WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[bigscoop]

1741 John Paul Grimpke imported themto Charleston S.C. from around then on till present domestic jewelers were established. With stones available from blue ridge mtns, no find of diamond cutting in U.S. by machineanyway till well past Beale period
Previous to around mid 1700s,Diamonds from India and Brazil through Europe. Finished goods till some one began importing diamonds,or smuggling them around Europe's notice. Spain would have lost some to piracy too.

Question is; Who in St. Louis would have had the resources to arrange the exchange? "Old Bullion" had been instrumental in helping to establish a curious bank there, perhaps? But, this bank hardly lasted very long at all.

 

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[releventchair]

Chouteau fits time frame,wound up with little wealth in the end. Lisa was there too. Laclede died in 78 though being native french, influence may have affected Chouteau. Old diamonds would likely be from Europe,fresh when Brazil made them less rare.(924 people in St. Louis when transferred to U.S. in 1804.)

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I believe Long was back in St. Louis prior to his 1823 expedition. I don't have the info in front of me but I think he embarked on five expeditions total from 1817 through 1823.

"Google" Long Expeditions... (SW America?).

 

[bigscoop]

"Google" Long Expeditions... (SW America?).

Be sure you google "Stephen" and not "James".

 

[bigscoop]

I have reason to believe the two deposits in question were indeed a last resort for these desperate refugees. In the end it all came down to a matter of trust, which is why Morriss was given the iron box in confidence as an impartial/unbiased third party. The fact that his services were never required hints that perhaps everything worked out in the end. However, this may not be the case as there is at least one document to the contrary. The problem here is that the document isn't dated so I am uncertain if the claim was made prior to the end of the 10 year term or after?

 

[tat2guy]

Going by Stephen Long's records the BP story could not have happened. I have to find the person who wrote it but he was the botanist on the Stephen H Longs expiditions. There was major flooding in the Mississippi and Missouri valleys. So with this known how did they get the wagons back? Or are the dates wrong? This peice of evidence I ran across when I started looking into the BP. I have not touched the ciphers b/c I don't understand them. The historical research is what I've relied on. I do love looking at all this stuff. Thanks again for your inspiration guys.

P.S. I wrote the BP, I'm the unknown author lol

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Going by Stephen Long's records the BP story could not have happened. I have to find the person who wrote it but he was the botanist on the Stephen H Longs expiditions. There was major flooding in the Mississippi and Missouri valleys. So with this known how did they get the wagons back? Or are the dates wrong? This peice of evidence I ran across when I started looking into the BP. I have not touched the ciphers b/c I don't understand them. The historical research is what I've relied on. I do love looking at all this stuff. Thanks again for your inspiration guys.

P.S. I wrote the BP, I'm the unknown author lol

THAT explains EVERYTHING!

 

[ECS]

LONG-BELL EXPEDITION of 1820,federaly funded and sanctioned by Sec of War,John C Calhoun,as a scenitific exploration,but it was a coverup for its true purpose-a recon and intelligence of the Spanish Territory after the Adams-Onis Treaty.Led by Major Stephen H Long with Capt John R Bell as the journal writer of the mission,they traveled from the Red River to the Platte,to Manitou Springs and Pikes Peak,and Sante FE,all well within the Spanish Territory.There is NO mention of gold in Bell's journal.

Also included in this expedition party of 22 men,were a topographer,geologist,naturalist,botanist,zoologist,artist,7 military escorts and 8 guides and hunters.Long did made 5 expeditions,but this one has elements that resemble the TB Beale expedition of the pamphlet.
As noted,the true purpose of this expedition was intelligence gathering,mainly the presence of Spanish or any other forgein nationals in this territory.

 

[releventchair]

In James account of S.H. Long's expedition 1819-1820 volume 14 bystephen harriman long thomas say, it mentions an colonel Abert 25 years later following much of route with wagons (he started from bents fort) making the whole trip and other than a few places found smooth going. In contrast to "harrowing" account of 1820. Criticism too of lack of reporting and poor navigation. The party is said to have been provided by federal government, six of 34 horses,the members providing balance and equipage. They were credited with having equipment for latitude and longitude with knowledge of its use but report is of poor usage. Even elevation had generous errors.
Kind of a dispute about if they were as poorly equipped as claimed or the journey near as difficult. An example being the Abert retracing found plenty off decent water sources.
I,m not saying it should have been a cake walk for them but their account sounds like some of the rougher parts of lewis and clarks expedition. With possibility of time of year being a factor,the claim of near desert being a natural barrier too seems odd.
The result being a vague but negative and strange account. Not following rivers to sources or identifying rivers clashes with alleged orders. Makes it easier to question whole report.

 

[bigscoop]

It's interesting that all of the information is through American accounts/sources......when it can be found Spanish accounts and French accounts usually present much different perspectives, as one might expect. So goes the saying, "The truth seldom resides in what is written."

 

[bigscoop]

We know without any doubt that the timeline offered in the expedition portion of the Beale pamphlet story was impossible, unless you believe Beale could have been out west and in the east at the same time. The author made serious error here when attempting to detail the party's activities and travel. This is the first obvious evidence that the adventure portion of the tale is a complete fabrication. Denying this is like claiming there's no sun. So, "if" there really was a party and two deposits then where else could they have come from?

 

[releventchair]

Need twins to be two places at once. Adams Onis halted colonization by French, source of wealth if Spanish, at risk by repo.. Americans all ready politically turned there backs,so start a new colony,but where? Meanwhile secure what funding that was left. Along established distribution net work and to secure location of trusted partner. From there relocate it as events require when all pirates,i mean parties present. The dates between signing and ratification of treaty, when viewed as a threat to cause timed enough to halve and secure treasury. Galveston was prepared to end.

 

[bigscoop]

Need twins to be two places at once. Adams Onis halted colonization by French, source of wealth if Spanish, at risk by repo.. Americans all ready politically turned there backs,so start a new colony,but where? Meanwhile secure what funding that was left. Along established distribution net work and to secure location of trusted partner. From there relocate it as events require when all pirates,i mean parties present. The dates between signing and ratification of treaty, when viewed as a threat to cause timed enough to halve and secure treasury. Galveston was prepared to end.

In 1829 - 30 Joseph Bonaparte is in Richmond concluding some business matters prior to his preparing to depart the US, this even involves a letter of query in regards to payments for services rendered to James Monroe. The Laffite's are in Richmond as well, they're also concluding business affairs. The decision to finally give the cause up was made in 1824. The fact that Joseph left the US in "1832" leaves the suspicion that the 10 year term outlined in Beale Pamphlet was perhaps not only related to the original vine and olive colony grant, but that it may also had something to do with Bonaparte's advanced plans to leave the US? Ironically, upon his departure he and many of the Champ de Asile supporters end up in the same place.

 

[releventchair]

Reading some accounts gives a people with faith in the D.O.I. a place to live free. Fear of them by others ended it.

 

[bigscoop]

Reading some accounts gives a people with faith in the D.O.I. a place to live free. Fear of them by others ended it.

I think your last two post summarize the situation pretty well. And to add, those fears probably weren't unfounded.

It's probable that Lafayette was brought here in 1824, (just one year after the Monroe Doctrine), for additional reasons. Parading him around as they did served as display of the differences between the principles of both men and their existing factions. Bonaparte negotiated and arranged Lafayette's freedom from the British but even owing to that favor Lafayette refused Bonaparte's invitation to join his cause. It is in this same year, 1824, that abandoning the cause was decided. Coincidence? Perhaps, perhaps not.

 

[ECS]

We know without any doubt that the timeline offered in the expedition portion of the Beale pamphlet story was impossible, unless you believe Beale could have been out west and in the east at the same time. The author made serious error here when attempting to detail the party's activities and travel. This is the first obvious evidence that the adventure portion of the tale is a complete fabrication. Denying this is like claiming there's no sun.

It is obvious that Sherman and Ward were electic in their "borrowing" stories from many sources for the pamphlet.Besides the journals of the Long-Bell Expedition,there is "THE BEALE PAPERS" of 1850 by E F Bealle,the memoirs of Jean LaFitte,the 1823 silver discovery of James Cockrell,and the ciphers from Poe's "Gold Bug" and essays.
It all made for a great 1885 western dime novel with a treasure hunt thrown in to boost sales that continues until this day.

 

[ECS]

Who in St. Louis would have had the resources to arrange the exchange? "Old Bullion" had been instrumental in helping to establish a curious bank there, perhaps? But, this bank hardly lasted very long at all.

Looks like we are back to 6 degrees of T J Beale.
Sen Thomas Hart Benton ("Old Bullion")was pro western expansion,and financed the expeditions of his son-in-law,John C Freemont.Benton was in hard opposion to Sen John C Calhoon(who sanctioned the Long-Bell Expedition),and the only connection to Joseph Bonaparte was his cousin-in-law,Sen Henry Clay,who was a close friend of Bonaparte.
Then we are presented with Pierre Laclede,Augeste Chouteau,and Pierre Chouteau,St Louis French fur traders and merchants.Lewis & Clark did dine at the Chouteau's house and dried and stored their furs at Pierre Chouteau's warehouse,but there is NO connection to Beale or Bonaparte.

 

[bigscoop]

It is obvious that Sherman and Ward were electic in their "borrowing" stories from many sources for the pamphlet.Besides the journals of the Long-Bell Expedition,there is "THE BEALE PAPERS" of 1850 by E F Bealle,the memoirs of Jean LaFitte,the 1823 silver discovery of James Cockrell,and the ciphers from Poe's "Gold Bug" and essays.
It all made for a great 1885 western dime novel with a treasure hunt thrown in to boost sales that continues until this day.

Yes!...Yes!.....I'm sure that's it. And let's not forget to add that they were also in the perfect location to take further advantage of the CSA Treasury mystery simply by making mention of 1862 and the Civil War. "Jackson, Marshall, Clay, etc.",....what you say there? What was their ingenious, diabolical reasoning for including those names? That pamphlet made such good reading after all their effort to promote and sell their novel it sailed right to the top of the Best Seller's list. And, the ciphers, let's not forget the absolute genius required to create such a complicated and complex game that even the world's smartest and brightest failed to figure it out. I'm guessing, with such genius on their side that it only took them a weekend to create the first draft.

 

[ECS]

So,are you discounting the fact of coincidence between the various journal sources I listed and what appears in Ward's pamphlet?A long used device of writers is to include actual names and places in their novels.Sherman may have been the Clive Cusler of his time.

 

[bigscoop]

So,are you discounting the fact of coincidence between the various journal sources I listed and what appears in Ward's pamphlet?A long used device of writers is to include actual names and places in their novels.Sherman may have been the Clive Cusler of his time.

If I didn't know what I know today I'd probably say, "Dime novel." But there is also this to consider; why, whenever we can't seem to discover a source, do we insist on creating complicated and complex author scenarios to explain what we can't explain otherwise? i.e., we can't explain the ciphers and details of the story so let's see what kind of complicated and complex application/system/thinking the author used to stump us all so badly. If anything, all of this complex and complicated author calculation only serves to prove that he didn't just simply make the story up. Do you really think Ward or Sherman were as intelligent as many of these complicated, calculating, and complex explanations make them out to be? I don't.