A LOOK AT JAMES BEVERLY WARD, AGENT OF THE BEALE PAPERS

[masterpoe]

Job pamphlet printer, John William Sherman had to have had a hand written manuscript of the Beale Papers to set the metal type to print the pamphlet.
In whose hand was the manuscript written?
What became of this handwritten copy?
Were the original Beale "letters" and "ciphers" included, or were these items just written in the narrative text as continuity of the story?
Remember, Charles W Button, owner of the print shop and the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIA newspaper stated that his sub-editor, John William Sherman wrote the Beale Papers.
In a 1934 newspaper interview by Mrs Martha Rivers Adams that appeared in THE LYNCHBURG NEWS, Ward's daughter, Adeline Ward McVeigh claimed her father wrote the Beale Papers.
The Buford children, all stating that they had no knowledge of any family history mention of Thomas Beale's stay at Buford's Tavern or of any treasure, and Vincent A Witcher objecting to the use his ancestor's name to give credibility to a common dime novel all lead to the conclusion that the Beale Papers were a work of fiction.
But the question remains:
In whose hand, or hands, was the original manuscript written?

There is no such interview by Mrs Adams! You are not able to prove there is such!

 

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[masterpoe]

...and that, Bigscoop, is quite elementary. When all possible truths have been explores and analyzed, be it all the Beales, expeditions, mines, etc of that time period, which has been done time and time again on these threads and by others, and has been eliminated due to the lack of definitive evidence or "connexion" to the Beale story in the narrative text, what remains by this lack of collaborating outside of the job pamphlet evidence, however unwanted by believers, is the truth-THE BEALE PAPERS ARE A WORK OF FICTION.
Remember, there is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact, and no contemporaries during the publication and sale of the job pamphlet ever came forth to say it was true.

Funny thing someone has done to take your Poe and turn it into proof of a knowledge of the Beale party in the 1820's! Jean is truly the master of the Beale papers!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Funny thing someone has done to take your Poe and turn it into proof of a knowledge of the Beale party in the 1820's! Jean is truly the master of the Beale papers!

LOL!

 

[masterpoe]

LOL!

Young man, we do not laugh at others here, ECS is having much trouble as is. We are laughing with him as he begins to understand he was shamefully out smarted!

 

[ECS]

There is no such interview by Mrs Adams! You are not able to prove there is such!

You believe in an expedition that never happened but not an actual news article from the 1930's that appeared in THE LYNCHBURG NEWS?
Its not my fault its existence doesn't fit with your obvious very limited philosophies.

 

[masterpoe]

You believe in an expedition that never happened but not an actual news article from the 1930's that appeared in THE LYNCHBURG NEWS?
Its not my fault its existence doesn't fit with your obvious very limited philosophies.

I see the Beale Papers but I do not see your article! Did it get lost? I would say you have never even seen it! Just a fictional fabrication of your fictional theories!

 

[ECS]

LOL!

 

[masterpoe]

I see the Beale Papers but I do not see your article! Did it get lost? I would say you have never even seen it! Just a fictional fabrication of your fictional theories!

ECS, you come off like a salesperson, used car salesman with a crappy car you think you can pass off as a new one!

 

[ECS]

You are mildly amusing as always in you ramblings, MP.
It would be nice if you actually posted something of substance at least once, instead of constantly derailing thread topics.

 

[ECS]

... I can only confirm to my own satisfaction that the narration contains certain dependencies that render some of that information as being inaccurate and misleading. I have seen nothing that confirms/verifies the true nature of the narration, it's unknown author, or the source...

That may well be because the entire Beale narrative is a mélange of several sources combined with in the imagination of the author who wanted to be unknown.

 

[bigscoop]

Can you, or anyone else prove otherwise?
Hasn't happened in 130 years.

Nope! And that's sort of my point. So many certain claims, not one stitch of verifiable or conclusive evidence in support of any of them. We've all been guilty of it at one time or another, I know I have been. But does this mean some of these claims weren't possibly accurate or close to target? Does this mean you are inaccurate in your claims? Nope, just means that nobody can provide that smoking gun we've talked about many-many times. You've even posted it yourself, "circumstantial evidence proves absolutely nothing" so why continue to make certain claim on only that circumstantial evidence? Presenting a theory or a thought or a notion is one thing, but to lay claim of remedy without that smoking gun? "Lack of a smoking gun to anything else does not provide smoking gun for another." At best, it just provides some fairly strong circumstantial evidence.

 

[ECS]

A best, Bigscoop, very strong circumstantial evidence.
No outside of the Beale Papers collaboration of anything in the job pamphlet story, a contemporary of 1885 who advertised the job pamphlet stating the author, the children of Pascal Buford having no knowledge of the Beale stay, treasure or story, that the Beale story remained totally forgotten until the Hart Papers were published in the 1950's, and that You, my friend, attempt constantly, to discover the true story behind the Beale story, be it Champ d' Asile, Adams-Onis Treaty, Bonapartism, the opium trade, Pirate Lafitte, or a freeman of color Alderman of Jackson Ward.
All these presented theories of yours support the fact that you are just like me, in that we both believe the Beale story as written, is fiction.
Our differences are the direction in which we approach this- you are still looking for an alternative perilous adventure or Beale story, while I look at those involved in the creation, copyright, printing, publishing, advertising, sale, and the eventual withdrawal from sale by fire. There are many causes and effects on this path of research that reveal that the Beale Papers and ciphers are a dime novel work of fiction, conceived for profit, unrealized due to several family objections.

 

[bigscoop]

A best, Bigscoop, very strong circumstantial evidence.
No outside of the Beale Papers collaboration of anything in the job pamphlet story, a contemporary of 1885 who advertised the job pamphlet stating the author, the children of Pascal Buford having no knowledge of the Beale stay, treasure or story, that the Beale story remained totally forgotten until the Hart Papers were published in the 1950's, and that You, my friend, attempt constantly, to discover the true story behind the Beale story, be it Champ d' Asile, Adams-Onis Treaty, Bonapartism, the opium trade, Pirate Lafitte, or a freeman of color Alderman of Jackson Ward.
All these presented theories of yours support the fact that you are just like me, in that we both believe the Beale story as written, is fiction.
Our differences are the direction in which we approach this- you are still looking for an alternative perilous adventure or Beale story, while I look at those involved in the creation, copyright, printing, publishing, advertising, sale, and the eventual withdrawal from sale by fire. There are many causes and effects on this path of research that reveal that the Beale Papers and ciphers are a dime novel work of fiction, conceived for profit, unrealized due to several family objections.

No, my friend, you're drawing upon your own opinions again as I have never stated that I feel the work is a work of fiction, though I have supported that theory as being a strong possibility, but have never laid claim that it was a work of fiction....that's you speaking for me and not listening with objective ears. And unlike you, I'm still open to other reasonable possibilities and I still entertain them. I still chance of alternate possibilities and presume to know as a condition of fact the author's true intentions or motivations because I am fully aware that this information isn't available. Do I have theories, a breast of still-looming possibilities? Yep, but only because I can't disprove them to my own satisfaction or confirm your claim that the narration was just a simple dime novel. Unbiased, objective, as best as the current information and research allows.

 

[masterpoe]

Nope! And that's sort of my point. So many certain claims, not one stitch of verifiable or conclusive evidence in support of any of them. We've all been guilty of it at one time or another, I know I have been. But does this mean some of these claims weren't possibly accurate or close to target? Does this mean you are inaccurate in your claims? Nope, just means that nobody can provide that smoking gun we've talked about many-many times. You've even posted it yourself, "circumstantial evidence proves absolutely nothing" so why continue to make certain claim on only that circumstantial evidence? Presenting a theory or a thought or a notion is one thing, but to lay claim of remedy without that smoking gun? "Lack of a smoking gun to anything else does not provide smoking gun for another." At best, it just provides some fairly strong circumstantial evidence.

Yes, I am new to the beale excursion. There is a story in my homelands about a boy who finds a poor dog and feeds it back to health. Some time after that the guard at the gate finds out and kills the animal with his boot. Turned out that the animal was a rat from a vessel that was in Port one day a few months back. The boy was upset but one of the kings wives presented him with a real dog soon and with the true dog he found peace. Find the true dog of the beale story and you shall bring peace not pestilences.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Yes, I am new to the beale excursion. There is a story in my homelands about a boy who finds a poor dog and feeds it back to health. Some time after that the guard at the gate finds out and kills the animal with his boot. Turned out that the animal was a rat from a vessel that was in Port one day a few months back. The boy was upset but one of the kings wives presented him with a real dog soon and with the true dog he found peace. Find the true dog of the beale story and you shall bring peace not pestilences.

LOL!

 

[ECS]

No, my friend, you're drawing upon your own opinions again as I have never stated that I feel the work is a work of fiction, though I have supported that theory as being a strong possibility, but have never laid claim that it was a work of fiction....that's you speaking for me and not listening with objective ears. And unlike you, I'm still open to other reasonable possibilities and I still entertain them. I still chance of alternate possibilities and presume to know as a condition of fact the author's true intentions or motivations because I am fully aware that this information isn't available. Do I have theories, a breast of still-looming possibilities? Yep, but only because I can't disprove them to my own satisfaction or confirm your claim that the narration was just a simple dime novel. Unbiased, objective, as best as the current information and research allows.

I am not the first or the last to hold the opinion that Ward's 1885 Beale Papers was a work of fiction.
As Elizabeth Smith Friedman, a codebreaker contacted by the Harts commented in the 1930's:" was printed for the express purpose of selling copies of it for profit".
You have spent many years of research in search of those "reasonable possibilities", but never achieving that goal, only exhausting and eliminating those possibilities.
Remember, when you eliminate all possibilities what remains, even if you find it unacceptable to your firmly held beliefs, is the truth.
After all those years of researching alternatives, what remains is that Ward's 1885 Beale Papers was a work of fiction with the "express purpose of selling copies for profit".

 

[bigscoop]

I am not the first or the last to hold the opinion that Ward's 1885 Beale Papers was a work of fiction.
As Elizabeth Smith Friedman, a codebreaker contacted by the Harts commented in the 1930's:" was printed for the express purpose of selling copies of it for profit".
You have spent many years of research in search of those "reasonable possibilities", but never achieving that goal, only exhausting and eliminating those possibilities.
Remember, when you eliminate all possibilities what remains, even if you find it unacceptable to your firmly held beliefs, is the truth.
After all those years of researching alternatives, what remains is that Ward's 1885 Beale Papers was a work of fiction with the "express purpose of selling copies for profit".

.....and you may end up being correct, who can say for sure at this point? Certainly not you or me as we have no means of verifying or confirming those claims, whatever they may be. That's the point you are dodging......"you can't verify/confirm the fiction for entertainment claim." If you could then these debates of other possibilities couldn't exist. Just saying, you can have a theory, push it all you like, but you can't claim the fiction for parlor entertainment to be fact, as you do, because you can't establish it to be fact." I wish you could......but the absence of directly connecting evidence to anything else does not confirm the fiction claim. It's just an existing circumstance within the mystery. So while I appreciate and understand your firm and unrelenting posture and position in the debate I also fully realize that you hold that posture and position simply due to the lack of directly connecting evidence to anything else, which is something of a paradox since your certain claim lacks that same directly connecting evidence. Do you get where I'm coming from? If you can lay your claim as a matter of fact then so shale exist the validity of all other unconfirmed claims as matters of fact. Just say.....ducks and geese swim in the same waters all the time.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

WHAT "evidence" do you want...? Charlie Button ALREADY stated that one of his sub-editors wrote it! Button was EDITOR/OWNER of the Newspaper (which became the NEWS-ADVANCE).
"Google" For Good and Bad, Civil War Editor was Man of HIS times

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I have in my hands, the ORIGINAL newspaper of the News-Advance (Lynchburg, Va.) Sunday, April 19, 2015; p. B-3. Charlie Button "ended his newspaper career with a bizarre interlude in which he sold the DAILY VIRGINIAN to one of his sub-editors (John W. Sherman & his brother; DOCUMENTED), WHO HAD EARLIER WRITTEN A DIME NOVEL THAT MAY HAVE SPARKED THE BEALE TREASURE LEGEND, ABOUT A HOARD OF GOLD BURIED IN BEDFORD." THERE YA GO!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

John William Sherman was known as a writer of ...? (YOUR thought here). (IMHO... FACTION!). Heh...