Diamonds VS Silver

[bigscoop]

True, weight during transportation would be one advantage, but can anyone think of another advantage?

 

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[bigscoop]

There might have been another reason, depending on the circumstances.

Lets say I put a bar of Spanish silver in your right hand and several diamonds of equal value in your left. Besides weight, what might be the other difference in these two forms of wealth?

In the early 1800's diamonds were untraceable, whereas, not true with Spanish silver as all of it was marked. "If" the detailed wealth was in the form of processed Spanish gold and silver then money laundering suddenly becomes a BIG issue. So "if" the wealth was in the form of Spanish gold and silver then I wonder how long it would have taken to turn all of that Spanish gold and silver into untraceable forms of wealth? Years, no doubt, if someone was wishing not to get caught.

 

[bigscoop]

The point being this.....if the wealth had been legally obtained then there would have existed absolutely no reason for hiding it. Had the adventure actually taken place and the territory from which the wealth had been taken a US territory then it's a fairly simple matter, no need to hide anything. But if that wealth was illegally taken and it could be traced back to its source.....HUGE issue, for sure.

 

[bigscoop]

I believe TJB traded the silver to a silversmith in exchange for jewelry already made with rubies, sapphires and diamonds as well. I don't think he traded it for just diamonds. It says in exchange for $13,000 in jewelry. I have a list of all the jewelers in St. Louis at that time with their ads in the newspapers.

In the early 1800's, if you were going to launder a huge stash of identifiable and illegally obtained wealth there becomes two huge issues. First, who would be able to launder such a large amount at once? Probably nobody so most likely it would have to be done a little at a time and only through extremely trusted sources.

And second, how would you go about laundering this illegal and identifiable wealth? As I've stated before in these threads, big money always leaves a trail, perhaps not so true with smaller amounts.

 

[bigscoop]

I'm mainly referring to the big picture, the total of the two alleged deposits. The alleged St. Louis exchange was very small potatoes by comparison.

 

[ECS]

TJB could have easily laundered the silver with William Clark and Julia his wife surely he had $13,000 in jewelry.

Not without being shot!

 

[ECS]

It all goes back to a certain duel where all of this began.

 

[ECS]

True, weight during transportation would be one advantage, but can anyone think of another advantage?

"I don't know, but I've been told
its hard to run with the weight of gold"
-The Grateful Dead

 

[ECS]

...and the Kennerly brothers had a mercantile store in St Louis during the years mentioned in the Beale Papers.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I believe TJB traded the silver to a silversmith in exchange for jewelry already made with rubies, sapphires and diamonds as well. I don't think he traded it for just diamonds. It says in exchange for $13,000 in jewelry. I have a list of all the jewelers in St. Louis at that time with their ads in the newspapers.

COULD have been FRENCH Jewelry; St. Loo was MOSTLY "French" at that time... Java Zone is now OPEN...

 

[bigscoop]

There is the one that popped up on my deciphered text fiirst draft Reine or on the final draft was Reme! Yes he was alive and in New Orleans at the time! I miss read the M for a in on in my notes.

The other is not far from were Reme had his hid. And a person with in-laws that was a governor may come in handy.

Do you recall my earlier inquiry about the name beginning with an "R"? I wasn't being coy. If you do and you know who I was referring to then don't mistake this name as being a last name because it isn't. A while back you posted another reference to another name that was a known a close alias of this "R" individual. Are you aware of that?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I'v used a lot of names here. The only one that I know of that had gave money to R was the Baron. He turned out to be the Governor of New Orleans around 1800.

 

[Cryptography]

Do you recall my earlier inquiry about the name beginning with an "R"? I wasn't being coy. If you do and you know who I was referring to then don't mistake this name as being a last name because it isn't. A while back you posted another reference to another name that was a known a close alias of this "R" individual. Are you aware of that?

Cool, but I have seen his name as Remy too. One of only a few people with that name at the time in NO.

Nice thread BS!

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Cool, but I have seen his name as Remy too. One of only a few people with that name at the time in NO.

Nice thread BS!

We are not using the R name for now. Don't want people to know.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Do you recall my earlier inquiry about the name beginning with an "R"? I wasn't being coy. If you do and you know who I was referring to then don't mistake this name as being a last name because it isn't. A while back you posted another reference to another name that was a known a close alias of this "R" individual. Are you aware of that?

The guy left in St Louis possibly?

 

[bigscoop]

"If" this portion of the story holds any truth, along with the exchange of silver for jewels, then there had of been a very solid and reliable connection in St. Louis. This also including the claim that the key would be mailed from this same place if required. This doesn't sound like an enterprise that was merely shooting from the hip. Instead, if this portion of the tale is true, it sounds like a very well organized enterprise. We only assume that a Thomas J. Beale was calling all the shots, but was he? Could very easily be that he was only the man responsible for transporting the goods of others?

 

[bigscoop]

Even today, with all of our increased manpower and technology, we can't slow the influx of illegals and drugs into this country that cross our border from Mexico each and every day. It is a ridiculous conclusion to assume that the Spanish held any measure of control over such a vast territory with their extremely limited means based solely on one or two isolated examples of the era. The Louisiana Territory was absolutely huge compared to our border with Mexico and the Spanish could hardly afford what minuscule resources they did have in the territory.

As for the gold refining, from all that I have researched, 60% would have been considered a huge success in the early 1800's by anyone's standards. Now one has to consider the essayed value of the proposed ore before there could be any fairly accurate estimates on just how many tons of ore would have been processed in order to achieve such an astounding amount, not doubt being at least "hundreds of tons" with even a rich essay value. Now consider the poor and slow process of refining that Colorado ore and we'd be talking an absolutely huge and extremely advanced enterprise that wasn't yet possible. So it appears that science and history is simply suggesting that the pamphlet's proposed mining and refining of that much gold and silver in Colorado during the period in question just wasn't possible even if these thirty adventurers had managed to acquire help from the Indians. So if not from a Colorado mining operation then from where?

 

[bigscoop]

One of the problems with trying to acquire any means of possible direction in these type of stories is trying to get an accurate fix on any possible sources of alternate wealth that might have otherwise resulted in being the catalyst behind the tale. Several years ago when I first started this type of research I was eventually able to identify three or four possible candidates, this then finally being reduced to only one remaining possibility that still coincided with the offered dates of deposits in the pamphlet. This first shipment, valued at roughly 1/2 million at the time, was allegedly made in 1819, the second in 1821. Both of these shipments would have been in the form of identifiable contraband.

Granted, the source of this information was very questionable and highly debated at the time, those 'devils advocates" frequently reminding of this fact and often raising justifiable points of argument, just as they should have done. So from here the research turned to the source material itself, the many intimate details that it offered being picked apart in an effort to establish the possible genuine nature of that source. Based on all of this investigation and research I can say with fair certainty that the source material has proven itself to be routinely accurate and trustworthy. There are also a couple of other curious events in this source material that still baffles even the sternest skeptics and scholars and these revolve around a couple of predictions in the source material that have since materialized, these events offering even more in favor of the material's genuine nature. So where does all of this leave us today?

Well, it leaves us (those involved in this research with me) with only one known good possibility, but sadly that's all it leaves us with, just one good and extremely suspect possibility. The focus now is on three different areas of the research, one of these revolving around a missing letter that we are still actively trying to locate, this letter perhaps containing that smoking gun that we're all after? This letter was part of a chain of correspondences that involved the discussion, argument, and utter denial of alleged promised "payments for services rendered." The claimants in this exchange having been directly involved with the perpetrators of the two detailed shipments of wealth in question. Hopefully we will soon get our hands on that letter so we can review its exact contents. At the time of this documented exchange, 1829, the claimant is in,.....where else but, Richmond Virginia, some of our other suspects having paid him timely visits during his extended stay in Richmond. Incidentally, this same individual also held close and good relations with influential people in St. Louis, New Orleans, and also the the Lynchburg and Bedford areas, as did some of his suspected co-conspirators who were also in Richmond at the same time.

What is so interesting in this possibility is that it leaves the exact suspected circumstances already explained in regards to the necessity for hiding wealth, this not only being due to the illegal nature of the amassed wealth but also due to the implications that its unthinkable and wanted discovery would expose. So in this there is actually two very good reasons for having hidden this wealth and the suspected business at hand. What are the odds that these circumstances actually existed? At this juncture I would say, quite good. What are the odds that these circumstances may have resulted in the Bealle pamphlet story? Again, at this juncture I would also say, quite good. What are the odds that any portion of this alleged hidden wealth still remains? At this juncture I would say, quite poor, if not dismal, at best.

One has to remember that the letter from St. Louis was only to arrive to Morriss if his services were eventually required. Might be good and practical reason why he never got the letter seeings how several of our suspects are still alive and well long after the end of the alleged ten-year term. Odd that all of our identified suspects ended up living out the rest of their lives in financial comfort, as did their children. So who knows, maybe there's some measure of truth to the tale after all?

 

[bigscoop]

That letter was found in Roanoke, VA at the Black Horse Tavern in the 1930's by an eight year old girl still living by the name of Claudine Fulton Ellis. The letter was in a large family Bible. In the back of the Bible was the names of TJB's Party. I believe this was accurate by the Mrs. Ellis. She tried to relocate the letter for years. At one time it was at Hollins College in Roanoke, Va. Then the teacher was transferred to Appalachian State University where he was killed in an automobile accident. But the trail did not end here. The letter was sent to a cryptologist in the Washington, D. C. area. There was also another copy of this letter and the map that was contained in the Bible. Claudine had made a copy and hid it in the fireplace within the Blackhorse Tavern. When her mother moved across the road from the tavern another woman moved into the Tavern. Claudine searched for her until about eight years ago found her and the box that the Bible had been contained in but the letter was gone and the names had been torn from the back of the Bible. You can keep looking for this letter if it is the one you are searching for but most likely neither the letter or it's copy may never be found.

Not the letter I'm talking about. The one I'm talking about doesn't revolve around second hand information. We actually know that this letter really existed and that it still exist. One of us just has to find the time to be on location so we can sort through the HUGE pile of materials to locate it. There has been a lot of claims and rumors coming out of the localized area over the years that just isn't reliable so I wouldn't put too much stock in yet another disappearing evidence claim.

 

[bigscoop]

Not a disappearing evidence claim to me. The letters you seek about Joseph Bonapart and Jean Lafitte now that will do no one any good. Did you know that Joseph Bnapart owned over 150,000 acres in the northern part of New York? Carry on even if you find the letter it will do you nor us any good with the Beale Treasure. Local information is better because all the people in the puzzle were from this area.

This is the problem with the mystery at hand, too much local clinging to the notion that all of the alleged participants must remain local lore without any significant facts to support the notion, and so it turns into a localized romance and often with obvious benefits for keeping it all localized. The mystery itself brings a lot of revenue into the local economy, etc. So for these reasons all of the local lore must be realized as nothing more then potential interesting side bars. Just WAY TOO MUCH he-said-she-said coming out of the region without any reliable or supporting evidence whatsoever.

As for your suspicion that I'm referring to a J. Bonaparte & Laffite letter, this is a wrong assumption. Consider the following, we know that if these deposits did actually exist that they did not originate from the Colorado territory and that they were were not the result of naturally occurring mineral deposits. This means that "if" the deposits were real then that wealth was in the form of identifiable wealth, i.e., currency or the result of already refined and processed ores. If the later is the case then this was a well planned enterprise by people who already had the means necessary to pull it off. Does this sound like 30 simple local adventurers to you? No, not a chance. Big money always resides around big money and influence, the dream of otherwise simple and common folks pulling off such an enormous scheme simply being the unrealistic dream of simple people who have no idea what it would have really required, this being a lot of advanced planning and an extreme amount of experienced resources.