WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[TN_Guest1523]

The is no outside existing proof that "Captain" Thomas Beale Sr's papers have anything to do with Ward's published 1885 Beale Papers, or that he gave an iron box with ciphers to Robert Morriss.
If Col Taverner Beale had paper known as "Beale Papers", how does that relate to Ward's published "Beale Papers"Edward F Beale, born Feb 4, 1822 in the District of Columbia, did have many western adventures, and published his journal in 1850, which was called "THE BEALE PAPERS".
There are many incidence in Beale's 1850 journal that appear in Ward's 1885 published job pamphlet of the same name.
That fact can not be denied.

Can we link E F Beale to Morriss we have him related to Captain Thomas Beale Sr at this time .

 

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[ECS]

Can we link E F Beale to Morriss we have him related to Captain Thomas Beale Sr at this time .

No.
SCVHistory.com | People | Beale Air Force Base: Biography of Edward F. Beale

 

[ECS]

So E F Beale has been exposed to the knowledge of the Beale party at sometime in his life that would explain the adoption of those words into his journal .

The big difference here is that Edward F Beale western adventures are well documented, in his journal and by others who he served with or under, while the "Beale expedition" as written in Ward's 1885 Beale Papers, lacks this documentation, and the only account is in the dime novel job pamphlet.

 

[bigscoop]

So E F Beale has been exposed to the knowledge of the Beale party at sometime in his life that would explain the adoption of those words into his journal .

Good lord, man. (No pun intended) You have yet to even identify a Captain Thomas J. Beale of the era or his alleged party to which there exist absolutely no record at all. I thought you said that you only deal in facts with multiple sources and confirmations. How bout just one.

 

[ECS]

Similar words and terms used in both "BEALE PAPERS"
EXACT LOCALITY
STAMPEDE
ABUNDANCE OF GAME
ACCESSION TO OUR NUMBERS
BUFFALOES
GRIZZLY BEARS

Wow what a joke this is, you found the same words in a book somewhere ? LOL

No joke here Laf, just one example of many things "borrowed" from one source used to create the 1885 Beale Papers job pamphlet.
The Beale Papers are "Something new, something old, something borrowed, nothing true".

 

[masterpoe]

So E F Beale has been exposed to the knowledge of the Beale party at sometime in his life that would explain the adoption of those words into his journal .

This is the best explanation have yet to see on this. Is this what you would call first mention?

 

[masterpoe]

The big difference here is that Edward F Beale western adventures are well documented, in his journal and by others who he served with or under, while the "Beale expedition" as written in Ward's 1885 Beale Papers, lacks this documentation, and the only account is in the dime novel job pamphlet.

It would seem this Edward was looking for the Beale mine!

 

[bigscoop]

Many a hopeful has attempted to weave E. F. Beale into the Beale treasure mystery over the years. However, upon lengthy study and investigation into E. F. Beale charge and task it becomes quickly obvious that the man was simply building a wagon road and a rather lengthy report, summary, and suggestions for the road's continued use and future improvement. In other words, the man was quite busy and continuously involved with the real world task at hand, building a wagon road.

 

[ECS]

Don't forget his adventures with the US CAMEL CORPS instituted by US Sec of War, Jefferson Davis.
E F Beale never looked for a fictitious "Beale mine", but he probably walked a mile for a camel.

 

[ECS]

So E F Beale has been exposed to the knowledge of the Beale party at sometime in his life that would explain the adoption of those words into his journal .

The Beale Papers of Ward were written in 1884/1885 and the "unknown author" would have had access to the journals of Edward F Beale that were published 35 years earlier.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

This is the best explanation have yet to see on this. Is this what you would call first mention?

Yes, this is first mention for the date of 1822 . We know the date of the letters Beale sent to Morriss .

 

[TN_Guest1523]

It would seem this Edward was looking for the Beale mine!

Seems he would be influenced by the family story of TJB . Like the guy's say had to be people in there own family that knew what they were doing !

 

[ECS]

Yes, this is first mention for the date of 1822 . We know the date of the letters Beale sent to Morriss .

One must accept the word of the "unknown author" that these letters actually existed.
Without any outside collaboration that any of the events in the 1885 Beale Papers occurred, the existence of these letters is highly questionable.
Remember, one can not prove an incident to have happened in the Beale Papers by quoting the Beale Papers.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

One must accept the word of the "unknown author" that these letters actually existed.
Without any outside collaboration that any of the events in the 1885 Beale Papers occurred, the existence of these letters is highly questionable.
Remember, one can not prove an incident to have happened in the Beale Papers by quoting the Beale Papers.

Very possible to use the E F Beale story as a proof the TJB was real and his story was known not just by Morriss's family but the Beale family before 1830 .
His use of the same words and the fact that E F Beale and Captain Thomas Beale of New Orleans were related shows proof that the TJB story was in fact real .

 

[ECS]

What in Edward F Beale's journal leads you to this flawed conclusion?

 

[bigscoop]

Very possible to use the E F Beale story as a proof the TJB was real and his story was known not just by Morriss's family but the Beale family before 1830 .
His use of the same words and the fact that E F Beale and Captain Thomas Beale of New Orleans were related shows proof that the TJB story was in fact real .

Jean, buddy, you're simply piece-milling bits and scraps from multiple sources and weaving your own fantasy. There is absolutely nothing in either of the above claims that establishes the existence of a Captain Thomas J. Beale, the alleged party, or that the TJB narration is true. Nothing to establish that E.F. Beale had ever even heard of the of a captain Thomas J. Beale or the alleged Beale party. Thus far, as with every other proposed remedy to date, you have presented nothing that you can directly connect to the 1885 narration. I wish you did, would quickly congratulate you if you had, but the simple truth is that there is still absolutely zero to establish a Captain TJB of the era and a party of thirty men, etc., etc., etc. I mean, read what you just claimed in the above statements. How on earth can you allow yourself to keep making such unsupported claims as if they are fact? Maybe you need to step away from things for while....reevaluate things with a fresh mind. Doing what you're doing just appears more desperate all the time.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

View attachment 1276261

Thomas Beale (1773 - d.) - Genealogy

His Father Col T beale
Taverner Beale (1742 - 1810) - Genealogy

His Father T beale Sr
Taverner Beale, Sr (1713 - c.1756) - Genealogy

Brother of John Beale

John Beale (c.1709 - c.1767) - Genealogy

His Son George Beale Sr
George Beale, Sr., (b. - 1758) - Genealogy

His Son George Beale III
George Beale, III (1763 - 1821) - Genealogy

His Son George Dixon Beale
George Dixon Beale (1792 - 1835) - Genealogy

His Son Gen. Edward F. Beale
Edward Fitzgerald Beale (1822 - 1893) - Genealogy

Looks like E F Beale was Captain Thomas Beale's second cousin's grandson, born about the last year Captain Beale was in Va giving the box to Morriss .

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Looks like E F Beale was Captain Thomas Beale's second cousin's grandson, born about the last year Captain Beale was in Va giving the box to Morriss .

Were I come from I would know these people in my family or at least know of them . War hero's of the time were common as the patriarchs in the family's .

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Jean, buddy, you're simply piece-milling bits and scraps from multiple sources and weaving your own fantasy. There is absolutely nothing in either of the above claims that establishes the existence of a Captain Thomas J. Beale, the alleged party, or that the TJB narration is true. Nothing to establish that E.F. Beale had ever even heard of the of a captain Thomas J. Beale or the alleged Beale party. Thus far, as with every other proposed remedy to date, you have presented nothing that you can directly connect to the 1885 narration. I wish you did, would quickly congratulate you if you had, but the simple truth is that there is still absolutely zero to establish a Captain TJB of the era and a party of thirty men, etc., etc., etc. I mean, read what you just claimed in the above statements. How on earth can you allow yourself to keep making such unsupported claims as if they are fact? Maybe you need to step away from things for while....reevaluate things with a fresh mind. Doing what you're doing just appears more desperate all the time.

The concept of first mention,
1. 1822 Beale's box and letters was before E F Beale's book of about 1850 .
2. 1822 Beale's letter from St Louis would be the only letter that could have been made public in 1822 .

The following is the letter addressed to Mr. Morriss by Beale, and dated St. Louis, May, 1822, and was the latest communication ever received from him:

St. Louis, Mo., May 9th, 1822.

Robt. Morris, Esq.:

My Esteemed Friend: - Ever since leaving my comfortable quarters at your house I have been journeying to this place, and only succeeded in reaching it yesterday. I have had altogether a pleasant time, the weather being fine and the atmosphere bracing. I shall remain here a week or ten days longer, then "ho" for the plains, to hunt the buffalo and encounter the savage grizzlies. How long I may be absent I cannot now determine, certainly no less than two years, perhaps longer. 1824-1826

With regard to the box left in your charge, I have a few words to say, and, if you will permit me, give you some instructions concerning it. It contains papers vitally affecting the fortunes of myself and many others engaged in business with me, and in the event of my death, its loss might be irreparable. You will, therefore, see the necessity of guarding it with vigilance and care to prevent so great a catastrophe. It also contains some letters addressed to yourself, and which will be necessary to enlighten you concerning the business in which we are engaged. Should none of us ever return you will please preserve carefully the box for the period of ten years from the date of this letter, and if I, or no one with authority from me during that time demands its restoration, you will open it, which can be done by removing the lock. You will find, in addition to the papers addressed to you, other papers which will be unintelligible without the aid of a key to assist you. Such a key I have left in the hands of a friend in this place, sealed, addressed to yourself, and endorsed not to be delivered until June, 1832. By means of this you will understand fully all you will be required to do.

I know you will cheerfully comply with my request, thus adding to the many obligations under which you have already placed me. In the meantime, should death or sickness happen to you, to which all are liable, please select from among your friends some one worthy, and to him hand this letter, and to him delegate your authority. I have been thus particular in my instructions, in consequence of the somewhat perilous enterprise in which we are engaged, but trust we shall meet long ere the time expires, and so save you this trouble. Be the result what it may, however, the game is worth the candle, and we will play it to the end. With kindest wishes for your most excellent wife, compliments to the ladies, a good word to enquiring friends, if there be any, and assurances of my highest esteem for yourself, I remain as ever,

Your sincere friend, T.J.B.

 

[ECS]

There is no known existence of this or any other TJB letter to Morriss outside of Ward's 1885 Beale Papers job pamphlet.