WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850 - Page 51
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Thread: WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

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  1. #751

    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    Well, I hope you fellas get it all figured out and eventually find that smoking gun. I'm 100% confident each of you will to your own satisfaction.
    YOU BETCHA!
    franklin likes this.

  2. #752

    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Silver View Post
    But there's a real possibility than one of those Thomas Beales that we know existed had a middle name that started with J. We have no proof, but we have to consider it a possibility.

    As far as the spelling of the name Beale...Beal...Beall, etc., old records are full of multiple spellings for the same surname. Exact spellings and even exact dates are not always accurate, or consistent in old record.
    TWO Thomas Beales; Thomas Beale, Sr. & Thomas Beale, Jr.; Thomas Beale, Jr.'s name was used... Thomas, Jr. Beale = Thomas J. Beale... SEE...? ONLY IN THE HART PAPERS!
    Last edited by Rebel - KGC; Nov 24, 2014 at 07:01 AM.
    franklin likes this.

  3. #753
    Old Silver
    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    TWO Thomas Beales; Thomas Beale, Sr. & Thomas Beale, Jr.; Thomas Beale, Jr.'s name was used... Thomas, Jr. Beale = Thomas J. Beale... SEE...? ONLY IN THE HART PAPERS!
    Could be. Actually there is another Thomas J. Beale who could have passably been the son, but I'm not sure. There seems to be some dispute on Jr's birth date.

  4. #754
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
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    I seriously doubt the author continued to use an inaccurate spelling of the main character's name. If this is the case then why on earth would anyone hold any value or accuracy in anything else the author wrote? This is the main character, the guy the book is all about, "Thomas J. Beale".

    In the very beginning of the book we are asked to make the "connexion" which is French Creole. This is the only time this spelling is used.

    "Thomas J." = "Thomas Jefferson", the author of the DOI. "Beale" = handsome, beauty, when used as a French name. "and I thought him the handsomest man I had ever seen. Altogether, he was a model of manly beauty, favored by the ladies and envied by men....."

    Your author is referencing "Thomas Jefferson/Beale", or = U.S./French.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Notice this cartoon, 1816 I believe, so the theory I've been suggesting to you isn't a new one. In essence this cartoon is suggesting that Napoleon has stung Jefferson, forcing him to puke up gold coins for the property the puppet master (Tallyrand) is using as bait. Ironically, who was right back in Texas beginning in 1816 and who got an immediate land grant in 1817 to start their vine & olive colony? This is what your Beale Pamphlet is all about. But unless you understand the politics involved you'll never grasp the theory. This cartoon is accurate in what it suggest.
    Last edited by bigscoop; Nov 24, 2014 at 08:00 AM.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  5. #755

    Jun 2007
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    13727 times
    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    I seriously doubt the author continued to use an inaccurate spelling of the main character's name. If this is the case then why on earth would anyone hold any value or accuracy in anything else the author wrote? This is the main character, the guy the book is all about, "Thomas J. Beale".

    In the very beginning of the book we are asked to make the "connexion" which is French Creole. This is the only time this spelling is used.

    "Thomas J." = "Thomas Jefferson", the author of the DOI. "Beale" = handsome, beauty, when used as a French name. "and I thought him the handsomest man I had ever seen. Altogether, he was a model of manly beauty, favored by the ladies and envied by men....."

    Your author is referencing "Thomas Jefferson/Beale", or = U.S./French.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	cartoon.jpg 
Views:	104 
Size:	182.2 KB 
ID:	1083740
    Being written, & released in 1885; WHO knows...?
    franklin likes this.

  6. #756
    Old Silver
    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    I seriously doubt the author continued to use an inaccurate spelling of the main character's name. If this is the case then why on earth would anyone hold any value or accuracy in anything else the author wrote? This is the main character, the guy the book is all about, "Thomas J. Beale".

    In the very beginning of the book we are asked to make the "connexion" which is French Creole. This is the only time this spelling is used.

    "Thomas J." = "Thomas Jefferson", the author of the DOI. "Beale" = handsome, beauty, when used as a French name. "and I thought him the handsomest man I had ever seen. Altogether, he was a model of manly beauty, favored by the ladies and envied by men....."

    Your author is referencing "Thomas Jefferson/Beale", or = U.S./French.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	cartoon.jpg 
Views:	104 
Size:	182.2 KB 
ID:	1083740

    Notice this cartoon, 1816 I believe, so the theory I've been suggesting to you isn't a new one. In essence this cartoon is suggesting that Napoleon has stung Jefferson, forcing him to puke up gold coins for the property the puppet master (Tallyrand) is using as bait. Ironically, who was right back in Texas beginning in 1816 and who got an immediate land grant in 1817 to start their vine & olive colony? This is what your Beale Pamphlet is all about. But unless you understand the politics involved you'll never grasp the theory. This cartoon is accurate in what it suggest.
    If you've done much genealogy, you know that surnames sometimes have alternate spellings, many times disputed as which one is correct. This exists in my own family, on both sides. And mine is not the only one. The things you're saying may well be right, I don't dispute that. Just saying that our Beale's name could have had a J in it.

  7. #757
    Old Silver
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Silver View Post
    Could be. Actually there is another Thomas J. Beale who could have passably been the son, but I'm not sure. There seems to be some dispute on Jr's birth date.
    I'm wrong about this guy possibly being Beale JR., as the birth date is 1822. But his name was Thomas J. Beale.

  8. #758
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Silver View Post
    I'm wrong about this guy possibly being Beale JR., as the birth date is 1822. But his name was Thomas J. Beale.
    Consider this....thousands of researchers have scoured records for more then 125 years since the pamphlet's publication...."still no Thomas J. Beale to fill the billing." Why? And it is way unlikely that the author got his intended name wrong. He is the main focus of the book, the most important subject in the book.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  9. #759

    Jun 2007
    21,268
    13727 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Silver View Post
    I'm wrong about this guy possibly being Beale JR., as the birth date is 1822. But his name was Thomas J. Beale.
    BEALE PAPERS was written in 1885; STILL possible... what cha got...?
    franklin likes this.

  10. #760
    Charter Member
    us
    "WP"

    May 2012
    12,354
    19190 times
    Beal Ave. Named after a Mexican American war hero?. A good location and central between many destinations. One account claims Bourbon street down river had a renter who ran a pattern shop. Wood ones for foundry.
    His sons used it as a meeting place. Jean and allegedly cross eyed Pierre though both considered handsome.
    Last edited by releventchair; Nov 24, 2014 at 09:28 AM.

  11. #761
    Old Silver
    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    Consider this....thousands of researchers have scoured records for more then 125 years since the pamphlet's publication...."still no Thomas J. Beale to fill the billing." Why? And it is way unlikely that the author got his intended name wrong. He is the main focus of the book, the most important subject in the book.
    It wouldn't be getting the name wrong exactly, just an alternate spelling. That's a common thing.
    There are Thomas J. Beals close to the right time, but I haven't found any that's exactly right.

  12. #762
    Old Silver
    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    BEALE PAPERS was written in 1885; STILL possible... what cha got...?
    There's a Thomas J. Beale that died in Oregon in 1885. He was born in 1822, but I don't know where.
    Then there's a Thomas J. Beale who was born in VA 1826 and died in CA 1884.

  13. #763
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Silver View Post
    It wouldn't be getting the name wrong exactly, just an alternate spelling. That's a common thing.
    There are Thomas J. Beals close to the right time, but I haven't found any that's exactly right.
    If it's one thing the author is going to get right, it's going to be the correct/intended spelling of the main character's name. Yes, alternate spellings were common, but in this case, as the main character in a story, the correct/accurate spelling of this name is everything.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  14. #764
    Old Silver
    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    If it's one thing the author is going to get right, it's going to be the correct/intended spelling of the main character's name. Yes, alternate spellings were common, but in this case, as the main character in a story, the correct/accurate spelling of this name is everything.
    The author may not have had any way of knowing what the correct spelling was. There are disagreements over these things, even between people who share the name.

  15. #765
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
    13,994
    8657 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Silver View Post
    The author may not have had any way of knowing what the correct spelling was. There are disagreements over these things, even between people who share the name.
    Just saying, "if" Morriss knew him well, even had his name in a guest register, then that name was known and passed on correctly. But even if not, you're still banking on the assumption that thousands of researchers, both professional and armature, having been unable to find the right Beale, Beall, etc., in 135 years of searching. I think this should tell us a lot about Thomas J. Beale. I think it tells us that he never existed in real person. If he had, with so many looking, he would have been found and identified by now.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

 

 
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