Transporting Goods

[franklin]

You keep cuddling that simplest of notions.

Now you are posting like Jean just like you know something that others don't. It will still amount to nothing in the end.

 

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[ECS]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo . . . . . . .

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss, . . . . . .

 

[bigscoop]

Now you are posting like Jean just like you know something that others don't. It will still amount to nothing in the end.

There you go again, still focused on the end.

 

[ECS]

There you go again, still focused on the end.

Well, the "game is worth the candle, and we will play it to the end".

 

[franklin]

There you go again, still focused on the end.

bigscoop, I am going to read your post and others post from now on, I see no reason to post because all of this is going no where. We all want to see information that will end this madness that has been going on for over 130 years. I am tired of reading all of these claims when someone wants to post "yes" or "no" whether the story happened or not or was it just a parlor story for entertainment then I might get up out of my rocking chair. It is so relaxing.

It could have very well been a play right by his father Giles Ward. He was over the Thespian Society. I believe we have just about worn out every phase and history happening from 1800 through the Western Days. I am taking a break but should you post any thing of interest with documents to verify I may send you a reply.

 

[Benjamin Gates]

Don't go too far franklin, you post good info too, which I enjoy reading, in between your quick jabs.

 

[bigscoop]

A party of 30 men who were "advised" to form their party into a "military fashion." Who then, would possess this knowledge to have made that recommendation, would have understood the meaning and how the advised chain of military command should be formed? An Indian? A fur trader, perhaps? Or, maybe someone with military experience or a military background? ....you decide.

 

[Benjamin Gates]

A West Point cadet?

 

[bigscoop]

A West Point cadet?

Well, that's the thing. Beale's Rifles, there were two of them at New Orleans, one from Penn and the other, and this is important, "comprised of New Orleans businessmen." When reliable roster is located there are names in there that can be traced to some of what I'll be explaining "when/is it is allowed" by membership. "Businessmen" were not enlisted men.

 

[bigscoop]

A West Point cadet?

Now some of this is based on speculation but not without long research and learned education of the existing circumstances;

You have to understand the political atmosphere during the period, as a measure of political threat/pressure both France and Great Britain had hinted that they might take action against the United States in restoring territories back to Mexico/Spain if the US showed force in Mexico/Texas. Now the US realized that these were only political threats and they took them with a grain of salt, as is detailed in several different resources.


However, if war/conflict did result then there needed to be an established line of supply to the region, this making the St. Louis overland line a foreseeable measure. And it was also because of these threats that the United States couldn't risk using enlisted men in the region.


Aboard one of the ships that transferred the refugees to Galveston Island there was a man named, you guessed it, Thomas Beale. Ironically, during this same period there is a Beale who is also a runner for another influential man involved at Galveston Island and South America, this last Beale even securing the delivery Brazilian hardwood from south America for this man. Now I can't positively identify these two Beale's as being the same man but I can, however, directly connect the influential person as holding investment in both “shipments.” But in getting a better feel for things you have to understand the activities of the Corporation, which was actually a shelled privateering and smuggling operation of grand proportions. You can't just continue to stack looted merchandise up on an island without somebody noticing or without turning that merchandise into vital dollars, just as they did with the slaves they took as prizes, yet another reason the US avoided any direct connections, even though Onis and others knew it.

 

[Benjamin Gates]

Now some of this is based on speculation but not without long research and learned education of the existing circumstances;

You have to understand the political atmosphere during the period, as a measure of political threat/pressure both France and Great Britain had hinted that they might take action against the United States in restoring territories back to Mexico/Spain if the US showed force in Mexico/Texas. Now the US realized that these were only political threats and they took them with a grain of salt, as is detailed in several different resources.


However, if war/conflict did result then there needed to be an established line of supply to the region, this making the St. Louis overland line a foreseeable measure. And it was also because of these threats that the United States couldn't risk using enlisted men in the region.


Aboard one of the ships that transferred the refugees to Galveston Island there was a man named, you guessed it, Thomas Beale. Ironically, during this same period there is a Beale who is also a runner for another influential man involved at Galveston Island and South America, this last Beale even securing the delivery Brazilian hardwood from south America for this man. Now I can't positively identify these two Beale's as being the same man but I can, however, directly connect the influential person as holding investment in both “shipments.” But in getting a better feel for things you have to understand the activities of the Corporation, which was actually a shelled privateering and smuggling operation of grand proportions. You can't just continue to stack looted merchandise up on an island without somebody noticing or without turning that merchandise into vital dollars, just as they did with the slaves they took as prizes, yet another reason the US avoided any direct connections, even though Onis and others knew it.

bigscoop, very interesting reading. I liked it.
I may be jumping to conclusions, at this point, but from what you are describing sounds to me as if you have discovered PRE-KGC operations.
O.A.K. was next generation KGC and KGC was next generation ? ? ?

 

[bigscoop]

bigscoop, very interesting reading. I liked it.
I may be jumping to conclusions, at this point, but from what you are describing sounds to me as if you have discovered PRE-KGC operations.
O.A.K. was next generation KGC and KGC was next generation ? ? ?

No, nothing like that at all. It was simply a means of pressuring Spain, whose power was rapidly declining, to submit to United States demands in the treaty negotiations. It was simply politics and unofficial military strategy to gain critical passage into the Oregon Territory. This thread references the "transporting of goods" so just consider the era and then follow the water and it will become clearer to you. There were no trains or cars or planes yet.

Onis was fully aware of the critical nature of the pass and why the US wanted this passage and near the end of the negotiations he even tried to get Adams to agree to the center of the river as the new boundary. But the US wanted to seal Spain completely out of the territory and thus stood firm in their demands. All of this was the game that was worth the candle.

 

[ECS]

Now some of this is based on speculation but not without long research and learned education of the existing circumstances...

Almost all of this is based on speculation, and fitting information to support this same old "new" theory with events that ARE NOT mentioned in the Beale Papers, which is very easy to accomplish when attempting to prove a work of fiction is true.
Remember Brad Andrews admonition.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

bigscoop, very interesting reading. I liked it.
I may be jumping to conclusions, at this point, but from what you are describing sounds to me as if you have discovered PRE-KGC operations.
O.A.K. was next generation KGC and KGC was next generation ? ? ?

Well, you are sorta CORRECT! Started with the Prez T. Jefferson/Vice-Prez A. Burr "CONFLICT". You see, AFTER Prez T. Jefferson was successful with the Louisiana Purchase (with the FRENCH), Vice-Prez Burr wanted the Spanish SOUTH WEST for himself; Burr wanted to be EMPEROR! The "area" he wanted was roughly the same as the OLD Knights of the Golden Circle EMPIRE... check it out! NOW! VP Burr was unsuccessful, and died VERY poor in NYC (FUTURE 3rd Degree HQ of KGC, that "advanced" to the O.A.K. (Order of AMERICAN Knights... including WEALTHY "Yanks"). Similar to FreeMasonry, you have the Blue Lodge Degrees of the YORK RITE for MASTER MASON; "advancing" to the SCOTTISH RITE for MORE degrees, up to 32nd (which I was)... 33rd Degree is Honorary & "Rare". So from VP A. Burr's empire to KGC's EMPIRE, You are CORRECT; Spanish "control" had to GO!

 

[ECS]

...and the Mexican War and the Confederate Succession were both attempts to create that Golden Circle.

 

[franklin]

...and the Mexican War and the Confederate Succession were both attempts to create that Golden Circle.

The first part of your statement is correct but not the second part. No the "Confederate Succession" was over Abraham Lincoln calling up an army to fight against the South. The KGC was infiltrating Mexico at the time the Civil War broke out. They and their 800,000 members at the time was going to annex Mexico in to the Union as several Southern States to take over the House of Representatives and the Senate with more members from more Southern States. But all KGC agents were called back to infiltrate northern cities such as Chicago, Baltimore and New York City. They had already infiltrated California and took over about all of the city, state and U.S. Governments in California. The KGC was actually the Secret Service of the Confederate Government and about all of their armies in the beginning of the war. So you may be half way right on the Confederate Succession statement because once the war started the KGC threw everything they had at the Union Armies.

 

[bigscoop]

Almost all of this is based on speculation,..........

....This place is all too comical these days. Not too many post ago I was told the long explanation was too much, so this was reduced to just the very minimums and to only one document, enough to get things started but not even scratching the surface. Now, without ever having seen/heard the rest of what was too long to present, "it's all speculation." Well here's another hot tip for you....."no it ain't!"

 

[ECS]

That was the eventual goal of the Confederate States, When Jefferson Davis was an US Senator, he gave a speech on the Senate floor that outlined a plan for annexation of Mexico and Cuba to complete the Golden Circle. It was rejected by his fellow solons.

 

[Benjamin Gates]

By all means continue bigscoop. Bowl of ice cream in hand.

 

[franklin]

That was the eventual goal of the Confederate States, When Jefferson Davis was an US Senator, he gave a speech on the Senate floor that outlined a plan for annexation of Mexico and Cuba to complete the Golden Circle. It was rejected by his fellow solons.

That also was Aaron Burr's goal to set up his Empire on the lands around the golden circle and lands west of the Mississippi River with an ultimate goal of being Emperor of the Western Hemisphere with the eventual take over of the United States. Dr. John Robinson and his twin brother William Robinson sold arms to the Mexican Government to expel the Spanish from the Southwest for ever. He finally succeeded only it did not happen until three years after his death. When West Florida was taken over by General Andrew Jackson was the beginning of the KGC and it's membership and this being in 1810 or 1812 that is when the Bonnie Blue Flag flew for the first time. It is still flying today over two states and maybe more--------one is over Texas and the other is over California. Why do you think California has a single star and a Bear on it's state flag. B-E-A-R was the password of the KGC when they took over California. One day everyone will know that the KGC was the group that made America expansionism work. They made our country what it is today. Add the numerical value of O-W-L and you will see why the United States of America only has fifty states. All of this is in my new book but my partner is lagging behind on publication. I may have to publish it myself.