WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850 - Page 2
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Thread: WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

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  1. #16
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    Again, wouldn't have needed a copy. By 1880 E. F. Beales exploits of 1850 were common knowledge. After the Adams Onis Treaty of 1821 there wasn't a whole lot that went on in the territory that didn't become news/common knowledge. Western expansion was one of the hottest and most focused on topics in the country after the treaty. By 1880 thousands of people had traveled west through the territory. Stories of gold and fortune and various exploits abounded everywhere back east by the 1880's. Railway routes were even being considered and planned. By the 1880's the floodgates to the west had long been wide open.
    Yes,the exploits of E F Beale would have been known in 1885,but would have everyone remembered E F or just remembered the name BEALE,35 years after the publishing of his journals?
    That also does not explain the simularity of events,words and terms,and sometimes exact sentences from the 1850 "THE BEALE PAPERS" that appear in Ward's pamphlet.
    This may not be the "smoking gun" you refer to in another thread,but it is A smoking gun.
    The "CAMEL CORPS" endeavor occured in 1856,6 years after E F Beale published his journal,and yes indeed,Beale was in charge of this.
    Camel driver,Haiji Ali (HI JOLLEY) is buried along with the ashes of the last army dromedary in Quartzsite,Arizona.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    You are right Rebel. He also was the first man that suggested the Inter-Continental Railroad. I might add Jefferson Davis also was the man that helped to make the rifled cannons so they could shoot farther and more accurate.
    Start researching all the correspondences on the subject. The "United States Government" had to pay for, and approve, these type of things. Even in the 1850's they didn't just hand their military over to a single man. If the big dogs would have said, "No" then E. F. Beale wouldn't have gone. And the notion of cross country railroads were first entertained by speculators and entrepreneurs but they had to get approval to build them over state and federal lands. Again, there was a lot of discussion and debating of these proposals at "various levels" of government. Not being contrary at all, just looking at the whole picture instead of the pieces.
    Last edited by bigscoop; Apr 01, 2013 at 08:40 PM.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    Start researching all the correspondences on the subject. The "United States Government" had to pay for, and approve, these type of things. Even in the 1850's they didn't just hand their military over to a single man. If the big dogs would have said, "No" then E. F. Beale wouldn't have gone. And the notion of cross country railroads were first entertained by speculators and entrepreneurs but they had to get approval to build them over state and federal lands. Again, there was a lot of discussion and debating of these proposals at "various levels" of government. Not being contrary at all, just looking at the whole picture instead of the pieces.
    And the WHOLE "picture" to YOU is...?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    And the WHOLE "picture" to YOU is...?
    The entire scope of things. All too often we focus on the strengths within a notion and we ignore the weaknesses.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    The entire scope of things. All too often we focus on the strengths within a notion and we ignore the weaknesses.
    LOL! WHAT is the "entire scope of things" to YOU...?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    LOL! WHAT is the "entire scope of things" to YOU...?
    I try to evaluate everything like a courtroom, playing both prosecutor and defense attorney, not just the prosecutor.
    audigger53 and 45th_Johnny like this.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    I try to evaluate everything like a courtroom, playing both prosecutor and defense attorney, not just the prosecutor.
    LOL! Too VAGUE... is the Beale Treasure story on "Death Row" for YOU, then...?

  8. #23
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    I would have to say that the Beale papers are far from dead to any of us on here, or we wouldn't be here. I think finding some of the normal everyday things about the men in the party and their lives is key to. There's nothing known about a small party of men (30'ish) missing or being missed that any of us have found, correct? I believe the time frame given in the pamphlet is correct. So why would people not look for this party? Maybe because their not missing? Are they where their supposed to be? I think so. But time for more R&I

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    LOL! Too VAGUE... is the Beale Treasure story on "Death Row" for YOU, then...?
    No, not at all. In fact, as of late I am inspired more then ever regarding the "possibility" that the story in the Beale Pamphlet "may" have actually occurred. As you've obviously noticed, in the last year or so I was leaning pretty heavily that the story was probably just a fictional, at best, so obviously new information has come forth recently to change my position on that. Right now all I can tell you is that it's only when we start looking in different places that we may start to find different answers. Recently our searching has been by way of entirely new avenues we had yet to explore. I have always held the position that the Beale story could not have taken place "just as it was described" in the pamphlet, however, today I am "nearly convinced" that it was entirely possible, if not even likely. So is it a dead horse? No. It's just a different horse then any I have ridden before.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    No, not at all. In fact, as of late I am inspired more then ever regarding the "possibility" that the story in the Beale Pamphlet "may" have actually occurred. As you've obviously noticed, in the last year or so I was leaning pretty heavily that the story was probably just a fictional, at best, so obviously new information has come forth recently to change my position on that. Right now all I can tell you is that it's only when we start looking in different places that we may start to find different answers. Recently our searching has been by way of entirely new avenues we had yet to explore. I have always held the position that the Beale story could not have taken place "just as it was described" in the pamphlet, however, today I am "nearly convinced" that it was entirely possible, if not even likely. So is it a dead horse? No. It's just a different horse then any I have ridden before.
    TROJAN Horse, eh...?
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  11. #26
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    In fact, as of late I am inspired more then ever regarding the "possibility" that the story in the Beale Pamphlet "may" have actually occurred... Right now all I can tell you is that it's only when we start looking in different places that we may start to find different answers. Recently our searching has been by way of entirely new avenues we had yet to explore. I have always held the position that the Beale story could not have taken place "just as it was described" in the pamphlet, however, today I am "nearly convinced" that it was entirely possible, if not even likely...
    One avenue to search: Is there ANY evidence outside of the BEALE PAMPHLET that the mention treasure exists?
    Everyone seems to play six degrees of separation from either Beale or Morriss,adding a name here another suspect there....but where is the historical evidence that the treasure was real or ever existed?

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    One avenue to search: Is there ANY evidence outside of the BEALE PAMPHLET that the mention treasure exists?
    Everyone seems to play six degrees of separation from either Beale or Morriss,adding a name here another suspect there....but where is the historical evidence that the treasure was real or ever existed?
    HART PAPERS has story of TREASURE buried in Bedford County, VIRGINA. It is story of two Treasure Hunters (HART Bros) from Roanoke, Va. WITHOUT the BE "era" story, and CIPHERS very similar to BC # 1, 2, & 3 (NUMBERS were slightly changed). READ that story... it IS "on-line". JB Ward was interviewed, copy was found of the BP... INTERESTING "read".
    Last edited by Rebel - KGC; Apr 12, 2013 at 06:54 AM.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    One avenue to search: Is there ANY evidence outside of the BEALE PAMPHLET that the mention treasure exists?
    Everyone seems to play six degrees of separation from either Beale or Morriss,adding a name here another suspect there....but where is the historical evidence that the treasure was real or ever existed?
    This was my main course of research for several years and in that time I was only able to find a handful of references of a large shipment of wealth coming from west to east. Of these, only three were within the time period described in the Beale Pamphlet. Ironically, all three of them fell within the same two or three year period. 1818 - 1821. One of these references one was from the southwest, while the other two were from the general region the Beale party was said to have traveled. And then there is one other reference during the period, an expedition that entered the "exact" same region described in the Beale Pamphlet, though there is no direct reference to wealth. Of all these references only one provided additional sources, or additional recorded mention. However, one thing that did become quite obvious during all of this research is that there were a lot of white men traveling into the region even when it was still under Spanish control, contrary to the age old belief that the Spanish imprisoned "everyone" and ruled the region with an iron fist. Fact is, there were "very few" Spanish resources in the region and passage was more common then previously believed.
    audigger53 and 45th_Johnny like this.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  14. #29
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    ... I was only able to find a handful of references of a large shipment of wealth coming from west to east. Of these, only three were within the time period described in the Beale Pamphlet. Ironically, all three of them fell within the same two or three year period. 1818 - 1821. One of these references one was from the southwest, while the other two were from the general region the Beale party was said to have traveled. And then there is one other reference during the period, an expedition that entered the "exact" same region described in the Beale Pamphlet, though there is no direct reference to wealth. Of all these references only one provided additional sources, or additional recorded mention...
    Still NO substantial HARD evidence that the Beale treasure ever existed-just additional speculative facts that "MIGHT" fit the pamphlet tale.

  15. #30
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    The Beale Treasure, all types of treasure hunting
    Its a fact that a DOI came out of a sealed compartment of a iron Boxand has TJB on it,and has maps of Bedford County. Believe what you want to,thats kool,but its real.Justsayn Justintime
    45th_Johnny likes this.

 

 
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