WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850 - Page 53
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Thread: WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

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  1. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Silver View Post
    bigscoop, you keep accusing people of changing things about the story, but didn't you change the story yourself, by saying the hunting party didn't really happen, but was a possible cover story for something else? Isn't that creating an entirely different tale? I tend to agree with that possibility, btw. No one is changing anything, just considering possibilities. If we don't consider possibilities, how will we ever find out anything? And judging by what I know of the past, I can tell you that alternate spellings of names is no great reason for concern.
    I believe I've used "we" in a lot of those statements. And I believe I've allowed one basic change that I'm aware of and that being the possible alternate source and true cause.

    And if you want to believe that the author made such a grave error in the spelling of the vital character's name then go ahead. But you still won't find a good suspect, just as the thousands of quality researchers before you have been unable to do.

    Nothing new can be found unless we look in new places. Rehashing the same old dirt isn't going to bring about anything new because there's nothing new there left to be found. Ward, Hutter, etc., etc.,.....there's no skin left on these mauled bones.
    Last edited by bigscoop; Nov 25, 2014 at 07:48 AM.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  2. #782
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    ... So which is it, dime novel or CSA coverup? ...

    As far as a "good mix" of family sources, could be right, but still just another theory in the long list of theories...still nothing conclusive.

    ...it was either a simple dime novel or a U.S./French thing that actually took place in the era described.
    A "good mix" of family sources that lived real history in that era,and in the case of William Clark,married into the extended family,made history in that era.
    Baseing the US/French thing on "connexion",the fitting historical events to make the case,is a longer stretch than grabbing the "2nd year of the Confederate War" reference.
    Is it possible that the French "connexion" could the copy of Vattles LAW OF NATIONS,given to CSA Major E S Hutter by CSA Sec of State Judah P Benjamin at Danville,April 1865?Vattles was used as a Confederate codebook,and was printed in both English and French,and the 1885 Beale Papers were published 20 years after the "Confederate War",and after the end of Reconstruction.
    Now if a treasure still existed,the United States government would hold claim to any and all remaining assets of the Confederate treasury,but hold NO claim on a 1820's hunting party treasure.
    Dime novel or coverup?Could be both.

  3. #783
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    ...

    Nothing new can be found unless we look in new places. Rehashing the same old dirt isn't going to bring about anything new because there's nothing new there left to be found. Ward, Hutter, etc., etc.,.....there's no skin left on these mauled bones.
    The same can be stated about Vine & Olive,Champ d' Asile,Jean LaFitte,Lallemand,etc.The Beale treasure tale revolves around Bedford county,Virginia,and was for sale only in Lynchberg,20 years after the "Confederate War".The 1820 dates may well be a "red herring",for the uninformed concerning actual events of the "2nd year of the Confederate War"

  4. #784
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    Do you even know who was in Richmond during the second year of the confederate war? Are you aware that there exist "actual documents" alleging the very payoffs described in the Beale Papers? And last, are you aware that until the signing and ratification of Adam's Onis Treaty that famous Louisiana Purchase was left in dispute and without clear borders? Ironically, the dates of this historic and critical event correspond exactly with the dates offered in the Beale Pamphlet. So in essence, the Louisiana Purchase wasn't even complete and it's boundaries in the west completely uncertain until the ratification of the Adam's Onis Treaty. And as for the deposits in question, look really close as to when they were said to have been made.....how do those deposit dates correlate with the signing and ratification of that critical treaty? They were made like clockwork, very timely. This is all fact, not fiction and unfounded speculation. There wasn't even a defined west until the Adams Onis Treaty.

    And yes, many of these key people were in Richmond and the Bedford region throughout the entire period, again, all documented. So I think one needs to be careful when throwing the word "uninformed" around. I'm well versed on the events of the civil war which is why I've discounted it as being even a remote possibility as to the source. You have to go beyond the interent and books to find accurate history, this means you have to spend countless hours in various archives and collections. You'd be surprised at what is out there. Having said all of this....Thomas Jefferson's Louisiana Purchase never even came to be realized until the Adam's Onis Treaty and this was achieved with the help of the French, French who were very well acquainted with Lynchburg, Richmond, and Bedford county. I'll bet you've never even seen the documents concerning Grandpa Risque and his association to these Frenchmen and various mining interest. But they are there and he was involved. This isn't "makeup", this is real documented history. Sorry it isn't consistent with all the local myth and lore.
    Last edited by bigscoop; Nov 25, 2014 at 01:22 PM.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  5. #785

    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    Do you even know who was in Richmond during the second year of the confederate war? Are you aware that there exist "actual documents" alleging the very payoffs described in the Beale Papers? And last, are you aware that until the signing and ratification of Adam's Onis Treaty that famous Louisiana Purchase was left in dispute and without clear borders? Ironically, the dates of this historic and critical event correspond exactly with the dates offered in the Beale Pamphlet. So in essence, the Louisiana Purchase wasn't even complete and it's boundaries in the west completely uncertain until the ratification of the Adam's Onis Treaty. And as for the deposits in question, look really close as to when they were said to have been made.....how do those deposit dates correlate with the signing and ratification of that critical treaty? They were made like clockwork, very timely. This is all fact, not fiction and unfounded speculation. There wasn't even a defined west until the Adams Onis Treaty.

    And yes, many of these key people were in Richmond and the Bedford region throughout the entire period, again, all documented. So I think one needs to be careful when throwing the word "uninformed" around. I'm well versed on the events of the civil war which is why I've discounted it as being even a remote possibility as to the source. You have to go beyond the interent and books to find accurate history, this means you have to spend countless hours in various archives and collections. You'd be surprised at what is out there. Having said all of this....Thomas Jefferson's Louisiana Purchase never even came to be realized until the Adam's Onis Treaty and this was achieved with the help of the French, French who were very well acquainted with Lynchburg, Richmond, and Bedford county. I'll bet you've never even seen the documents concerning Grandpa Risque and his association to these Frenchmen and various mining interest. But they are there and he was involved. This isn't "makeup", this is real documented history. Sorry it isn't consistent with all the local myth and lore.
    "REAL documented history" is WHERE...?
    franklin likes this.

  6. #786
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    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    "REAL documented history" is WHERE...?
    Exactly! ......j/k
    Last edited by bigscoop; Nov 25, 2014 at 04:08 PM.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  7. #787

    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    Exactly! ......j/k
    YOU DON'T have it, then...? (Post # 864)
    franklin likes this.

  8. #788
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    It's funny how all this talk of factional events is missing IMO one of the best story that was very similar to the BP. That's the one that connects to Bedford county and the Risqué family. A hunting party of about 30 is massacred. I know I'm
    Missing something. But the families petitioned congress over it. Have you guys missed this? Reb I know you know this one. Fill in some blanks if I missed something

    HH Jay

  9. #789
    Old Silver
    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    And if you want to believe that the author made such a grave error in the spelling of the vital character's name then go ahead. But you still won't find a good suspect, just as the thousands of quality researchers before you have been unable to do.

    Nothing new can be found unless we look in new places.
    I don't think it would be a grave mistake. If someone were to write about me today, they would spell my last name with a letter on the end that was not originally there when spelled by my ancestors. Now do you actually think that the writer would go back into the past to find that out? Why would he, unless that would have a bearing on the story he's writing? Otherwise, no writer would be interested in such a trivial point. I don't see why you want to make such a big deal out of nothing.

    As far as what will be found, I'll agree with what you last said: "Nothing new can be found unless we look in new places."
    Who know what might still be found, stuck back in old family Bibles, in old family trunks, etc. No one is saying you're wrong, just that you can't know for sure that what the name wasn't spelled different ways by different people. And just because there's no J in a certain spelling doesn't necessarily mean his middle name didn't start with J. I really don't see the reason for controversy here.

  10. #790
    ECS
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    The University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill has the Risque papers.What you allude to is a broadside of the massacre of John Pickrell Risque by indians at Gold Gulch in 1882,which I had provided a link.It was NOT a hunting party,and there was not 30 people massacred.
    www2.lib.unc/mss/inv/r/RISQUE.F.W.html
    Now John Radford,married to Risque niece,Harriet Kennerly,was killed during a hunting party in 1817,not by indians,but by a wild boar.The size of the hunting party is not known.Harriet went on to marry William Clark(of LEWIS & CLARK) Nov 28,1821.
    Last edited by ECS; Nov 25, 2014 at 09:59 PM.

  11. #791
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    YOU DON'T have it, then...? (Post # 864)
    He would have skinned that smoke wagon if he did.

  12. #792
    us
    Oct 2011
    Chester County pa
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    Metal Detecting, Cache Hunting ,And addto our History
    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    The University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill has the Risque papers.What you allude to is a broadside of the massacre of John Pickrell Risque by indians at Gold Gulch in 1882,which I had provided a link.It was NOT a hunting party,and there was not 30 people massacred. www2.lib.unc/mss/inv/r/RISQUE.F.W.html Now John Radford,married to Risque niece,Harriet Kennerly,was killed during a hunting party in 1817,not by indians,but by a wild boar.The size of the hunting party is not known.Harriet went on to marry William Clark(of LEWIS & CLARK) Nov 28,1821.
    This is two different occurrences. Let me look back threw my notes over the holiday. I have the congressional records notes. I found records of a church where the only 2 survivors returned to.

  13. #793
    Old Silver
    I'd love to see these documents.

  14. #794
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
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    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
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    Start here. What do you know about the political history behind this cartoon? What was the controversy?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  15. #795
    Old Silver
    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    Start here. What do you know about the political history behind this cartoon? What was the controversy?
    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	65 
Size:	182.2 KB 
ID:	1084757
    I'm ready to listen. I was mainly referring to the men spoken of by Tat and Franklin, but I like looking at all this stuff.

 

 

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