The Fiction Theory

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bigscoop

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There have been some interesting statements made in these forums lately but perhaps the most profound statement of them all is the one that states that “the only existing evidence in support of the fiction theory is the Beale Pamphlet itself.” Actually, this is an extremely strong supporting piece of evidence simply because it is all that there is.

Truth be told there is absolutely no existing evidence in support that the story is anything else but fiction, all be it, there is an endless stream of theories to the contrary, as one might expect.

Years ago these theories were generally accepted possibilities but today we have a much keener insight into the Beale Papers and we are armed with the knowledge that the author wasn't telling the truth in certain areas of his tale. Add to this that once we continued to dissect the Beale Paper text we began to discover several inaccuracies in the tale. So yes, the Beale Pamphlet itself does present a case that the work is nothing more then a simple fabrication, in fact, it presents a very strong case. And, when we consider the fact there is absolutely no existing evidence that it is anything else but a complete fabrication then the fiction theory presents an extremely strong case, indeed. Certainly, once all of the “existing evidence” is examined, the fiction theory definitely deserves the number one spot.

However, can the fiction theory be “conclusively” proven? Perhaps it can if we simply examine the one constant that exist in all of the other theories, this residing around the fact that in all of these theories except one, they all completely ignore the existence of the inaccuracies and discrepancies in the author's tale. Why? In simple explanation they do this because the acceptance of all of these existing inaccuracies and discrepancies would also prove the end to their theories, plain and simple. So very clearly we have to distance ourselves from those theories who continue to deny the existence of these cold hard facts, which is basically just about all of them. This condition, of course, then also provides even more strong evidence in support of the fiction theory.

Over the years individuals such myself and ECS have carried out extended debates in regards to the fiction theory, not so much as to its legitimacy, as many might assume, but rather as to the establishing of all the who's and why's and how's etc., etc., etc., which in my mind can never be proven or conclusively established. However, make no mistake, the fiction theory is by far the strongest theory on the table.

So what about all of the inaccuracies and discrepancies in the story, what do they establish that is so telling? Well they establish, without question, that the authors of the pamphlet and ciphers and letters shared the same degree of knowledge, if in fact, they were not the same person, which is very-very likely. Now mind you, all of this fact is contained with the pamphlet itself, which brings us back to the very profound statement that, “the pamphlet is the only existing evidence that the story is a complete work of fiction.” as ironic as it is, this ends up being an extremely strong, extremely profound, and an extremely accurate statement.

So for all of you Beale theorist out there who wish to present a summation that outlines something other then the Beale pamphlet being a work of complete fiction you need to take all of the undeniable discrepancies and inaccuracies in the story into account. Otherwise all of these contrary theories will continue to present huge fails. :thumbsup:
 

Rebel - KGC

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HOWEVER, I think it is FACTION... FICTION based on FACTS! Want ONE "FACT"...? CSA Max DID exist... ANOTHER...? James Beverly WARD is PROVEN by Lynchburg, Va. history to be REAL! There ARE others, such as Washington Hotel DID exist... in 1823; before that, Robert MORRIS (Ex-Mayor - 1813) DID rent out rooms in his HUGE Home, near today's Texas Inn (5th St. & Main). MORE later...
 

ECS

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...as well as (Rev Charles Green)Clay, (Col Issac) Coles, (Capt William)Witcher, and Chief Justice John Marshall.
I feel that the names were added to provide a believable credence to the Beale story.
 

Rebel - KGC

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YEP! You see... bits & pieces of REAL History were submitted (PAPERS) of people, places, events... compiled into ONE HUGE FACTION; why the Pamphlet was called THE BEALE PAPERS. AND! Allegedly, used as a COVER-UP for the CSA TREASURY - WR (WESTERN REGION).
 

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Rebel - KGC

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PV was "RIGHT ON" in his last book, on the Beale Treasure... a FACTION NOVEL; CONFEDERATE TREASURE COVER-UP: Duty, Honor, & Deceit. From the back cover... "The intrigue begins in the final CHAOTIC days of the Civil War (aka CONFEDERATE WAR). An ELITE team of VMI Officers (Scottish Rite Freemasons/KGC) undertake a COVERT MISSION to hide part of the Confederate Treasury ( VA WESTERN REGION). RUSES & use of a TANGLED "WEB"... get the book & read it for yourself. It WOULD help if you know Civil War History... like I do.
 

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Rebel - KGC

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It IS interesting... PV wrote of this in his second book... "off-loading" COFFINS of REBEL "WAR DEADS" at THAXON SWITCH (V & T Rail Road), heading to a near-by barn, etc. SO! Check it OUT!
 

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ECS

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PV was "RIGHT ON" in his last book, on the Beale Treasure... a FACTION NOVEL; CONFEDERATE TREASURE COVER-UP: Duty, Honor, & Deceit. From the back cover... "The intrigue begins in the final CHAOTIC days of the Civil War (aka CONFEDERATE WAR). An ELITE team of VMI Officers (Scottish Rite Freemasons/KGC) undertake a COVERT MISSION to hide part of the Confederate treasury ( VA WESTERN REGION). RUSES & use of a TANGLED "WEB"... get the book & read it for yourself. It WOULD help if you know Civil War History... like I do.
One of Ward's Hutter cousins was a VMI grad, and friend Max Guggenheimer served in the Confederacy.
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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All of this is exactly how all of these other theories are manufactured, because there are no clearly defined limitations to limit all of the speculation. However, and still to the point of this thread, all of this still fails to incorporate/address the existing inaccuracies and discrepancies in the tale. And not only this but all of this is the same old/type of information that has been circulating for years without any resolve/apparent connection/reason. In just these few post the Freemasons, KGC, and CSA have come into play.
 

Rebel - KGC

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One of Ward's Hutter cousins was a VMI grad, and friend Max Guggenheimer served in the Confederacy.
HA! Maj. EF HUTTER was a VMI Grad; THAT in itself... is HUGE! B/C HE saved Vatel's LAW OF NATIONS! SECRET CSA Gov't book. Yes, CSA MAX was WIA... AND! Still was part of the HOME GUARD... in defense of Lynchburg, Va. during the CONFEDERATE WAR.
 

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Rebel - KGC

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All of this is exactly how all of these other theories are manufactured, because there are no clearly defined limitations to limit all of the speculation. However, and still to the point of this thread, all of this still fails to incorporate/address the existing inaccuracies and discrepancies in the tale. And not only this but all of this is the same old/type of information that has been circulating for years without any resolve/apparent connection/reason. In just these few post the Freemasons, KGC, and CSA have come into play.
Just "up-dates" from "on-going" R & I... YOU are still stuck in the past of the 1885 edition. AND! "FACTION", today was once known as "HISTORICAL FICTION".
 

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bigscoop

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Just "up-dates" from "on-going" R & I... YOU are still stuck in the past of the 1885 edition. AND! "FACTION", today was once known as "HISTORICAL FICTION".

Not stuck in any of PV's books, not at all. Nor am I stuck in KGC, CSA, Freemason, or even the local history and mythology of it all.
 

Rebel - KGC

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Not stuck in any of PV's books, not at all. Nor am I stuck in KGC, CSA, Freemason, or even the local history and mythology of it all.
HA! NOT what I wrote... you ARE stuck in the PAST of events of the "BP" Pamphlet; NEVER "said" a WORD about, PV, KGC, CSA, Freemason, local history/mythology. YOU refuse to "see" updates as provided by R & I as "we" find it...?
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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HA! NOT what I wrote... you ARE stuck in the PAST of events of the "BP" Pamphlet; NEVER "said" a WORD about, PV, KGC, CSA, Freemason, local history/mythology. YOU refuse to "see" updates as provided by R & I as "we" find it...?

I don't refuse to see it, Reb, not at all. I just don't see it as having any established direct connection to the mystery at hand.
 

releventchair

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Here let me clear things up a little.....:laughing7: I'm due for a wild one to pitch.

Pa. 121st Brigade. Origin 1862.( It was the second year....)
In 1863 they became part of the 5th.
2 Biddles,a Col. Chapman Biddle and a Col. Alexander Biddle.

Going backwards in letter of alphabet arrangement to get BEAL..( To equate a number to a letter..letter = number in alphabet but forward.)
1862 121st 12 = letter L. 1=A. 1863 5th =E. 1864 = B..as in Biddle..Col. Alexander honorably discharged.
(Col. Chapman Biddle out in 1863.)

Who was Nicholas Biddle and his relation to Alexander?
Second Bank of the United States (1816-1836) < A Brief History of Central Banking in the United States - Edward Flaherty < General < Essays < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond
 

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ECS

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There have been some interesting statements made in these forums lately but perhaps the most profound statement of them all is the one that states that “the only existing evidence in support of the fiction theory is the Beale Pamphlet itself.” Actually, this is an extremely strong supporting piece of evidence simply because it is all that there is.

Truth be told there is absolutely no existing evidence in support that the story is anything else but fiction, all be it, there is an endless stream of theories to the contrary, as one might expect.

Years ago these theories were generally accepted possibilities but today we have a much keener insight into the Beale Papers and we are armed with the knowledge that the author wasn't telling the truth in certain areas of his tale. Add to this that once we continued to dissect the Beale Paper text we began to discover several inaccuracies in the tale. So yes, the Beale Pamphlet itself does present a case that the work is nothing more then a simple fabrication, in fact, it presents a very strong case. And, when we consider the fact there is absolutely no existing evidence that it is anything else but a complete fabrication then the fiction theory presents an extremely strong case, indeed. Certainly, once all of the “existing evidence” is examined, the fiction theory definitely deserves the number one spot.

However, can the fiction theory be “conclusively” proven? Perhaps it can if we simply examine the one constant that exist in all of the other theories, this residing around the fact that in all of these theories except one, they all completely ignore the existence of the inaccuracies and discrepancies in the author's tale. Why? In simple explanation they do this because the acceptance of all of these existing inaccuracies and discrepancies would also prove the end to their theories, plain and simple. So very clearly we have to distance ourselves from those theories who continue to deny the existence of these cold hard facts, which is basically just about all of them. This condition, of course, then also provides even more strong evidence in support of the fiction theory.

Over the years individuals such myself and ECS have carried out extended debates in regards to the fiction theory, not so much as to its legitimacy, as many might assume, but rather as to the establishing of all the who's and why's and how's etc., etc., etc., which in my mind can never be proven or conclusively established. However, make no mistake, the fiction theory is by far the strongest theory on the table.

So what about all of the inaccuracies and discrepancies in the story, what do they establish that is so telling? Well they establish, without question, that the authors of the pamphlet and ciphers and letters shared the same degree of knowledge, if in fact, they were not the same person, which is very-very likely. Now mind you, all of this fact is contained with the pamphlet itself, which brings us back to the very profound statement that, “the pamphlet is the only existing evidence that the story is a complete work of fiction.” as ironic as it is, this ends up being an extremely strong, extremely profound, and an extremely accurate statement.

So for all of you Beale theorist out there who wish to present a summation that outlines something other then the Beale pamphlet being a work of complete fiction you need to take all of the undeniable discrepancies and inaccuracies in the story into account. Otherwise all of these contrary theories will continue to present huge fails. :thumbsup:
...and the very lack of any proof outside of the Beale Papers that can confirm anything in the narrative text- from the letters which are the basis of the tale to Beale's stay at Morriss's and Buford's, to the "unknown author's" meeting with Morriss and contacting Ward.
No evidence whatsoever which leads to all manner of speculative theories from Spanish mines to Adams-Onis Treaty to pirate connexions, to endless debates on who was the real Thomas J Beale of the dime novel, which as Bigscoop mentioned in the above post, will always present "huge fails".
 

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