WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[ECS]

Perhaps, but as you well know, and to barrow your previous reference, it's all still just more Rabbit hole. I seriously doubt if anything will ever surface to help clarify any of the residing mysteries in this treasure tale, or at least nothing that can be confirmed. Too much time has passed and with so little to work from and with so many discrepancies in the narration I'm of the mind that if there was any type of confirmation out there it would have already been found with so many qualified and capable people having searched over the years. I fully suspect that it will remain another looming treasure legend long after we are all gone, despite all of the usual claims to the contrary.

...and that my friend, Bigscoop, is the heart of the matter, and creates the neverending treasure story, with nothing revealed, but with the hope that one will solve the ciphers and find the vault and achieve fame and riches.

 

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[ECS]

You do seem to know a lot about them, but no one has ever put them up that I have seen . Should I assume that they do not exist because no one has put them up on post and I have not seen them as of yet ?

All the names that I have posted and their quotes, existed during the time of the Beale publication, or were consulted by the Hart brothers, or were interviewed by Martha rivers Adams, or studied the Beale codes in an official capacity.
Joe Stinnett is still alive and is now the editor of another Virginia newspaper.
It is interesting to note, that while these people stated or alluded to the Beale Papers as being a dime novel work of fiction, no one has ever come forth claiming that this story is true, except those who have claimed to have solved the two unsolved ciphers.

 

[bigscoop]

...and that my friend, Bigscoop, is the heart of the matter, and creates the neverending treasure story, with nothing revealed, but with the hope that one will solve the ciphers and find the vault and achieve fame and riches.

Maybe. But still nothing solid to launch claim of remedy in either direction. That's all I've been saying. It's one thing to present a theory, or thoughts, but it quite another to launch claims of remedy and solutions as if they were fact to something that is still a complete unknown. Both sides of the debate continue to do this without anything whatsoever to support those claims of absolute and conclusive remedies/solutions. Why?

 

[ECS]

When you research those who were contemporary to the 1885 publication, and to some degree involved, be it as "copyright agent", publisher, printer, advertiser. and seller, none really ever said the story was true, just a dime novel treasure story with local interest.
Once certain parties complained about names that were used, a fire destroyed all copies.
If it wasn't for the Harts and Pauline Innis, this entire story would have been long forgotten.

 

[bigscoop]

When you research those who were contemporary to the 1885 publication, and to some degree involved, be it as "copyright agent", publisher, printer, advertiser. and seller, none really ever said the story was true, just a dime novel treasure story with local interest.
Once certain parties complained about names that were used, a fire destroyed all copies.
If it wasn't for the Harts and Pauline Innis, this entire story would have been long forgotten.

So what? Not too long ago you were inserting people like Hutter and Grandpa Risque's fabulous library into your string of events, also the Civil war, etc., etc. None of it matters or can be proven to have any relevance to the narration whatsoever. The Harts spoke with Ward, is this too consistent with the uncertain claims of Button and Ward's daughter? No, there is absolutely nothing consistent in any of it. Now what does that tell you? Look, all I'm saying is this, "you have a theory, but you certainty don't have a remedy/solution that you can confirm and verify"....just like everyone else. Like I said, when it comes to claims of absolute remedy and solution we're all just ducks and geese flapping about in the same pond.

 

[ECS]

Risqué, the Hutters, the Kennerelys, Bufords, and Oteys all have a connection to the locations and the names used in the Beale Papers, and to Ward.
As for the Harts meeting with James Beverly Ward in 1903, the only source of that comes from the Hart Papers, and that is as valid proof as using the Beale Papers to prove the meeting between Beale and Morriss and Morriss and the "unknown author".
As for the Civil War, there was a mention of the "2nd year of the Confederate War" in the job pamphlet, while there was never any mention of Adams-Onis, Champ 'd Asile, Lafitte, Girard, Patterson, opium, Bonapartism, or a freeman of color Alderman.
You continue to stray from the provided Beale story to weave fantastic theories with the single thread of a word or a name, and all have unraveled.
What I have presented from my research may not be the "absolute remedy", but it sure seems to be a bitter pill for some.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

So what? Not too long ago you were inserting people like Hutter and Grandpa Risque's fabulous library into your string of events, also the Civil war, etc., etc. None of it matters or can be proven to have any relevance to the narration whatsoever. The Harts spoke with Ward, is this too consistent with the uncertain claims of Button and Ward's daughter? No, there is absolutely nothing consistent in any of it. Now what does that tell you? Look, all I'm saying is this, "you have a theory, but you certainty don't have a remedy/solution that you can confirm and verify"....just like everyone else. Like I said, when it comes to claims of absolute remedy and solution we're all just ducks and geese flapping about in the same pond.

And yer shooting at ALL of 'em...

 

[ECS]

When one weighs the various accounts and various details regarding the Beale papers then it becomes obvious that there exist some deceptive elements. For instance, why did Ward's daughter feel that her father had written the narration? This most certainly conflicts with what Ward allegedly told Hart. So why then did Ward's own daughter feel that her father had written the tale? This is just one example of how the various accounts and details often clash...

One must remember that the account of the Harts 1903 meeting with Ward and son originate from the HART PAPERS copyrighted by George Hart, which is similar to using the Beale Papers to prove that Beale meet with Morriss and Morriss met with the "unknown author".
Now Adeline Virginia Ward McVeigh, born 1846, would have been 16 during the "2nd year of the Confederate War" and 39 in 1885 when the Beale Papers were published and placed for sale.
Having been raised by her father, one would think she had better knowledge of this matter than the Harts one time alleged meeting.

 

[ECS]

It just goes to show you that, due to the era and many events & people, you can create any theory you like and you can find all sorts connections to run with. However, as will always be the case, regardless of theory, without that smoking gun they all mean nothing in the end. At this point it's going to take something along the lines of a written confession to establish much of anything...documented of course.

Not saying it's a hoax or simple dime novel, just saying that it's going to be next to impossible to really establish anything to the contrary.

So far , nothing has been established that can prove anything in the Beale Papers as actually ever happening.
Its always could have, possible, because of some unrelated to the Beale story event, but no smoking gun.
This thread has explored influences, such as E F Beale's journal, and other actual events that are alluded to in the Beale Papers, also several theories such as Lafitte, Adams-Onis, CSA, and others but will all, no smoking gun, just possible could have "connexions".
That is the brilliance of the 1885 Beale Papers copyrighted by James Beverly Ward, people will continue to look for outside connections, and find a "key" that solves the "ciphers" only to end up with an empty hole as others who have traveled this path before.
As long as there is the lure of these ciphers and the unfound Beale treasure vault of the story..."the beat goes on...".

 

[ECS]

There is strong evidence of a dime novel, to be sure, anyone who refuses to believe this is just kidding himself. But the great thing about this story is nothing is for certain.
True, there were many expeditions, both small and large, that took to the west in the period referenced, and they didn't just all originate from Virgina or Lynchburg, but several did. It's also a matter of record that men did pass through the region trying to recruit such adventurers for various expeditions.
And when we look at the politics of the period and all the opportunist with their eyes on the west it's so very easy to plot a number of them into a possible solution, many of them even knowing each other.
So the timing of the tale, the era in which it was said to have happened, this creates enough content and enough possible suspects to build endless theories...

...and yes, you have provided endless theories with no solid absolute undeniable evidence that can connect any to the Beale story in the 1885 Beale Papers, or to James Beverly Ward who held the copyright and published the job pamphlet.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

DYK? Even James Beverly Ward went "out WEST" in 1840...? PV has it in his book, THE BEALE TREASURE: NEW History of a MYSTERY; Chapter 15, pg 128-133. He got a job as Assistant Paymaster of the US Army at Jefferson Barracks, with his UNCLE, Major George Hutter (Paymaster). AND! He met his future "wife-to-be", Harriet Otey there. Her father was Colonel John Buford Otey (from Bedford County, Va. & cousin of Mrs. Paschal Buford). SO!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

So, MAYBE... when the Otey family lived in Bedford County, Va., they lived within "4 miles of Buford's".

 

[franklin]

So, MAYBE... when the Otey family lived in Bedford County, Va., they lived within "4 miles of Buford's".

Isaac Otey a Virginia Representative lived about two miles north up Goose Creek. His daughters married Paschal Buford and Clayton Hart. Brother in Laws.

Incidentally, Isaac Otey was the man that owned Fancy Farm before selling it to his son in law, Paschal Buford.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

INDEED!

 

[ECS]

The Hutters and Ward were cousins,their grandfather was Major James Risque,and John William Sherman was cousin to James Beverly Ward.On various genealogy sites,Ward's wife is listed as Harriet Emmaline Buford Otey,and his mother was Elizabeth Kennerly Ward.Many of these surnames appear in the Beale research.

There seems to be a strong family connection to the writing and publication of the 1885 Beale Papers.

John William Sherman's mother was Harriet P Otey and he was 1st cousin once removed of Ward's wife, who was born and raided 4 miles from Buford's Tavern.
Sherman was also the great grandnephew of Pascal Buford.
Clayton Hart was also married to an Otey, and after Pauline Innis took an interest in THE HART PAPERS, brother George Hart introduced her to an Otey who shown Innis an iron box that contained a torn numbers covered slip of paper.
Both Robert Morris and James Beverly Ward were in businesses with an Otey family member.

 

[ECS]

Giles Ward,James Beverly Ward's father, married Elizabeth Kennerly,whose older brothers,Capt George Hancock Kennerly,born Jan 28,1790 in Fincastle,Botetourt County,Virginia,and James Kennerly,born Aug 5,1792,also born in Fincastle,moved to St Louis in 1817.While in St Louis,the Kennerly brothers opened up a mercantile business and had accounts with both the Bank of St Louis formed in 1816 by merchants,and the Bank of Missouri,also formed by merchants in 1817.
Both banks accepted furs as collateral for loans,and both banks and the Kennerlys conducted business with the fur trappers,hunters,and explorers who came to St Louis. James Beverly Ward enjoyed the frontier tales of his Kennerly uncles,and that influence can be noted in the 1885 Beale job pamphlet.

James Beverly Ward was assistant military pay clerk in St Charles, Mo, 1840.
Julia Hancock, for whom the Risqué/ Beale duel was fought, stayed with her Kennerly uncles after her first husband died, later married William Clark, of the Lewis & Clark Expedition, which began their perilous adventure from Fincastle , Virginia.

 

[ECS]

John Pickrell Risque was a lawyer in Albuquerque,New Mexico,and while looking at gold and silver mining properties at Gold Gulch,Risque and his party were massacred by indians in 1882.
LIVELY ROOTS John Pickrell Risque [34969]
The Beale job pamphlet was published in 1885,3 years after this event.
The published work of Margaret Anthony Cabell appears to have provided the Morriss background included in the Beale story.

That event, and the story of the discovered treasure of Robert O Willis of gold, silver, and jewelry hidden in a Kentucky cave which appeared in the April 16,1879 edition of the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN served as the source of the Beale treasure.
John William Sherman was a sub-editor of that newspaper when the Willis story appeared.

 

[ECS]

Harriet Kennerly married John Radford,Dec 23,1806 at her uncle George Hancock Kennerly's Fincastle home.In attendence,was William Clark,who was married to Harriet's first cousin,Julia Hancock.
During the War of 1812,LT George Hancock Kennerly,served along side with Thomas Beale's Sharpshooters,and on July 20,1814,carried the American Flag and the terms of surrender to the British at Praire de Chien.After the war,Kennerly moved back to Fincastle,and with brother James,moved to St Louis to state a merchantile business.
While hunting with a party of friends in Virginia,John Radford was killed by a wild boar,and the widow,Harriet Kennerly Radford and three children moved to St Louis to stay with her uncles,and be near first cousin,Julia Hancock and her husband,William Clark.
Julia died,June 27,1820,and Harriet married William Clark,Nov 28,1821.

In 1815, James Beverly Risqué and other Lynchburg businessmen held a banquet for Andrew Jackson, Rev Charles Green Clay gave the invocation, and Pascal Buford was also in attendance.
Major James Beverly Risqué served as Andrew Jackson's bodyguard detail during his Florida campaign which brought about the Adams-Onis Treaty and received a spoliation payment as a "patriot".
Risqué requested an appointment to the Florida territory, which he never received.

 

[ECS]

Ward's father was co-owner of Ward & Diggs Booksellers in Lynchburg which sold the books of Poe, dime novel western adventures, journals of western explores like E F Beale, Pike, Carson, Lewis & Clark, and Dr William Blair's "Writing In Cipher".
Giles Ward ,along with John William Sherman, were members of the Lynchburg Thespian Group, who performed the plays of Shakespeare as well as others, including plays written by Sherman.
"The game is worth the candle" is a paraphrase from Shakespeare's "TWO MEN OF VERONA" which involves a man who had to flee town after a duel, missing letters, and a damsel named Julia.

 

[ECS]

During the "2nd year of the Confederate War", Robert Morris died at his nieces' house, while James Beverly Ward had business in Richmond with RITCHIE & DUNNAVANT PRINTERS with his "Tables Of Distances From Principle Points In The Confederate States" , and he joined Dove Lodge #51 in Richmond.
His Hutter cousins both served the Confederacy, CSA Capt F C Hutter as a paymaster, and CSA Major E S Hutter, a VMI graduate, who received CSA Sec of State Judah P Benjamin's personal annotated copy of Vattel's Law of Nations that was used as a Confederate code book at Danville in April 1865 after the fall of Richmond. Both Hutters were well versed in codes and ciphers.