WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[bigscoop]

Much of this information already appears on this forum in other, older threads. However, this is a very complex set of circumstances that there is just no easy answer for. To fully understand the entire situation and all of the circumstances would take volumes of material. If you have not read the chronology of events outlined in the Fifth Generation now might be a good time to do that.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Much of this information already appears on this forum in other, older threads. However, this is a very complex set of circumstances that there is just no easy answer for. To fully understand the entire situation and all of the circumstances would take volumes of material. If you have not read the chronology of events outlined in the Fifth Generation now might be a good time to do that.

Brad Andrew's paper...?

 

[bigscoop]

Brad Andrew's paper...?

Yep, the relationship of the deposit dates and the signing and ratification of the Adam's Onis Treaty. Once you find this section, then insert the dates when Lallemand left Texas and Laffite left Texas. A word of caution in all of this....you're going to encounter several different accounts in regards to these events and you're also going to encounter a fair amount of conflict in the details. This is why we decided that we had to start tracking all of the possible documented sources, which has been a couple of mountains worth of paper trail, to say the least. In short, the enterprise that was engaged had a treasury, part of this treasury was deposited when the French refugees left Camp de Asile, the other half was deposited when Laffite left Galveston Island. Hence, "Keeping to their (prior/pre-arranged) promise to distribute the gold to the indicated places." There are some older threads here in the Beale forum that discuss a great deal of this stuff.

One other thing, in order to draw a clearer picture of what was really taking place in all of this is going to require a great deal of research beginning with the Louisiana Purchase and the conflicts in Europe and many revolts throughout the period.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Yep, the relationship of the deposit dates and the signing and ratification of the Adam's Onis Treaty. Once you find this section, then insert the dates when Lallemand left Texas and Laffite left Texas. A word of caution in all of this....you're going to encounter several different accounts in regards to these events and you're also going to encounter a fair amount of conflict in the details. This is why we decided that we had to start tracking all of the possible documented sources, which has been a couple of mountains worth of paper trail, to say the least. In short, the enterprise that was engaged had a treasury, part of this treasury was deposited when the French refugees left Camp de Asile, the other half was deposited when Laffite left Galveston Island. Hence, "Keeping to their (prior/pre-arranged) promise to distribute the gold to the indicated places." There are some older threads here in the Beale forum that discuss a great deal of this stuff.

One other thing, in order to draw a clearer picture of what was really taking place in all of this is going to require a great deal of research beginning with the Louisiana Purchase and the conflicts in Europe and many revolts throughout the period.

Good Luck with THAT! Get a University Prof "on this". DO NOT have the time.

 

[bigscoop]

Good Luck with THAT! Get a University Prof "on this". DO NOT have the time.

...yep, Tat, myself and a few others I have been at it for at least a couple years now, a couple of us even much longer. One of the things we realized a while back was this, "Noway is one individual going to be able to follow all of the possible leads and sort through all of the required documents and materials by himself."

To give you an idea, just pick a name out of the Laffite Memoirs and ask Tat what he knows about that person. Chances are if there were any records on that person "anywhere" Tat can probably recite the info from memory.

 

[ECS]

Much of this information already appears on this forum in other, older threads. However, this is a very complex set of circumstances that there is just no easy answer for. To fully understand the entire situation and all of the circumstances would take volumes of material. If you have not read the chronology of events outlined in the Fifth Generation now might be a good time to do that.

I am aware of the "Fifth Generation".
When you mentioned George Graham and Galveston I thought that the T J Beale as the dark handsome man was really Jean Laffite theory was being proposed.

 

[ECS]

Yep, the relationship of the deposit dates and the signing and ratification of the Adam's Onis Treaty. Once you find this section, then insert the dates when Lallemand left Texas and Laffite left Texas. A word of caution in all of this....you're going to encounter several different accounts in regards to these events and you're also going to encounter a fair amount of conflict in the details.. In short, the enterprise that was engaged had a treasury, part of this treasury was deposited when the French refugees left Camp de Asile, the other half was deposited when Laffite left Galveston Island. Hence, "Keeping to their (prior/pre-arranged) promise to distribute the gold to the indicated places."...

One other thing, in order to draw a clearer picture of what was really taking place in all of this is going to require a great deal of research beginning with the Louisiana Purchase and the conflicts in Europe and many revolts throughout the period.

...OR,John William Sherman,dime novel treasure writer and his cousin,J B Ward,used the journals of Edward Fitzgerald Beale and Capt John R Bell,the Memoirs of Jean Lafitte,and "Gold Bug" story of Poe,to create a novel with a fabricated "real" treasure hunt with one decoded cipher as the selling hook.

 

[bigscoop]

...OR,John William Sherman,dime novel treasure writer and his cousin,J B Ward,used the journals of Edward Fitzgerald Beale and Capt John R Bell,the Memoirs of Jean Lafitte,and "Gold Bug" story of Poe,to create a novel with a fabricated "real" treasure hunt with one decoded cipher as the selling hook.

From the very start of our joint effort we were very open to the notion that the Pamphlet was just a dime novel, in fact, I'm sure Tat will tell you that I was fairly convinced this was the case and that I wasn't all that eager to get too involved again. Even throughout the process there were times when I was nearly ready to concede to the notion again. So while I fully understand the point you just made, and your reasons for making that point, I am less convinced today that this tale isn't "related to" a series of true events, though not entirely presented with exact accuracy by design.

 

[bigscoop]

but you can not get factual information enter-woved within a dime novel to the extent of people places and events that some people knew nothing about.

Unfortunately, this isn't true. One of the things we learned early in our joint efforts is that there are a number of collections with the greatest portion of the content still having been unsearched. These are huge piles of paper that have literally been stuffed into boxes without the slightest clue as to what is in them, just a reference number on the box so the general source is known, and quite often this isn't even known. We are amazed at the amount of unsearched paperwork that is still sitting in these numerous collections. One such that we are aware of is absolutely huge, say the size of an entire library. France, Spain, and Mexico, in most cases only a fraction of what they have in storage has been gone through, many private collections are also sitting in this same state. Having said all this, yes, it is possible to find what others have not found but you won't find it by yourself because the field is far too vast for one man to search in several lifetimes. Several researchers working together can cover a lot more territory. There is great advantage in numbers.

 

[tat2guy]

March 3,1817,the US Congress passed a bill offering land to French settlers in Texas.This was during the time George Graham was US Sec of War.When John C Calhoun became Sec of War,Graham stayed on as a "special agent" and made the trip to Galveston to meet with Jean Laffite and Bonapatists General Charles Lallemand.
Champ d' Asile was founded by Lammemand in 1818,and also on Jan 14,1818,150 would be settlers arrived in Texas from Phliadelphia.
The Philadelphia and National Bank connection appears to lead to Stephen Girard,and I have noted Girard's connection to the Lallemond family.
Arlingtoncemetary.net: The Leading Arlington Cemetery Site on the Net
Graham is buried at Arlington,and there is an essay on him at this site.

You seem to be up on this peice of history and putting it together with the Lafitte Memoirs. So help me with a question/problem. ECS I challenge you to find something that has been a thorn in my side. Keep in mind this is a friendly challenge so we all can see the end of this historical treasure hunt. Please tell me and the others where George Graham stopped and who he met with on his return trip to Washington. Good luck and may the force be with you.

HH Jay

 

[ECS]

You seem to be up on this peice of history and putting it together with the Lafitte Memoirs. So help me with a question/problem. ECS I challenge you to find something that has been a thorn in my side. Keep in mind this is a friendly challenge so we all can see the end of this historical treasure hunt. Please tell me and the others where George Graham stopped and who he met with on his return trip to Washington. Good luck and may the force be with you.

HH Jay

Are you refering to his ATAKAPA indian visit for a dysentary cure or the allegded meeting with Stephen Girard?
It seems that every historical trail followed to put Beale in a historical reference leads to another trip down the rabbit hole to a lost highway the ends at the yellow brick road and back to the rabbit hole on a mobius trip.
Many pieces seem to fit,but are NEVER quite right.

 

[bigscoop]

It seems that every historical trail followed to put Beale in a historical reference leads to another trip down the rabbit hole to a lost highway the ends at the yellow brick road and back to the rabbit hole on a mobius trip.
Many pieces seem to fit,but are NEVER quite right.

And I will have to agree with that analogy, as I'm sure Tat will too, during the trip that has indeed been the case a hundred times over.

 

[tat2guy]

Graham goes to Galveston and meets with some of the insurgents, Lafitte, Llamend and others. Llamend left when Graham did. But graham made many stops on his return trip. But where did he go between Galveston and Washington? Who did graham visit? After graham returns he writes a congressional report. Who went with Graham on this trip? Why was it necessary for Graham to meet the insurgents? Why was it not a military operation?

Please help lol

HH Jay

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Graham goes to Galveston and meets with some of the insurgents, Lafitte, Llamend and others. Llamend left when Graham did. But graham made many stops on his return trip. But where did he go between Galveston and Washington? Who did graham visit? After graham returns he writes a congressional report. Who went with Graham on this trip? Why was it necessary for Graham to meet the insurgents? Why was it not a military operation?

Please help lol

HH Jay

I think it had to with the TEXICANS... ppl living in Spanish/Mexican TEXAS. Aka TEXIANS...

 

[ECS]

Graham goes to Galveston and meets with some of the insurgents, Lafitte, Llamend and others. Llamend left when Graham did. But graham made many stops on his return trip. But where did he go between Galveston and Washington? Who did graham visit? After graham returns he writes a congressional report. Who went with Graham on this trip? Why was it necessary for Graham to meet the insurgents? Why was it not a military operation?

Please help lol

HH Jay

We know the purpose of the meeting with Lafitte was to get the French on Galveston to accept US law.
We know Graham'n report was NOT favorable to Lafitte's colony.
We know Lt Kearny made have been on a military operation if Lafitte did not agree to his terms.
We know Kearny first met with Capt James Campbell (one of Lafitte's pirates,mentioned in the memoirs in my above post,and husband to Mary Sabinal Campbell),before talking to Lafitte about leaving Galveston.
Now on to George Graham.The answer to your questions may be found in essays written by Wendell Lindsey of Lake Charles,Louisana.Lindsey's wife was the grand daughter of George Graham,and all his papers were kept and passed down through the family.He wrote extensive essays on Graham and Lafitte,and the outcome of these events,-BUT I have not been able to access these essays.Are they now at an university or college library?
Then again,this could be another journey down the rabbit hole.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

"Google" Graham Papers (Louisiana)...

 

[bigscoop]

The French and Laffite and the U.S. This all becomes quite a complicated issue of sorts. Kind of like unofficially working together with different long term goals, or perhaps more accurately, tolerating each other out of necessity.

 

[tat2guy]

George mason graham of Richmond is who you need to look at. I've found what the Spanish wrote and its very interesting. I need to find the US version before I share though. This coincides with what was written about that famous camp in Liberty. But if you have to know before I share look in Seville. Graham's report was to cover his rearend ( cya ), ya know. Did you read the congressional report? Interesting! If not you need to! Then you need to look at some other key people; Stephen Girard, James Madison, just to name a few. Now use some of Franklins info on the BP and look at the western expiditions between 1800-1830. Then find where their at today. Don't forget to look at the maps, especially those provided by BigScoop. Know look at the photos from Justintime and read Lafittes memoirs then William Davis's Pirates LFitte. You will start to see things being laid out prior to the deposits.

Now another bit of info that interest me that I haven't found. For those of you who can easily access the jones library, why does it show that Button never sold the paper to Sherman or Ward?

HH Jay

 

[Rebel - KGC]

George mason graham of Richmond is who you need to look at. I've found what the Spanish wrote and its very interesting. I need to find the US version before I share though. This coincides with what was written about that famous camp in Liberty. But if you have to know before I share look in Seville. Graham's report was to cover his rearend ( cya ), ya know. Did you read the congressional report? Interesting! If not you need to! Then you need to look at some other key people; Stephen Girard, James Madison, just to name a few. Now use some of Franklins info on the BP and look at the western expiditions between 1800-1830. Then find where their at today. Don't forget to look at the maps, especially those provided by BigScoop. Know look at the photos from Justintime and read Lafittes memoirs then William Davis's Pirates LFitte. You will start to see things being laid out prior to the deposits.

Now another bit of info that interest me that I haven't found. For those of you who can easily access the jones library, why does it show that Button never sold the paper to Sherman or Ward?

HH Jay

Button sold paper BRIEFLY, I think... to Sherman; Sherman NEVER had paper long enough to be considered a owner/manager; there were SEVERAL newspapers in Lynchburg, Va. at that time, I think... VERY BRIEF "ownership". JML is CLOSED on Mondays... do R & I "on-line".

 

[tat2guy]

I saw that thru an online site about Virginia's newspapers. Just found it odd not to see Sherman mentioned.