WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[TN_Guest1523]

There is no known existence of this or any other TJB letter to Morriss outside of Ward's 1885 Beale Papers job pamphlet.

That you know of right ?
The letter above was the letter from St Louis 1822 and not apart of the locked up documents, so it is possible for people to have knowledge of this letter before the box was opened correct ?

 

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[franklin]

That you know of right ?
The letter above was the letter from St Louis 1822 and not apart of the locked up documents, so it is possible for people to have knowledge of this letter before the box was opened correct ?

No that is not possible. Robert Morris had the key and could open the box and place the letter within it. But I still don't believe the story ever happened. I believe it was fictitious and the author simpley did not want his name on the pamphlet. What reason could he possibly have for not placing his name as author if the story was true?

 

[TN_Guest1523]

No that is not possible. Robert Morris had the key and could open the box and place the letter within it. But I still don't believe the story ever happened. I believe it was fictitious and the author simpley did not want his name on the pamphlet. What reason could he possibly have for not placing his name as author if the story was true?

If he had the key why break the lock ?

but it was not until 1845, some twenty-three years after it came into my possession, that I decided upon opening it. During that year I had the lock broken, and with the exception of the two letters addressed to myself, and some old receipts, found only some unintelligible papers, covered with figures, and totally incomprehensible to me.

 

[franklin]

Why anything the story is ridiculous anyway.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Why anything the story is ridiculous anyway.

This was, and did happen at a time with no internet . lol Funny how people think if there is no documentation about something it must not have happened .

 

[ECS]

Funny, how some people think if there is no documentation anywhere about something, that it MUST HAVE HAPPENED.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Funny, how some people think if there is no documentation anywhere about something, that it MUST HAVE HAPPENED.

Mr. Beale, who deposited with Mr. Morriss the papers which form the subject of this history .

That line out of the papers itself should be good enough for most !

So why do you think them to be a hoax ?

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Funny, how some people think if there is no documentation anywhere about something, that it MUST HAVE HAPPENED.

You have Ward himself and his Son being asked about the Pamphlet by Hart, how do you not see this ?

 

[bigscoop]

Funny, how some people think if there is no documentation anywhere about something, that it MUST HAVE HAPPENED.

And there it is in a nutshell, the very reason why the Beale mystery still looms large today, because there is absolutely nothing to confirm any of it. With this absence one is totally free to claim most anything, to manufacture and spin all manner of resolve.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

And there it is in a nutshell, the very reason why the Beale mystery still looms large today, because there is absolutely nothing to confirm any of it. With this absence one is totally free to claim most anything, to manufacture and spin all manner of resolve.

I don't like the Hart Papers, But the man did talk to Ward and his Son to confirm the whole thing . All that took place in the 20th Century possibly some of you were alive at that time !

 

[Old Silver]

Question:
Has anyone ever found any "documented" evidence of a large sum of money from the west being lost track of while in route to the east within the time tables offered us in the Beale Pamphlet?

I've found two documented cases (possibilities), but oddly, they both end up in the same place while still out west. But from there the trail goes ice cold? But if I was able to find two documented cases then it makes one wonder how many were possibly not documented? Again...

Both were between the years 1817 - 1821.

Well, I can recall two popular treasure yarns that are completely unsubstantiated
but still hunted by eternal optimists.

True. And many more. But as you know, just because you/we can't find a truth doesn’t mean there is no truth to be found.

Can't argue that point lastleg, sure the tenderfoot thing happens a lot. But there are also situations that allow even the seasoned pros to miss seeing the forest for all the trees. I'm pretty sure the Beale mystery is one of these later cases. Not saying there is a treasure, but I think we're going to find that there is indeed a portion of truth behind this particular tale.

"Just because you/we can't find a truth doesn’t mean there is no truth to be found." I have seen this many times in genealogy. When you deal with history for any length of time, you find this to be true.

 

[bigscoop]

"Just because you/we can't find a truth doesn’t mean there is no truth to be found." I have seen this many times in genealogy. When you deal with history for any length of time, you find this to be true.

I think, given the number of years and the vast number of qualified individuals who have explored this mystery since it's conception, that we are now somewhere far beyond history. I also think, given the vast number of areas researched, that we are also somewhere far beyond that recorded and documented history. If the story had been true as written something would have surfaced by now, and yet still not a stitch or speck of dust that can be directly connected to a Captain Thomas J. Beale of the era or his alleged party. What's this mean, exactly? I think it's pretty clear that there is some bait and hook involved in the grand adventure, C2 and its alleged decoding, and the alleged letters.

 

[Old Silver]

I think, given the number of years and the vast number of qualified individuals who have explored this mystery since it's conception, that we are now somewhere far beyond history. I also think, given the vast number of areas researched, that we are also somewhere far beyond that recorded and documented history. If the story had been true as written something would have surfaced by now, and yet still not a stitch or speck of dust that can be directly connected to a Captain Thomas J. Beale of the era or his alleged party. What's this mean, exactly? I think it's pretty clear that there is some bait and hook involved in the grand adventure, C2 and its alleged decoding, and the alleged letters.

You might be right, but the fact remains that just because we haven't found proof doesn't mean proof doesn't exist. There have been things kept in darkness much longer that the Beale mystery before being discovered. What we HAVE found is suggestive evidence, meaning that the possibility is kept open.

 

[ECS]

And there it is in a nutshell, the very reason why the Beale mystery still looms large today, because there is absolutely nothing to confirm any of it. With this absence one is totally free to claim most anything, to manufacture and spin all manner of resolve.

...and suggestive evidence is not evidence at all, just speculative wishful assumptions.

 

[ECS]

I don't like the Hart Papers, But the man did talk to Ward and his Son to confirm the whole thing . All that took place in the 20th Century possibly some of you were alive at that time !

As with the only source of Beale meeting Morriss is the 1885 Beale Papers, the only source of Hart meeting with James Beverly Ward and son is the HART PAPERS, which you don't like.
Both are self contained parts of their stories, nothing less, nothing more.
Martha Rivers Adams's interview with Ward's daughter, Adeline Ward McVeigh, which appeared in the LYNCHBURG NEWS during the 1930's, is independent of both of those works and is quite revealing about her father's role in the creation of the Beale story.

 

[Old Silver]

...and suggestive evidence is not evidence at all, just speculative wishful assumptions.

You should know.

 

[ECS]

...and your meaning by that statement, Old Silver?
Please feel free to expound upon the subject of the various sources that were borrowed from and utilized in the creation of the 1885 Beale Papers.

 

[Old Silver]

...and your meaning by that statement, Old Silver?
Please feel free to expound upon the subject of the various sources that were borrowed from and utilized in the creation of the 1885 Beale Papers.

Please feel free to show PROOF that they were borrowed from and utilized in the creation of the 1885 Beale Papers. Can you? All you have is SUGGESTIVE evidence, which. according to you, is no evidence at all.

 

[ECS]

I believe we have covered this many, many times on this and on other threads, with all the sources cited, and with those in 1884/1885 Lynchburg who were involved in the creation, copyrighting, printing, publishing, advertising, and selling of the dime novel job pamphlet.
Old Silver, you continue to post the same old sliver one liner comments, without offering any proof than can disprove what is posted.
If you can not offer anything to counter what is presented except for the harassing one liners you are prone to post, take the advice of the Beale Papers "unknown author", "let the matter alone".

 

[Old Silver]

I believe we have covered this many, many times on this and on other threads, with all the sources cited, and with those in 1884/1885 Lynchburg who were involved in the creation, copyrighting, printing, publishing, advertising, and selling of the dime novel job pamphlet.
Old Silver, you continue to post the same old sliver one liner comments, without offering any proof than can disprove what is posted.
If you can not offer anything to counter what is presented except for the harassing one liners you are prone to post, take the advice of the Beale Papers "unknown author", "let the matter alone".

Yes you have, many times. But still no proof. I don't claim to have proof. You do.
You keep telling people they have no proof, so if saying the same thing to you is harassing, then what is it when you do it?