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Thread: Looking for the original documents from the unknown author

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  1. #31

    Jun 2007
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    Back to "OP"; The original "documents"...? Such as...? NOTHING found in Lynchburg, Va.
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  2. #32
    7th Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Laf View Post
    The only thing I see used in the letters, is to be a legal issue .
    1. The letters from Beale to Morriss sent in the mail all could have read .
    2. The letters in the box that only if Beale and his crew died someone could read .
    3. Closer to the Truth is the cipher that no one had the key too page 1 and 3 . Beale knew someone could have found DOI for page 2, but we have the real ciphers that no one else seems to have decoded but me .
    So, Beale made these letters to Morriss as not to incriminate himself and other as to what was really going on?

  3. #33
    us
    Jack

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    Quote Originally Posted by masterpoe View Post
    So, Beale made these letters to Morriss as not to incriminate himself and other as to what was really going on?
    If you are on a treasure hunt and did not want people to know what you were doing. You would tell them you were going to do something other than search for treasure. It did not have to be something illegal, but just that they did not wish to have a lot of people to know what they were doing. If they were working with the Government or just did not want people finding out about what they were up to that would be why Beale sent the letters in the mail that told of the hunting party. ( As Jean has said before ) the letters in the box would not be read if Beale or one of his people were still alive to retrieve them.

    The box was secure till 1832 in Beale's mind, but still if someone did open it all they could do was to read more letters with more half truths in them. Jean has said that even the cipher that was deciphered back in the 1860's was not all that truthful and had some parts that would be considered misdirects. So if Jean is right there is more to know in the ciphers that he is working with then just what meets the eye in the parts we can read now. I have seen some of what he has uncovered and it really is something that no one ever would have expected. They knew they were going to die and in the parts I have seen that is how it read. Beale wrote it as though they were indeed dead at the time and reflecting back on there lives. I have never seen anything like it other then the letters solders in war had on them to send back to there families if the died in battle.

  4. #34
    ECS
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    They knew they were going to die when Beale was allegedly in St Louis writing and mailing letters to Robert Morris?
    Thomas Beale Sr died September 1820 in New Orleans, the letters are dated 1822.
    So Beale wrote and sent these letters about "going to die" when he was already dead?
    Time to get real, Crypto, and not follow leaders and watch them parking meters.
    I can understand why you have never seen anything like that before-it is another work of fiction generated from another work of fiction to prove that fiction was true.
    It has never been established that anything in the 1885 Beale Papers copyrighted by Ward in 1885 ever actually ever happened, or if the Thomas J Beale ever existed beyond the pages of the job pamphlet.
    If the events in the Beale story never happened outside of the dime novel job pamphlet, then any and all "solved" ciphers, and there have been many over the years, are meaningless.
    In the words of professional codebreaker, Elizabeth Smith Friedman:" the ciphers should be considered in the same light as the myriad "treasure maps" which are sold in the Southern States".
    Last edited by ECS; Sep 13, 2016 at 09:25 AM.
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  5. #35
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    Jack

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    They knew they were going to die when Beale was allegedly in St Louis writing and mailing letters to Robert Morris?
    Thomas Beale Sr died September 1820 in New Orleans, the letters are dated 1822.
    So Beale wrote and sent these letters about "going to die" when he was already dead?
    Time to get real, Crypto, and not follow leaders and watch them parking meters.
    I can understand why you have never seen anything like that before-it is another work of fiction generated from another work of fiction to prove that fiction was true.
    It has never been established that anything in the 1885 Beale Papers copyrighted by Ward in 1885 ever actually ever happened, or if the Thomas J Beale ever existed beyond the pages of the job pamphlet.
    If the events in the Beale story never happened outside of the dime novel job pamphlet, then any and all "solved" ciphers, and there have been many over the years, are meaningless.
    In the words of professional codebreaker, Elizabeth Smith Friedman:" the ciphers should be considered in the same light as the myriad "treasure maps" which are sold in the Southern States".
    You know, I have never seen proof of Cap Thomas Beale Sr's death? So I would say it is possible that he did in deed wright them like you say. For we all know no one has shown proof of his death yet! But we have seen proof that a person in New Orleans can die in 1820 and have his probate in 1823 like Thos Beale Jr did.

    It's End Game post 1036 Laf
    This is proof of two people dying in 1820 and there probate in 1823
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Courrier%20de%20la%20Louisiana%20July%202%201823%20probate%20for%20death%20in%201820.JPG 
Views:	43 
Size:	78.8 KB 
ID:	1358469

  6. #36
    ECS
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    ...and the above post, as with all "evidence" that has originated from Laf, has nothing whatsoever to do with Thomas Beale, or the story contained in Ward's 1885 Beale Papers.
    Once again Beale Sr died September 1820. Jr October 1823, both in New Orleans.
    Can you, or Laf produce solid evidence that can prove that these dates are not correct?

  7. #37
    us
    Jack

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    ...and the above post, as with all "evidence" that has originated from Laf, has nothing whatsoever to do with Thomas Beale, or the story contained in Ward's 1885 Beale Papers.
    Once again Beale Sr died September 1820. Jr October 1823, both in New Orleans.
    Can you, or Laf produce solid evidence that can prove that these dates are not correct?
    One death in 1820 and one probate in 1823.

    Can you prove that Jr or Sr died at all? because all I see here is you can not! Show me a death certificate for 1820 and 1823. You can't prove one thing at all. Without proof Cap Beale Sr is not dead according to the state of Louisiana!I don't have to prove him alive, you need to prove him dead.I have proof that Thos Beale Jr can die in 1820 and his probate can be in 1823 just like the photo above from July 1823.

  8. #38
    us
    Jack

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    ...and the above post, as with all "evidence" that has originated from Laf, has nothing whatsoever to do with Thomas Beale, or the story contained in Ward's 1885 Beale Papers.
    Once again Beale Sr died September 1820. Jr October 1823, both in New Orleans.
    Can you, or Laf produce solid evidence that can prove that these dates are not correct?
    We all know all this information comes from, the same book that made this mistake years ago. Need to go to the source of information not just read other peoples book

  9. #39
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptography View Post
    We all know all this information comes from, the same book that made this mistake years ago. Need to go to the source of information not just read other peoples book
    You and Laf keep posting this misinformation because Laf has convinced himself that Thomas Beale Sr of 10 Canal St New Orleans is the Thomas J Beale character of the Beale Papers, while respected Beale researchers have verified Sr's death date as Sept 1820 and Jr's Oct 1823.
    ...because a dead man can not write and send letters two years after his death, and it makes Laf's cipher "solution" highly questionable.
    As professional codebreaker, William Friedman warned, The Beale Papers was "specifically designed to lure the unwary reader", and with all the effort expended by Laf and you to change the death dates of Beale and his son it appears you both accepted the lure of the unwary reader.

    Instead of trying to change the death dates of Sr and Jr, try presenting real evidence of anything depicted in the Beale Papers narrative text, the buffalo hunt, Beale elected "Captain", the actual existence of the letters to Morriss which form the entire basis of the story- if these can not be documented with solid irreproachable facts then the death dates and solved cipher claims are meaningless.

    OR
    Explain why Ward waited until Pascal Buford and his wife (the only two who could verify if Beale stayed with them during the construction of the treasure vault) before applying for copyright as agent on borrowed letterhead stationary, and why Buford's children had no knowledge of Beale or the treasure vault story.
    Last edited by ECS; Sep 13, 2016 at 07:33 PM.
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  10. #40
    7th Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptography View Post
    One death in 1820 and one probate in 1823.

    Can you prove that Jr or Sr died at all? because all I see here is you can not! Show me a death certificate for 1820 and 1823. You can't prove one thing at all. Without proof Cap Beale Sr is not dead according to the state of Louisiana!I don't have to prove him alive, you need to prove him dead.I have proof that Thos Beale Jr can die in 1820 and his probate can be in 1823 just like the photo above from July 1823.
    This would go hand and hand with the baptism of Octavie Beale that Cap Beale was in attendance in Dec 1822. A Catholic Baptism!

  11. #41
    7th Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by masterpoe View Post
    This would go hand and hand with the baptism of Octavie Beale that Cap Beale was in attendance in Dec 1822. A Catholic Baptism!
    Jean has this paper on his site page Why this info has been a secret from 1819

  12. #42
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    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
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    ECS, you may want to back off of your stance on the issue a bit. But do as you feel you must.....but there are some things Jean has right.
    Last edited by bigscoop; Sep 15, 2016 at 07:32 AM.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  13. #43
    us
    Jun 2012
    Garrett ADS-7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    ECS, you may want to back off of your stance on the issue a bit. But do as you feel you must.....but there are some things Jean has right.
    So Jean has been giving you information. Now we know you have nothing of value.
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  14. #44
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    So Jean has been giving you information. Now we know you have nothing of value.
    I never sad Jean had given me any info, actually quite the opposite. There you go with yet another premature and unfounded notion. I simply said that he had been right about a few things. That's what I said...... Let's deal in recorded facts, as you so request.
    Last edited by bigscoop; Sep 15, 2016 at 11:08 AM.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  15. #45
    us
    Jack

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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    So Jean has been giving you information. Now we know you have nothing of value.
    LOL
    Last edited by Cryptography; Sep 15, 2016 at 11:25 AM.

 

 
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