Possible Alternate Solutions

[bigscoop]

Since we know the source of the wealth couldn't have come from the region detailed in the Beale papers this thread is specifically for the discussion of possible alternate sources of the alleged Beale treasure. Keep in mind that extensive research has pretty much eliminated any chance that the wealth could have been mined by the party, regardless where it may it may have been allegedly mined. In determining this three factors carry the decisive weight in this conclusion, the first being the shear volume of the alleged wealth and the second being the short amount of time in which that wealth was amassed. And the third factor revolves around the fact that available processes for separating the silver from matrix allowed for a huge amount of loss, which only adds more credibility to factors 1 $ 2.

Along with the above there are also other factors that come into play, some of these contained in the author's narration which provide strong evidence that this alleged undertaking wasn't the result of thirty simple men, but rather it was most likely a well organized affair with advance planning. So with all of this in mind, and sticking to the dates and time frames offered in the narration, the window of opportunity and the purpose for the transferring of such wealth becomes extremely small, indeed.

So, if the wealth wasn't mined then where else might it have come from, and why?

 

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[bigscoop]

Here's where I'm personally at with all of this. I've said it before but I'll say it again. "Huge wealth is generally the product of big business." While it is nice to romance the ideal of the little guy blindly striking it rich it isn't a very practical or realistic notion. When one studies the details offered in the narration then it becomes quite obvious that timing of each deposit was far too consistent from one year to the next, this then requiring a lot of prior arrangements at both ends. The ten-year term, and the fact that someone felt it necessary to be cautious of imposters also implies that there was a prior agreement in place and that there was also likely an recognizable third to be feared.

From here I also have to wonder why, in the middle of what is already a most successful and gainful enterprise, did someone feel it necessary to enact a third party at all unless there was something, or someone, not to trust, this also taking place as the author makes mention of his fear of potential imposters? It just seems to me that this individual had found himself caught in the middle of something that was worthy of his not trusting the situation and possibly a prior agreement. also, thirty common men had absolutely no reason whatsoever to risk going back given that they had already allegedly amassed enough wealth to make them some of the richest men in the country. And here again, why the ten-year term for all of these same reasons?

So for me it's as simple as this, this one, if there is an alternate solution to the mystery and the source of the wealth, then it has either government or huge and influential business written all over it, or most likely, both. On the other hand, I'm also fully aware that it could all just be a simple work of fiction as well.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

COVER-STORY! HUGE WEALTH was WESTERN Virginia "portion" of the CSA TREASURY (GOLD BARS, SILVER BARS - ALL melted down from GOLD/SILVER 'coins', etc).... & JEWELRY donated by SOUTHERN Ladies to help the "SOUTHERN CAUSE. GOLD/SILVER BARS w/o the CSA "stamp". ALL went to Lynchburg, Va. (LAST state capital of Virginia, April 7-10, 1865)... AND! VMI/Lexington, Va.; Yank "Black Dave" Hunter did it... AND! General Early (CSA) kicked his arse to West Virginia, with "battles", etc. in Lynchburg & Bedford, Va. Gen Early was from Franklin County, Va. & knew this area.

 

[ECS]

CSA Gen Jubal Early was also related to the Risqué extended family bloodline.
It is interesting how some many theories outside of the Beale text can be tied to the family of which Ward and Sherman were a part.

 

[bigscoop]

A) by "all credible accounts" the south was all but broke.
B) if the south would have held this type of wealth then they certainly would have used it to prolong the war, possibly "buying" support from other countries like France, etc.,
C) the south didn't engage in the war only to forfeit their entire way of life so they could hide wealth they simply didn't have, especially when that wealth could have been used to change the outcome of the war.
D) when one tosses aside all of the propaganda and romance that has evolved after the war then the facts clearly speak for themselves, "no possible way that the south had this much wealth."
E) the narration clearly details the events some forty-years predating the Civil War, 1817-1822. The only reference to the Civil War comes in the form of when the author says that he first became aware of those events that took place some 40 years prior.
D) so with all of the above it's pretty certain that the Civil War period couldn't have been an alternate source of the wealth.

However, was someone aware of this prior accumulation of wealth during the Civil War? According to the narration then the answer is an obvious, yes.

 

[bigscoop]

CSA Gen Jubal Early was also related to the Risqué extended family bloodline.
It is interesting how some many theories outside of the Beale text can be tied to the family of which Ward and Sherman were a part.

Let me throw something at you that might be plausible when also considering some other curious aspects regarding the whole localized theory/theme, is it possible that a "nest of spies" scenario could come into play?

 

[franklin]

A) by "all credible accounts" the south was all but broke.
B) if the south would have held this type of wealth then they certainly would have used it to prolong the war, possibly "buying" support from other countries like France, etc.,
C) the south didn't engage in the war only to forfeit their entire way of life so they could hide wealth they simply didn't have, especially when that wealth could have been used to change the outcome of the war.
D) when one tosses aside all of the propaganda and romance that has evolved after the war then the facts clearly speak for themselves, "no possible way that the south had this much wealth."
E) the narration clearly details the events some forty-years predating the Civil War, 1817-1822. The only reference to the Civil War comes in the form of when the author says that he first became aware of those events that took place some 40 years prior.
D) so with all of the above it's pretty certain that the Civil War period couldn't have been an alternate source of the wealth.

However, was someone aware of this prior accumulation of wealth during the Civil War? According to the narration then the answer is an obvious, yes.

I will throw this out there for what it is worth. In 1859 just before the Civil War became a reality the banks in the South had over $59 Million in hard specie that is not counting over $1.3 Million that was coined at the New Orleans Mint after the CSA took the mint over. Now the KGC is different and separate from all of this at the out break of the Civil War the KGC had over 800,000 members all over the world. Most were sent to infilitrate Mexico but when the Civil War began they were all called back home to infiltrate the Yankee States. They were almost all of the CSA CIA or Secret Service with Judah Benjamin as their boss. In Danville it is stated that Judah Benjamin paid Major Edward Sixtus Hutter a large sum of money for back wages, I believe $600. It is also stated that Major Hutter burned the archives of documents of the CSA but I know that over 9 and 1/2 tons of documents were found by the Yankees in Raliegh, N.C. So what was Major Hutter paid for? Remember that Major Hutter was a first cousin to James Beverly Ward and Major Edward Sixtus Hutter's brother was a CSA paymaster, in the early stages of the war he wrote the first check for General Robert E. Lee. There was a lot of strange happenings during that war. When the KGC entered the war they were the organization that pulled all of the CSA Government together. How do you think that the South could have raised an army, set up all branches of the government and fight the strongest nation on Earth to a virtual draw until the South no longer had the men to replace the men that had been killed or wounded. But anyway not to get this thread off on the wrong foot but the CSA assets could very well be the source of the treasure for the Beale Mystery.

There is one other alternative and that is the complete treasure maps of the Knight's Templar which President Thomas Jefferson had access to through and by his teacher, George Wythe. Lots of possibilities. Then again the Beale Treasure Mystery could be complete fabrication of a dime novel. We will continue to research until one of us finds the final solution.

 

[bigscoop]

I will throw this out there for what it is worth. In 1859 just before the Civil War became a reality the banks in the South had over $59 Million in hard specie that is not counting over $1.3 Million that was coined at the New Orleans Mint after the CSA took the mint over. Now the KGC is different and separate from all of this at the out break of the Civil War the KGC had over 800,000 members all over the world. Most were sent to infilitrate Mexico but when the Civil War began they were all called back home to infiltrate the Yankee States. They were almost all of the CSA CIA or Secret Service with Judah Benjamin as their boss. In Danville it is stated that Judah Benjamin paid Major Edward Sixtus Hutter a large sum of money for back wages, I believe $600. It is also stated that Major Hutter burned the archives of documents of the CSA but I know that over 9 and 1/2 tons of documents were found by the Yankees in Raliegh, N.C. So what was Major Hutter paid for? Remember that Major Hutter was a first cousin to James Beverly Ward and Major Edward Sixtus Hutter's brother was a CSA paymaster, in the early stages of the war he wrote the first check for General Robert E. Lee. There was a lot of strange happenings during that war. When the KGC entered the war they were the organization that pulled all of the CSA Government together. How do you think that the South could have raised an army, set up all branches of the government and fight the strongest nation on Earth to a virtual draw until the South no longer had the men to replace the men that had been killed or wounded. But anyway not to get this thread off on the wrong foot but the CSA assets could very well be the source of the treasure for the Beale Mystery.

There is one other alternative and that is the complete treasure maps of the Knight's Templar which President Thomas Jefferson had access to through and by his teacher, George Wythe. Lots of possibilities. Then again the Beale Treasure Mystery could be complete fabrication of a dime novel. We will continue to research until one of us finds the final solution.

Franklin, 1817-1822, this is some 40 years prior to the Civil War. What was left of the CSA treasury at the time of it's alleged disappearance was very minimal, the bulk of their wealth having already been exhausted. And again, the Civil War didn't take place until some 40 years later which pretty much eliminates it from being an alternate source of wealth in 1817-1822. And, if you're suggesting that this wealth was part of the Southern wealth at the beginning of the war then we can all clearly stop looking as it is pretty clear that it was all spent and exhausted during the war effort. Just saying, facts being what they are, the south was near complete financial ruin at the end of the war as was the CSA.

 

[ECS]

To add to Franklin's post, CSA Gen Robert E Lee and wife visited and stayed with Pascal Buford, yes that one of BUFORD's INN. James Beverly Ward's wife was Harriet Otey Buford, born and raised "4 miles from Bufords".

 

[bigscoop]

To add to Franklin's post, CSA Gen Robert E Lee and wife visited and stayed with Pascal Buford, yes that one of BUFORD's INN. James Beverly Ward's wife was Harriet Otey Buford, born and raised "4 miles from Bufords".

Was this in 1817-1822?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

A) by "all credible accounts" the south was all but broke.
B) if the south would have held this type of wealth then they certainly would have used it to prolong the war, possibly "buying" support from other countries like France, etc.,
C) the south didn't engage in the war only to forfeit their entire way of life so they could hide wealth they simply didn't have, especially when that wealth could have been used to change the outcome of the war.
D) when one tosses aside all of the propaganda and romance that has evolved after the war then the facts clearly speak for themselves, "no possible way that the south had this much wealth."
E) the narration clearly details the events some forty-years predating the Civil War, 1817-1822. The only reference to the Civil War comes in the form of when the author says that he first became aware of those events that took place some 40 years prior.
D) so with all of the above it's pretty certain that the Civil War period couldn't have been an alternate source of the wealth.

However, was someone aware of this prior accumulation of wealth during the Civil War? According to the narration then the answer is an obvious, yes.

ID these "credible accounts", please... you MAY need up-dated info.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Was this in 1817-1822?

YER stuck in that "box"...? CONFEDERATE WAR was from 1861-1865; 2nd year of the CW is of GREAT "Note".

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Yer asking for "alternatives", so YOU can "bicker" with posters...?

 

[bigscoop]

Yer asking for "alternatives", so YOU can "bicker" with posters...?

Nope. In fact, I knew this was a bad/useless notion when I started this thread.

 

[ECS]

Nope. In fact, I knew this was a bad/useless notion when I started this thread.

"Trouble ahead, trouble behind, and don't you know that notion has just crossed my mind"
-Grateful Dead

 

[Old Silver]

I, for one, always like to see new theories and thoughts. Fact is, none of us know for sure that the Beale story is true, or if it is, we simply don't know all the truth of it. Why can't we all entertain ideas that may be different from our own? We just might learn something new. I certainly have learned new things by seeing posts of others here.

 

[franklin]

Was this in 1817-1822?

The story was set in 1817 to 1822 but the story was not published or known about until 1885 over 20 years after the Civil War. So it is very likely the money could have came from the CSA Assets. Also the South or CSA was not broke as believed by historians. In the early years of the war the KGC placed all of the hard money of the South in depositories some of the depositories predated the Civil War by 50 years or more. And yes all of this money is still out there. Have you seen how rich the Rockefellers, Chases, Vanderbilts are today most of those assets came from KGC depositories. Have you ever seen the Biltmore Estates in North Carolina built by Vanderbilt's son. There are still companies today that made their fortunes from some of these KGC assets. Once you became wealthy you paid the funds back with interest and that is why they are controlling the world today.

 

[bigscoop]

Well, for the record, and despite what some may assume I believe, let me go on the record and say that, "I do believe it is possible, if not likely, that wealth was transferred in 1817-1822, and perhaps, not exactly for the same reasons or from the same original source as previously suspected."

 

[Old Silver]

Since we know the source of the wealth couldn't have come from the region detailed in the Beale papers this thread is specifically for the discussion of possible alternate sources of the alleged Beale treasure. Keep in mind that extensive research has pretty much eliminated any chance that the wealth could have been mined by the party, regardless where it may it may have been allegedly mined. In determining this three factors carry the decisive weight in this conclusion, the first being the shear volume of the alleged wealth and the second being the short amount of time in which that wealth was amassed. And the third factor revolves around the fact that available processes for separating the silver from matrix allowed for a huge amount of loss, which only adds more credibility to factors 1 $ 2.

Along with the above there are also other factors that come into play, some of these contained in the author's narration which provide strong evidence that this alleged undertaking wasn't the result of thirty simple men, but rather it was most likely a well organized affair with advance planning. So with all of this in mind, and sticking to the dates and time frames offered in the narration, the window of opportunity and the purpose for the transferring of such wealth becomes extremely small, indeed.

So, if the wealth wasn't mined then where else might it have come from, and why?

According to the recounting of the story in the Roanoke times., January 20, 1893: "It is a treasure of more than half a million dollars' worth of pure gold and silver, just as it was taken from the mountains of New Mexico, and thirteen thousand dollars' worth of jewelry, which was secured with the silver, that was burdensome to carry."

So, how much gold and silver would that be, if it was worth just over half a million?

 

[bigscoop]

According to the recounting of the story in the Roanoke times., January 20, 1893: "It is a treasure of more than half a million dollars' worth of pure gold and silver, just as it was taken from the mountains of New Mexico, and thirteen thousand dollars' worth of jewelry, which was secured with the silver, that was burdensome to carry."

So, how much gold and silver would that be, if it was worth just over half a million?

Again, I wouldn't put too much stock in the 1893 article. New Mexico? Where did that come from? "Pure" gold and silver? Secured with the silver? 1/2 million?
When I was in grade school I remember a little exercise where we had to take turns repeating a short sentence and by the time it got all the way around the room it wasn't even the same sentence, or short. This is what happens in these articles, etc.

PS: Given the limited production and distribution, makes one wonder where they got their information? I'm picturing a desperate reporter sitting next to a seriously talking drunk guy in an 1890's version of a tiki-bar.