Two sheets of numbers

Rebel - KGC

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Jun 15, 2007
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Reb,

With all do respects, I beleive that the 2nd War for Independence was financed by Stephen Girard, in around 1812. But I agree looking at those rich folk will get people on the right track. Also I like military records, you can find alot with them.

HH Tatty

NAW, 2nd War for Independence WAS the CONFEDERATE WAR (aka Civil War); NOTHING to do with War of 1812. "Google" OTHER names for the Civil War; another name I came across was Second American Revolution. GB (Great Britain) "sided" with the CSA, against the USA; & provided BRIT "loans" & wanted LOTS of cotton, which the NORTH had very little of.
 

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bigscoop

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NAW, 2nd War for Independence WAS the CONFEDERATE WAR (aka Civil War); NOTHING to do with War of 1812. "Google" OTHER names for the Civil War; another name I came across was Second American Revolution. GB (Great Britain) "sided" with the CSA, against the USA; & provided BRIT "loans" & wanted LOTS of cotton, which the NORTH had very little of.

Just exactly who was fighting in the name of "Independence" in that war? The slave states?
 

Rebel - KGC

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Just exactly who was fighting in the name of "Independence" in that war? The slave states?

LOL! It was a STATE RIGHTS thing! SOUTHERN states didn't have the INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION of NORTHERN STATES... "Freeing the slaves" came LATER in the CONFEDERATE WAR.
 

bigscoop

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LOL! It was a STATE RIGHTS thing! SOUTHERN states didn't have the INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION of NORTHERN STATES... "Freeing the slaves" came LATER in the CONFEDERATE WAR.

You said, the Confederate War was the 2nd war of Independence. So I asked, for who & how so? Actually, slavery became an issue way, way before the Civil War. Thomas Hart Benton even predicted the slave industry/issue becoming a major political component after the Adam's Onis Treaty was signed, and he was correct. Why did he know this? He knew this because A) he understood the economic value and importance of it, and, B) he knew many of the driving forces that were going to make it a political issue at every chance. The slave rebellion in Hati was just the first stone cast into the water, many could see the writing on the wall after this.
 

Rebel - KGC

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You said, the Confederate War was the 2nd war of Independence. So I asked, for who & how so? Actually, slavery became an issue way, way before the Civil War. Thomas Hart Benton even predicted the slave industry/issue becoming a major political component after the Adam's Onis Treaty was signed, and he was correct. Why did he know this? He knew this because A) he understood the economic value and importance of it, and, B) he knew many of the driving forces that were going to make it a political issue at every chance. The slave rebellion in Hati was just the first stone cast into the water, many could see the writing on the wall after this.

Maybe so... HOWEVER! It was a "demand/supply" kind of "matrix"; Europe wanted COTTON... ONLY the SOUTH (USA) could meet that "demand". The NORTH was MAINLY industrialized; the SOUTH could & did supply the needed "raw goods"; I am NOT "pro-slavery"... AM for STATE RIGHTS, and THAT is/was the MAIN issue. FED (Central Gov't) vs State Rights... even TJ was against FED/Central Gov't, being the FIRST... REBEL!
 

Rebel - KGC

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BUT! We are "OFF-TOPIC"; MORE interested in the two sheets of paper... a "map over-lay"?
m35?
 

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monroe35

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I have thought all along that it was a type of over-lay. But first I studied the prominent features of the valley to try to get a feel for what Beale was looking at. Most of my time walking the valley was done before the age of storage tanks, summer homes and subdivisions. The hardest part is locating the beginning point. Is it the chimney? A corner of the frame residence of Henry Buford? A corner of the mill which is constructed of stone and more durable? Or I suspect, a position on a survey of Buford's property - the original Patent or some survey as he acquired additions? Or the dower allotment? I thought someone said that the figures had been deciphered in 2001. If so, why no showing of progress or results? I have not seen any. Monroe35
 

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Rebel - KGC

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I have thought all along that it was a type of over-lay. But first I studied the prominent features of the valley to try to get a feel for what Beale was looking at. Most of my time walking the valley was done before the age of storage tanks, summer homes and subdivisions. The hardest part is locating the beginning point. Is it the chimney? A corner of the frame residence of Henry Buford? A corner of the mill which is constructed of stone and more durable? Or I suspect, a position on a survey of Buford's property - the original Patent or some survey as he acquired additions? Or the dower allotment? I thought someone said that the figures had been deciphered in 2001. If so, why no showing of progress or results? I have not seen any. Monroe35

If yer going by the "story", Buford's was THEN, "existing"; MY guess is that Buford's was the "starting" point, of which ONLY the chimney still remain... BUT! NOT for sure... COULD be Poplar Forest, Lynchburg, Va. (by 1885). Will look for "pic" of chimney (today's time).
 

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Rebel - KGC

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If yer going by the "story", Buford's was THEN, "existing"; MY guess is that Buford's was the "starting" point, of which ONLY the chimney still remain... BUT! NOT for sure... COULD be Poplar Forest, Lynchburg, Va. (by 1885). Will look for "pic" of chimney (today's time).

The "chimney" can be seen on this web-site... I remember this fellow from Germany. Wiebke Elzel : BealeTrail HH! ENJOY!
 

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monroe35

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You're most gracious I'lll check that site out. Many taverns or ordinaries began by (about every 20 miles) travelers stopping and asking for water, food or a place to sleep. Sleeping was usually on the ground or floor if available. So eventually a room was opened as a tap room then expanded. I'm attaching pictures of Buford's looking east and west. Looking east is a later picture. Looking west was taken in the early 80's. You can see a frame structure behind Paschal's brick home which is not there now. May have been the "rooming house" and chimney location was the cooking area and taproom. I will attach my drawing of how I would depict Bufords about 1817. Also I am attaching a few pictures of "Vann's Ordinary" (Cherokee) located in GA, but same time period. Check out the prices. Monroe35
 

Attachments

  • Bouford's, Montvale, VA, looking west.jpg
    Bouford's, Montvale, VA, looking west.jpg
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  • Buford's 1817.jpg
    Buford's 1817.jpg
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  • Buford's, Montvale, VA, looking east.jpg
    Buford's, Montvale, VA, looking east.jpg
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  • Vann - price list 1.pdf
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  • Vann Stoe price list - 2.pdf
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  • Vann Tavern 1.JPG
    Vann Tavern 1.JPG
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Rebel - KGC

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GREAT photo, looking west; the "slash" near the top of the mountain is the Blue Ridge Parkway, going towards Buford's Gap, Villamont, & Roanoke, Va. (on Rt. 460, west). In that "slash area" was ANOTHER "BT" site. HA! From what I can tell, BOTH "pics" look WEST (photo & drawing); the "drawing" faces the mountain (today - BRP), with the TWO "roads"; the Lynchburg-Salem Turnpike (aka Great Western Road), with the Fincastle Turnpike (aka Sweet Springs Road) heading northwest. The Fincastle Turnpike came by Buford's as a "rest area" before "heading" on to Lynchburg, Va. (EAST). The OTHER road goes north to Upper Goose Creek Valley, then NORTH to Buchanan, Va. & the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. The "middle" road goes to "Main Street" of Bufordsville/Montvale, Va. where MANY "shops" were... MY guess, is that the drawing is @ 1840's "era". I'm NOT sure about the creek with the bridge, tho... it COULD be Goose Creek... Goose Creek NORTH; then Goose Creek SOUTH, which "ran" by the base (foot) of Porter's Mountain, where ANOTHER "BT" site was found... DUNNO.
 

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Rebel - KGC

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Gotta do MORE R & I on Goose Creek; how it lays NORTH & SOUTH... I know MORE about Goose Creek SOUTH, than I do GC North. HA! Reason being that wife & I once lived near Goose Creek SOUTH, near OLD Moneta, Va. (Smith Mountain Lake "area")... AND! I DID find "carvings" on a boulder next to the creek... BUT! Didn't "fit" in the "BT" story, so NEVER "followed up". DANG!
 

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bigscoop

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Gotta do MORE R & I on Goose Creek; how it lays NORTH & SOUTH... I know MORE about Goose Creek SOUTH, than I do GC North. HA! Reason being that wife & I once lived near Goose Creek SOUTH, near OLD Moneta, Va. (Smith Mountain Lake "area")... AND! I DID find "carvings" on a boulder next to the creek... BUT! Didn't "fit" in the "BT" story, so NEVER "followed up". DANG!

Any fish in those creeks anymore?
 

franklin

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Those two pieces of paper is a "map" of the treasures location on the Blue Ridge Parkway. Deciphered years ago.
 

ECS

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... She said the papers were given to her and her husband by a family living in Roanoke, Va, and that they were old and had always been believed to be from Beale's iron box...
Note "had always been believed to be from Beale's iron box", and they were given the torn slip of numbers covered paper, but not the "iron box" by the Otey family.
Remember Pauline Innis stated that she was "not allowed" to photograph the iron box that was believed to be Beale's.
 

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