The Solution Rest Here.....

[Rebel - KGC]

You may have just hit the nail on the head. In his memoirs Laffite claims that he sacrificed all that he possessed and sometime after the events in Texas Riguad is critical of Lallemand for his failure to distribute the funds to the survivors of Champ D'Asile. The Beale Pamphlet claims that the treasure was never recovered, so it could be, and is my personal opinion, that the author is simply saying that "they" never got their promised share. This then, would also be consistent with Monroe's letter to Joseph Bonaparte where he utterly denies the US ever promised to make payments to Tallyrand, Joseph, and others for services rendered. So your unknown author, whoever he was, used "connexions" for good reason and he was likely very well informed of the affair. To this I am certain to be the case. As of today, there is a lot more that I'm willing to divulge.

For instance, you guys have dragged me through the mire for suggesting that the Bufords and the region had strong Bonapartist ties, my example of this being the reference of Napoleon Bonaparte Buford and Algernon Sidney Buford. But what I didn't tell you was that when we investigate the extended Beale family tree we encounter the name Achillie Murat, this being the Nephew of Napoleon Bonaparte and the man Laffite went to see in St. Augustine. Thomas Beale was the son of Taverner Beale, the same Beale who had registered himself as only being from China. When Beale Sr. dies this other "china" Beale also disappears. Strangely, our Beale of China/Opium fame is involved in a sensational bankruptcy against the British East India Company, and with history repeating itself again, our Beale of New Orleans was also in an insolvent state at the time of his death. If Laffite was able to fake his death and live for many years under assumed name then why not Thomas Beale? This could easily be why he shows up in a river in China years later, the victim of an apparent suicide (Which I seriously doubt to be the actual cause of death.) And there is more.....

Read "Connexions"...... http://www.etsy.com/shop/LagoonRiver?ref=search_shop_redirect

Ah SO! YOU are the author, then...?

 

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Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[bigscoop]

Ah SO! YOU are the author, then...?

This is just a shortened & condensed PDF version but it contains quite a bit. If at some point I feel there is a need to do a much larger and more thorough piece then I'll have to have a sit-down with Tat and a few others to make arrangements for that huge undertaking. But I think this condensed PDF version explains enough to bring the entire scope of things into clear focus. It's very difficult to present a clear case in these forums becasue the information becomes too scattered. So this PDF simply confines some of the finer points in one place for clearer presentation. also some new stuff in there as well.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

This is just a shortened & condensed PDF version but it contains quite a bit. If at some point I feel there is a need to do a much larger and more thorough piece then I'll have to have a sit-down with Tat and a few others to make arrangements for that huge undertaking. But I think this condensed PDF version explains enough to bring the entire scope of things into clear focus. It's very difficult to present a clear case in these forums becasue the information becomes too scattered. So this PDF simply confines some of the finer points in one place for clearer presentation. also some new stuff in there as well.

LOL! YOU avoided the question; are YOU, the author...?

 

[bigscoop]

LOL! YOU avoided the question; are YOU, the author...?

I think I answered that pretty clearly....but yes, I am.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I think I answered that pretty clearly....but yes, I am.

No, it wasn't clear; you are certainly passionate about your subject... being the author EXPLAINS EVERYTHING!

 

[ECS]

... Achillie Murat, this being the Nephew of Napoleon Bonaparte and the man Laffite went to see in St. Augustine...

Charles Louis Napoleon Achille Murat (1801-1847) moved to St Augustine in 1824, his house is still standing. In 1825, he moved to the Tallahassee area and built a plantation on the Lafayette land grant. Murat did return to St Augustine on visits, but he main residence was Tallahassee. He served under Call in the Florida militia during the first Seminole War, and his politics were Jacksonian Democrat, not a Bonapartist.
http://www.staugustinegovernment.co...hives/2_03/great_fla_bios/prince_napolean.cfm
How was Murat encountered in the extended Beale Family?

 

[Old Silver]

You get a boat load of sticks and are trying to make saw mill lumber out of it-----it won't wash.

First you are saying that TJB Jr. is the China Beale------you are sadly mistaken. TJB Jr was born in 1800 and China Beale was a Third Mate on the HMS Grosvenour in 1792. TJB Jr. died in 1823 at the age of 22 or 23 depending on birthday and China Beale died in 1843 jumping over-board and committing suicide. You are going way to far to drag in history information and trying to strain all of it into the Beale Treasure Mystery. Sorry but this is the last I have to say about the French and or China Beale.

I would like to hear more about China Beale being a sailor. I say this because of other info I have found. Please continue discussing this.

 

[bigscoop]

You get a boat load of sticks and are trying to make saw mill lumber out of it-----it won't wash.

First you are saying that TJB Jr. is the China Beale------you are sadly mistaken. TJB Jr was born in 1800 and China Beale was a Third Mate on the HMS Grosvenour in 1792. TJB Jr. died in 1823 at the age of 22 or 23 depending on birthday and China Beale died in 1843 jumping over-board and committing suicide. You are going way to far to drag in history information and trying to strain all of it into the Beale Treasure Mystery. Sorry but this is the last I have to say about the French and or China Beale.

I've mentioned nothing about Beale Jr. Not sure where you're swimming from....or to?

 

[bigscoop]

Charles Louis Napoleon Achille Murat (1801-1847) moved to St Augustine in 1824, his house is still standing. In 1825, he moved to the Tallahassee area and built a plantation on the Lafayette land grant. Murat did return to St Augustine on visits, but he main residence was Tallahassee. He served under Call in the Florida militia during the first Seminole War, and his politics were Jacksonian Democrat, not a Bonapartist.
http://www.staugustinegovernment.co...hives/2_03/great_fla_bios/prince_napolean.cfm
How was Murat encountered in the extended Beale Family?

More research and you will iron this out....this goes back to the political differences I've spoken of before, i.e., republican/democrat....north/south...etc.
Murat, you have to extend into the Willis linage and you'll find it;

Elizabeth (Madison) Willis survived her husband and married, in 1753, Richard Beale, brother of Taverner Beale.....

Murat marries a Willis, which brings the Bonapartes into the extended family tree, but wait, it gets even better because
the Elizabeth Madison Willis marriage to Richard Beale also brings Madison into the flock. Madison was involved with the
Louisiana Purchase, a land purchased from Napoleon.

 

[bigscoop]

Google Wreck of HMS Grosvenour 1792 Had enormous treasure that has never been recovered. TJB's treasure MAYBE

The Grosvenour was an East India Ship, estimates of its actual cargo vary, it went down off the cost of Africa, A Thomas Beale was third mate.

 

[bigscoop]

Here's the basic argument that some of you keep throwing back in regards to the use of the spelling “connexions”. The argument is VERY unsound.


Your argument poses that the spelling connexions was used in error, or by simple mistake, this either resulting from illiteracy or a natural familiarity with the French spelling of the word, connections, which also appears later in the Beale Pamphlet text.


A) the pamphlet text itself rules out illiteracy and actually presents quite the opposite.
B) if the author used the spelling connexions from a natural familiarity then this certainly suggest that he possessed a strong French presence.
C) your suggesting that the editor and type setter, also a known author, John Sherman, failed to recognize the author's misuse of the spelling.


All of these arguments are most unsound. In fact, the evidence is so overwhelming in favor of design and intent that there can be no question that the use of the spelling was intentional. So why use “connexions” at the very moment when that's exactly what you're asking your readers to do, to make the “connexions.”


The only possible answer to this is because the spelling of the word was used to aid readers, or as clue, in making those required connections.


Now I realize that some of you, regardless of the evidence to the contrary, are going to continue to deny any possible French connexion to the tale, but this is simply a mistake on your part as the author has made it perfectly clear that this connexion is part of the tale and that the tale bears French influence.

 

[bigscoop]

If you read old newspapers a lot like I have you will find that sometimes type-setters will place one letter instead of two to fill a line instead of leaving holes in the print. So replacing a "CT" with an "X" is quite explainable.

In the same text where connection is used again? I think not. Not a chance that this was a mistake of literary error.
So how do you explain the undeniable date comparisons that I've presented, those relating to the dates of the treaty and the deposits and Beale visits to Morriss?

You need to research this: "There were other plots to rescue Napoleon from captivity, including one from Texas, where exiled soldiers from the Grande Armée wanted a resurrection of the Napoleonic Empire in America."

Once you have thoroughly researched all of this and traced some of these names back to, Giriard, our Bedford suspects, and a few others you'll understand a lot of the connections required. Until you do this you'll remain in the dark to the critical information that I'm 100% certain you already possess.

When I first introduced the French theory several years ago I was amazed at how little the locals knew in regards to the ties certain families had to these Bobapartist and I assumed they were just denying the existence of these facts because they wanted to keep the information "in house" to their own benefit. Apparently, however, they just want to pretend that it isn't real, and yet it is so very real it can no longer be denied. Now you are a smart man, one who has probably consumed more information about this mystery then of us, and I know you're aware that these French connections do exist, question is, why won't you admit what is so obvious? So what French information are you safeguarding? Come on, spill the beans.....I know you realize these connections do indeed exist.

I'm guessing you're safeguarding that critical information about "those in Bolivar" and the ties to South America.

 

[ECS]

More research and you will iron this out....this goes back to the political differences I've spoken of before, i.e., republican/democrat....north/south...etc.
Murat, you have to extend into the Willis linage and you'll find it;

Elizabeth (Madison) Willis survived her husband and married, in 1753, Richard Beale, brother of Taverner Beale.....

Murat marries a Willis, which brings the Bonapartes into the extended family tree, but wait, it gets even better because
the Elizabeth Madison Willis marriage to Richard Beale also brings Madison into the flock. Madison was involved with the
Louisiana Purchase, a land purchased from Napoleon.

Catherine Daingerfield Willis Gray Murat(1803-1867) married Murat in 1826, after her first husband died. During the War of Northern Aggression, she like many Southern ladies, made clothes and supplied other goods for the Cause.
She was the Great Grandniece of George Washington, which also brings Washington into the "flock".

 

[bigscoop]

Catherine Daingerfield Willis Gray Murat(1803-1867) married Murat in 1826, after her first husband died. During the War of Northern Aggression, she like many Southern ladies, made clothes and supplied other goods for the Cause.
She was the Great Grandniece of George Washington, which also brings Washington into the "flock".

Catherine, born 1803; married Atcheson Gray when she was only thirteen years of age (1816); Gray dying within the same year,1816.
She afterwards married Achille Murat, nephew of Napoleon; was with him in England and France, and secured many attentions, both as wife of Napoleon's nephew
and as great-niece of General Washington.

But what you are seriously missing in the big picture is "Bolivar Peninsula" and those Virginians who were part of it. Maybe, if you're lucky,
Franklin will fill you in on all of this, because I know he knows.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Here's the basic argument that some of you keep throwing back in regards to the use of the spelling “connexions”. The argument is VERY unsound.


Your argument poses that the spelling connexions was used in error, or by simple mistake, this either resulting from illiteracy or a natural familiarity with the French spelling of the word, connections, which also appears later in the Beale Pamphlet text.


A) the pamphlet text itself rules out illiteracy and actually presents quite the opposite.
B) if the author used the spelling connexions from a natural familiarity then this certainly suggest that he possessed a strong French presence.
C) your suggesting that the editor and type setter, also a known author, John Sherman, failed to recognize the author's misuse of the spelling.


All of these arguments are most unsound. In fact, the evidence is so overwhelming in favor of design and intent that there can be no question that the use of the spelling was intentional. So why use “connexions” at the very moment when that's exactly what you're asking your readers to do, to make the “connexions.”


The only possible answer to this is because the spelling of the word was used to aid readers, or as clue, in making those required connections.


Now I realize that some of you, regardless of the evidence to the contrary, are going to continue to deny any possible French connexion to the tale, but this is simply a mistake on your part as the author has made it perfectly clear that this connexion is part of the tale and that the tale bears French influence.

Remember... It was called Beale PAPERS; may well be that someone with French "influence" was one of the writers, in this PATCH-WORK of stories/adventures/papers submitted to the Inner Committee of 1882... dunno.

 

[bigscoop]

Humor me for a moment as at this time I believe ESC may have presented something very close to the possible truth, this being in reference to Beale having stole money from the Texas region.

Maybe he didn't actually steal the money, but maybe someone didn't feel that money was distributed as they felt it should have been? For instance, we know the French refugees never got their distributions because Riguad was very vocal in criticizing Lallemand for his failure to distribute the funds to the survivors of Champ D'Asile, or the Bonapartist. So maybe Lallemand never got those anticipated funds?

Maybe this is why Beale voiced his concern to Morriss that someone might show up claiming to be party of the enterprise, when in fact they weren't "part of his party". Maybe Beale's concern was in regard to the French in Texas?

Laffite claims that he only "recommended to Mr. Hall, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Sherman, and those of Bolivar that they keep to their promise and distribute the funds to the indicated places." Hall and Sherman were connected to Bolivar Peninsula, Long was connected to Bolivar Peninsula as well. So maybe the French refugees felt they were part of the enterprise as well and deserving of a share, when in fact they had abandoned their post so they ended up being left out in the cold? This is very, very possible. Would also explain why the author used connexions and why he remained in the dark with Ward as his agent. It would also explain why Bonaparte agents were snooping around for that property years later. So maybe Beale never actually stole it, but rather the powers to be simply cut the French out of the deal. Someone had to be financing all of this activity in the west.

This would also be consistent with Monroe's letter to Joseph Bonaparte of 1829 where he utterly denies that the US had committed to paying Tallyrand, Joseph, and others for services rendered.

Add to this that George Graham, Banker and ex interim secretary of war, was sent into the region by Monroe, where Graham made contact with all of these insurgent parties. Lallemand left with Graham promising to return to rebuild anew but he never did. So what changed from the time he left with George Graham to cause him to change his mind?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Humor me for a moment as at this time I believe ESC may have presented something very close to the possible truth, this being in reference to Beale having stole money from the Texas region.

Maybe he didn't actually steal the money, but maybe someone didn't feel that money was distributed as they felt it should have been? For instance, we know the French refugees never got their distributions because Riguad was very vocal in criticizing Lallemand for his failure to distribute the funds to the survivors of Champ D'Asile, or the Bonapartist. So maybe Lallemand never got those anticipated funds?

Maybe this is why Beale voiced his concern to Morriss that someone might show up claiming to be party of the enterprise, when in fact they weren't "part of his party". Maybe Beale's concern was in regard to the French in Texas?

Laffite claims that he only "recommended to Mr. Hall, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Sherman, and those of Bolivar that they keep to their promise and distribute the funds to the indicated places." Hall and Sherman were connected to Bolivar Peninsula, Long was connected to Bolivar Peninsula as well. So maybe the French refugees felt they were part of the enterprise as well and deserving of a share, when in fact they had abandoned their post so they ended up being left out in the cold? This is very, very possible. Would also explain why the author used connexions and why he remained in the dark with Ward as his agent. It would also explain why Bonaparte agents were snooping around for that property years later. So maybe Beale never actually stole it, but rather the powers to be simply cut the French out of the deal. Someone had to be financing all of this activity in the west.

This would also be consistent with Monroe's letter to Joseph Bonaparte of 1829 where he utterly denies that the US had committed to paying Tallyrand, Joseph, and others for services rendered.

Add to this that George Graham, Banker and ex interim secretary of war, was sent into the region by Monroe, where Graham made contact with all of these insurgent parties. Lallemand left with Graham promising to return to rebuild anew but he never did. So what changed from the time he left with George Graham to cause him to change his mind?

Monroe...? Monroe Doctrine stopped 'em "DEAD-IN-THE-WATER". THAT was in 1823... SAME year, that Thomas "Jr." Beale died...

 

[bigscoop]

Monroe...? Monroe Doctrine stopped 'em "DEAD-IN-THE-WATER". THAT was in 1823... SAME year, that Thomas "Jr." Beale died...

Good point, the Monroe Doctrine did crush things, but only if they were of foreign nation, which some were.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Good point, the Monroe Doctrine did crush things, but only if they were of foreign nation, which some were.

HA! MOST of 'em were! French, Brits, Spanish...

 

[ECS]

...

Laffite claims that he only "recommended to Mr. Hall, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Sherman, and those of Bolivar that they keep to their promise and distribute the funds to the indicated places." Hall and Sherman were connected to Bolivar Peninsula..

Captain of the Canton Co's ship Torpedo, Mathew Sherman,was connected to the Bolivar Peninsula?
Now Capt James Campbell was one of Lafitte's privateers, and had a connexion .
Dominick Augustus Hall was district attorney of New Orleans, and convinced Andrew Jackson to accept Lafitte and his men to fight the British at the Battle of New Orleans.Hall also pushed the US government to pardon Lafitte for his various crimes for his service to the US in that War.
Lafitte sold out Long to the Spanish-so what is the Beale connexion with dropping Long's name into the mix?
Its like you are playing 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon with everyone who lived during the "Beale event"period.
This person is related to his person who was a Bonapartist who talked to someone in New Orleans who claimed he knew this guy who...and it goes on and on and on with no true resolution, just speculation.