WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[Rebel - KGC]

WRONG! (MHO) The "JOB PRINT" has TWO parts; second part (from second year of the "CONFEDERATE WAR", in which RM gives the SECRET) is the "BEGINNING" with the first part ("Beale Expedition of 1819-1822, the THE BOX, letters, "THEIR" Ciphers) being ALL made up to "flesh out the "tale". ONLY the HART PAPERS tells the REAL story of 1st Lt. Newton Hazlewood, CSA requesting Clayton Hart (they were BOTH working for the RR) to make copies of FIGURES (NUMBERS?) from several pages of paper, which NH indicated was a TREASURE; NOTHING about a Beale Treasure, nor "THE STORY". Only later, after visiting "JB" Ward & son in Lynchburg, Va. were the HARTS (HEART, BIG KGC "Treasure") defining "it" as the Beale Treasure, etc. Newton Hazlewood thought "it" was buried on HIS land EAST of Montvale or within four miles of Buford's Depot; NH must have had the pages of FIGURES/NUMBERS since @ 1865... SO! BTW, Clayton Hart changed the FIGURES/NUMBERS & NH was OK with that. The Inner Committee of 1882 (with stories of TRUE, AUTHENTIC EVENTS) as "Beale Papers" (even Frank James as "James Warren" was there)... Jubal Anderson Early, MANY ex-CSA Officials... at the ARLINGTON HOTEL; Jubal Early's fave "hangout" (he went there for coffee, EVERY morning before getting to his PRIVATE Law Practice near Main Street). Heh...

 

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[franklin]

Just start you a thread whether the Beale Treasure is true or not? You do not have to say it every time someone tries to talk about some avenue of new research. We have heard it a few thousand times and it gets to be a nuisance. Let others research a while without the true story or not bull.

 

[franklin]

WRONG! (MHO) The "JOB PRINT" has TWO parts; second part (from second year of the "CONFEDERATE WAR", in which RM gives the SECRET) is the "BEGINNING" with the first part ("Beale Expedition of 1819-1822, the THE BOX, letters, "THEIR" Ciphers) being ALL made up to "flesh out the "tale". ONLY the HART PAPERS tells the REAL story of 1st Lt. Newton Hazlewood, CSA requesting Clayton Hart (they were BOTH working for the RR) to make copies of FIGURES (NUMBERS?) from several pages of paper, which NH indicated was a TREASURE; NOTHING about a Beale Treasure, nor "THE STORY". Only later, after visiting "JB" Ward & son in Lynchburg, Va. were the HARTS (HEART, BIG KGC "Treasure") defining "it" as the Beale Treasure, etc. Newton Hazlewood thought "it" was buried on HIS land EAST of Montvale or within four miles of Buford's Depot; NH must have had the pages of FIGURES/NUMBERS since @ 1865... SO! BTW, Clayton Hart changed the FIGURES/NUMBERS & NH was OK with that. The Inner Committee of 1882 (with stories of TRUE, AUTHENTIC EVENTS) as "Beale Papers" (even Frank James as "James Warren" was there)... Jubal Anderson Early, MANY ex-CSA Officials... at the ARLINGTON HOTEL; Jubal Early's fave "hangout" (he went there for coffee, EVERY morning before getting to his PRIVATE Law Practice near Main Street). Heh...

One must also remember General Mumford, Buck Wright and Bear Tolley. Bear Tolley probably killed more bears than did Daniel Boone. And Buck Wright what was he guarding for General Mumford and the Sons of the Confederacy Robert E. Lee Charter. All showed up at his funeral. Strange for a hermit?

Also Pauline Innis and her husband Admiral Walter Innis when they searched for the treasure they had Buck Wright and Toler Ranson along as guides.

 

[ECS]

Just start you a thread whether the Beale Treasure is true or not? You do not have to say it every time someone tries to talk about some avenue of new research. We have heard it a few thousand times and it gets to be a nuisance. Let others research a while without the true story or not bull.

Franklin, do you understand that this entire thread has been about analyzing the Beale Papers as a literary work?
It has nothing to do with whether the story is true or not. Do you comprehend this concept?
What is a nuisance is your constant complaining about my posts when it is quite clear you do not understand the material presented nor the area of research.

 

[franklin]

Franklin, do you understand that this entire thread has been about analyzing the Beale Papers as a literary work?
It has nothing to do with whether the story is true or not. Do you comprehend this concept?
What is a nuisance is your constant complaining about my posts when it is quite clear you do not understand the material presented nor the area of research.

This is the last time i am going to respond to any of your post.

 

[ECS]

WRONG! (MHO) The "JOB PRINT" has TWO parts; second part (from second year of the "CONFEDERATE WAR", in which RM gives the SECRET) is the "BEGINNING" with the first part ("Beale Expedition of 1819-1822, the THE BOX, letters...

Once again, the "unknown author" is the NARATOR of the story, with his first person description of his meeting with Morris and hearing the Beale story , which he (unknown author") then presents the Beale story told to him by Morriss, "second hand" or if you like, hearsay.
The "unknown author" then goes on to explain his breaking the ciphers efforts, and after 20 years being unable to solve C1 & C3,contacts Ward with a finished manuscript that happens to include a mention of the contact, for Ward to act as agent and publisher of this finished manuscript.
Please take note, everything in the 1885 Beale Papers is presented from the perspective of this "unknown author"- only he heard the story from Morriss, saw the iron box with ciphers, and the letters which comprised the Beale story.
Did Ward see any of these items? No, yet he willingly agreed to copyright and publish this presented manuscript as agent.

Everything in the 1885 Beale Papers comes directly from this "unknown author", not Morriss, and not from Beale.

 

[franklin]

WRONG! (MHO) The "JOB PRINT" has TWO parts; second part (from second year of the "CONFEDERATE WAR", in which RM gives the SECRET) is the "BEGINNING" with the first part ("Beale Expedition of 1819-1822, the THE BOX, letters, "THEIR" Ciphers) being ALL made up to "flesh out the "tale". ONLY the HART PAPERS tells the REAL story of 1st Lt. Newton Hazlewood, CSA requesting Clayton Hart (they were BOTH working for the RR) to make copies of FIGURES (NUMBERS?) from several pages of paper, which NH indicated was a TREASURE; NOTHING about a Beale Treasure, nor "THE STORY". Only later, after visiting "JB" Ward & son in Lynchburg, Va. were the HARTS (HEART, BIG KGC "Treasure") defining "it" as the Beale Treasure, etc. Newton Hazlewood thought "it" was buried on HIS land EAST of Montvale or within four miles of Buford's Depot; NH must have had the pages of FIGURES/NUMBERS since @ 1865... SO! BTW, Clayton Hart changed the FIGURES/NUMBERS & NH was OK with that. The Inner Committee of 1882 (with stories of TRUE, AUTHENTIC EVENTS) as "Beale Papers" (even Frank James as "James Warren" was there)... Jubal Anderson Early, MANY ex-CSA Officials... at the ARLINGTON HOTEL; Jubal Early's fave "hangout" (he went there for coffee, EVERY morning before getting to his PRIVATE Law Practice near Main Street). Heh...

Keep up with the R & I. We will get to the right location either separately or together. Check around Lynchburg and see if you can find any diaries either for or against the story. i am going to continue in my search for the Ward Cemetery.

 

[ECS]

This is the last time i am going to respond to any of your post.

If you say so, but recently complaining about my posts has been a major theme of your posts.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Once again, the "unknown author" is the NARATOR of the story, with his first person description of his meeting with Morris and hearing the Beale story , which he (unknown author") then presents the Beale story told to him by Morriss, "second hand" or if you like, hearsay.
The "unknown author" then goes on to explain his breaking the ciphers efforts, and after 20 years being unable to solve C1 & C3,contacts Ward with a finished manuscript that happens to include a mention of the contact, for Ward to act as agent and publisher of this finished manuscript.
Please take note, everything in the 1885 Beale Papers is presented from the perspective of this "unknown author"- only he heard the story from Morriss, saw the iron box with ciphers, and the letters which comprised the Beale story.
Did Ward see any of these items? No, yet he willingly agreed to copyright and publish this presented manuscript as agent.

Everything in the 1885 Beale Papers comes directly from this "unknown author", not Morriss, and not from Beale.

As I said, the "unknown" author is Maj. FC Hutter, former PAYMASTER - CSA (Virginia). "JB" Ward was his COUSIN, AND! AGENT for the "unknown" author... they were BOTH descendants of James Beverly RISQUE. As youngsters, PROBABLY played at Grandpa Risque's HUNTER'S HILL Plantation/Farm, within sight of Sandusky, (home of the Hutter Family), AND! Near TJ's Poplar Forest (once owned by the HUTTERS). FACTS!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Now, WHY would Maj. FC Hutter (CSA) care about all this...? As former CSA PAYMASTER, he would be "interested" & MAYBE feel responsible for the "missing" CSA Treasury; ALL Richmond "stores" were moved to Lynchburg, Va. & points WEST as Richmond, Va. was "falling" to the Yanks. Did Mayor David Saunders, Sr. of Richmond, Va. help with the removal of Bank of Virginia "Stores" ($$$$$$$$$) to Lynchburg, Va., since Lynchburg, Va. became STATE CAPITAL of Virginia April 7-10, 1865...? NOT clear who the MAYOR of Lynchburg, Va. was at that time, still doing R & I on it. Gov. "Extra" Billy Smith did reside in one of the old HISTORIC homes near Court Street... still doing R & I on that, too. FACTS of Lynchburg, Va. HISTORY... CF Hutter worked for the City of Lynchburg, Va. Internal Revenue Dept. under Henry Rives (Capt., CSA Amherst Artillery)... AND! Would have known of "SUDDEN WEALTH" found in the "area" (Richmond, Va. "stores" - $$$$$$), which coulda been buried in Old City Cemetery... OR! CSA Treasury for WESTERN PORTION of Virginia, as stated before.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

In terms of Maj. ES Hutter, he founded the RIVERMOUNT Company, building the ORIGINAL Rivermount Bridge, and living across the bridge on D Street, HISTORIC area know as DIAMOND HILL... FACTS!

 

[ECS]

Rebel-KGC, with the last three posts above you tacitly agreed that the narrative test of the Beale story in the 1885 Beale Papers is not a true story, therefore being a work of fiction, written in the form of a novel.
What I find truly amazing and confusing at the same time is how with all wonderment one can present a totally unrelated alternative "real" story behind the story presented in the Beale Papers and still claim that the Beale story in the job pamphlet is true.
Either the Beale story is true as written or it is not.
Really a simple concept after all, isn't it.

 

[ECS]

If CSA Maj F C Hutter was the author of the Beale Papers, and it is not about a 1817 Beale perilous adventure expedition but a cover story for "missing Confederate treasury", then what does that reveal about the HART PAPERS, Innis's GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE, and Claudine Fulton Ellis's THE BEALE TREASURE CODES, THE KEY?
...or this that was posted a year ago on the Beale threads:

The gold "Beale and his ten associates delivered to Bedford county was contained in 30 gallon large salt brine pots from the salt works at BOONE's SALT MINE near Franklin, Missouri...the gold was about 14K gold or about 60 percent content of gold. the silver a little more pure. It was smelted down into what is referred to as sand box cast".
"The gold bars were being transported in the false bottoms of the wagons. The wagons came up on Big Otter Creek. The Beale Party had to unload the gold bars onto pack mules or horses to get the wagons across, then the gold bars were placed back into the false bottoms of the wagons".

Since none of this is mentioned in Ward's 1885 copyrighted Beale Papers, the gold being 14K smelted into bars or the wagons having false bottoms, what is the origin of this version of the story?
Due to the vagueness of parts of the Beale narrative in the job print pamphlet and the total lack of any collaborating evidence outside of that work, many different alternative versions have been claimed and published as the "true" story, but as with the above example, it is just another speculated embellishment on the original story published by Ward.

 

[franklin]

I am asking the MODERATORS this question and it is not directed to you since I refuse to respond to your same yarn over and over.

Why can we not as posters get on here and talk with other posters that are searching for truth without putting up with another poster totally destroying the train of thoughts with his continued same questions and digging up old post and messing up every thread on this forum whether it be the Beale Treasure, the Confederate Treasury, Jonathan Swift Silver Mines or Pegleg's treasure, Oak Island or New Ross or any other thread. When a poster contributes nothing to the conversation or thread it is a disruption and becomes annoying and a distraction that destroys every thread. I refuse to talk to this poster even though he or she keeps digging in the basement for skeltons when in reality all we are doing is researching and exploring different avenues of thought that could lead us to the truth. I am sick of the distractions and I am quite sure others are also. Why is this allowed to continue?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Rebel-KGC, with the last three posts above you tacitly agreed that the narrative test of the Beale story in the 1885 Beale Papers is not a true story, therefore being a work of fiction, written in the form of a novel.
What I find truly amazing and confusing at the same time is how with all wonderment one can present a totally unrelated alternative "real" story behind the story presented in the Beale Papers and still claim that the Beale story in the job pamphlet is true.
Either the Beale story is true as written or it is not.
Really a simple concept after all, isn't it.[/QUOTE
As written in 1885...? NOT true in MHO.

 

[jeff of pa]

in My opinion #1. the OP has the Say on what the Thread is About.

after that... Everyone Else is still welcome to post, However they should stay on Topic.

If the OP Goes too Far off topic or causes the thread to became a problem.
The thread may be Locked or Disappear.

If a Poster. Not the OP Goes too Far off topic or causes the thread to became a problem.
the poster may be warned to stay out or be helped to Disappear.

again ,
if the thread is speculation. as long as the posts are on topic, not calling anyone a liar, or stupid.
all opinions & Questions are allowed.

If the Thread is about a Book or TV Show all opinions & Questions are allowed.

If the thread is about a Members personal Hunt. the OP Can dictate what is & is not ok with them.

we are a Treasure Hunting site. members are believed to be open Minded.
and expected to be courteous. Continued posts denying Treasures Exist
are of No interest to us, And should be avoided. you can state your disbelief and move on. but not harp on the subject unless it is your thread and the topic is about
your disbelief . Discussing TV shows would be the Exception , as We all know how
Editors & Producers are.

 

[jeff of pa]

Sorry.
in Short Don't complain to me about an OP.

unless you can prove he started the Thread to Cause Trouble.

Your Options are Move on or Live with it

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Moving on... I DO think that the OP by ECS is ONE of the MANY PAPERS of "True, Authentic Events" utilized for the "JOB PRINT" by John W. Sherman, who interviewed FC Hutter; Hutter DID "interview" RM, and then was called to Richmond, Va in 1862/63 during the CONFEDERATE WAR. RM died in 1863... so did Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson (TJ!) Heh. NEVER read the book in the OP; ECS stated that it was in the LOC... dunno. MORE FACTS of Lynchburg, Va. REAL History... Presbyterian Cemetery, founded in 1823 (Heh) is the "Final Resting Place" for ES Hutter... AND! his grandfather, JAMES BEVERLY RISQUE, another War of 1812 vet; his name is on a Plaque (listing the Vets), AND! I visited "ES"'s gravesite & saw the JBR headstone; quite "weathered"; his body was ORIGINALLY buried on his plantation/farm... moved to P.C. OH! One more thing... "CSA Max" is ALSO buried at P.C. (mentioned in the "JOB PRINT"). "CSA Max" has a curving bench near his "site"... looking for a monument with a "Star-shaped" top; why...? B/C the curving bench looks like a WAXING MOON from a "bird-eye" view; KGC symbol... WAXING MOON under a 5-pointed STAR; Heh.

 

[franklin]

Moving on... I DO think that the OP by ECS is ONE of the MANY PAPERS of "True, Authentic Events" utilized for the "JOB PRINT" by John W. Sherman, who interviewed FC Hutter; Hutter DID "interview" RM, and then was called to Richmond, Va in 1862/63 during the CONFEDERATE WAR. RM died in 1863... so did Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson (TJ!) Heh. NEVER read the book in the OP; ECS stated that it was in the LOC... dunno. MORE FACTS of Lynchburg, Va. REAL History... Presbyterian Cemetery, founded in 1823 (Heh) is the "Final Resting Place" for ES Hutter... AND! his grandfather, JAMES BEVERLY RISQUE, another War of 1812 vet; his name is on a Plaque (listing the Vets), AND! I visited "ES"'s gravesite & saw the JBR headstone; quite "weathered"; his body was ORIGINALLY buried on his plantation/farm... moved to P.C. OH! One more thing... "CSA Max" is ALSO buried at P.C. (mentioned in the "JOB PRINT"). "CSA Max" has a curving bench near his "site"... looking for a monument with a "Star-shaped" top; why...? B/C the curving bench looks like a WAXING MOON from a "bird-eye" view; KGC symbol... WAXING MOON under a 5-pointed STAR; Heh.

Where did you find the information that JBR was orginally buried on the plantation and then moved to the Presbyterian Cemetery. I thought he was originally buried at the Presbyterian Cemetery?

JBR was also an Uncle to an ESH for whom ESH of the Civil War was named for and the latter ECS owned Poplar Forest home of President Thomas Jefferson.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Nah... JBR was ESH's grandfather. My R & I on JBR came from MANY places; he had a FAMILY CEMETERY at the NE or NW corner of HH; the Ward Family was ALSO buried there... haven't found it, yet. ECS owned Poplar Forest...? WOW!