Thomas Beale + A Trust

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bigscoop

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Look, I'm going to toss this out here for those who desire to entertain it, but basically it relates to all of the ongoing arguments and debates about Thomas Beale, Sr., Jr., etc. So here goes;

If we strip the narration down to the bare bones then the entire narration is basically about one man and his money, this being a Thomas Beale. Now we know that this money was placed in some sort of a trust with a ten-year term, however, we have no idea how this trust was designed, and that's unfortunate. But basically, we do know that Morriss was acting as executor, or perhaps a third independent party representing this trust, if his services were so required. And this is all we know.

As to Beale, it really has no bearing when this man died in regards to the trust as long as there was some beneficiary in place in his stay, so let's assume this was Jr. But here's the thing in all of this, both of these men were clearly dead before the lapse of that ten-year term so how can a trust pay out to benefactors if there are no remaining benefactors, or verified heirs?

So I think the ensuing debates and arguments over who died when really don't matter at all. What I suggest does matter is the following, and that is, who, in 1885, would have felt as though they were deserving?

At no time in the pamphlet does the author ever offer hunt as to the identities of the other men who had allegedly accompanied Beale to the Morriss establishment, even though the author makes perfectly clear that Morriss knew who they were, even knew where they lived. I submit to you now that this failure to identify those men wasn't by error but rather this was with reason, as to not confuse who the story was about, Thomas J. Beale, and also possibly not to incriminate those men and their families, all of this simply included to further induce someone with the correct information being sought to step forward.

So who was the author? Perhaps someone privileged to the secret that had been confined to a small circle of family and one true friend, this friend not being Ward, but rather Morriss. Strange that the author references the details of how Morriss and his wife had allowed a boarder to stay with them for a number of years with no remuneration at all. That folks, is a pretty darn good friend.

The author had important business affairs in Richmond, Thomas J. Beale lived in Richmond, parents unknown. Hard to claim rights to a trust if you can't prove that you're an heir. Now consider the described Thomas J. Beale's complexion, etc. The Thomas J. Beale in Richmond was a free man of color. In 1862 did Morriss finally tell him about his father and the trust? This, given his relationship to Morriss, would also explain Ward as the chosen agent.:thumbsup:
 

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ECS

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So we now return the END GAME "swarthy" definition once again.
Reckon you need that shovel you offered me, but, better still, a ladder.
You do go way out there to deny the obvious Risqué extended family bloodline connection to the Beale Papers.
 

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Rebel - KGC

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Look, I'm going to toss this out here for those who desire to entertain it, but basically it relates to all of the ongoing arguments and debates about Thomas Beale, Sr., Jr., etc. So here goes;

If we strip the narration down to the bare bones then the entire narration is basically about one man and his money, this being a Thomas Beale. Now we know that this money was placed in some sort of a trust with a ten-year term, however, we have no idea how this trust was designed, and that's unfortunate. But basically, we do know that Morriss was acting as executor, or perhaps a third independent party representing this trust, if his services were so required. And this is all we know.

As to Beale, it really has no bearing when this man died in regards to the trust as long as there was some beneficiary in place in his stay, so let's assume this was Jr. But here's the thing in all of this, both of these men were clearly dead before the lapse of that ten-year term so how can a trust pay out to benefactors if there are no remaining benefactors, or verified heirs?

So I think the ensuing debates and arguments over who died when really don't matter at all. What I suggest does matter is the following, and that is, who, in 1885, would have felt as though they were deserving?

At no time in the pamphlet does the author ever offer hunt as to the identities of the other men who had allegedly accompanied Beale to the Morriss establishment, even though the author makes perfectly clear that Morriss knew who they were, even knew where they lived. I submit to you now that this failure to identify those men wasn't by error but rather this was with reason, as to not confuse who the story was about, Thomas J. Beale, and also possibly not to incriminate those men and their families, all of this simply included to further induce someone with the correct information being sought to step forward.

So who was the author? Perhaps someone privileged to the secret that had been confined to a small circle of family and one true friend, this friend not being Ward, but rather Morriss. Strange that the author references the details of how Morriss and his wife had allowed a boarder to stay with them for a number of years with no remuneration at all. That folks, is a pretty darn good friend.

The author had important business affairs in Richmond, Thomas J. Beale lived in Richmond, parents unknown. Hard to claim rights to a trust if you can't prove that you're an heir. Now consider the described Thomas J. Beale's complexion, etc. The Thomas J. Beale in Richmond was a free man of color. In 1862 did Morriss finally tell him about his father and the trust? This, given his relationship to Morriss, would also explain Ward as the chosen agent.:thumbsup:
NOTHING in the Beale PAPERS Pamphlet about a TRUST!
 

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bigscoop

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There is a letter to Mr M from Mr B dated January 4th 1822 first sentence second line (the importance of the Trust confided to you )
Is this what you are saying Mr B ?

Yes, that and the story is all about a trust. Anytime money/wealth is deposited for later distribution it is being held in a trust, it is a type of "trust fund." If I gave ESC $1000 and I asked him to give it to Franklin on Christmas Day, 2016, and he agreed to do that for me then he is holding that money in trust and that money is waiting in trust until it can be distributed. But what if that money can't be returned to me and poor Franklin is departed before ECS can deliver that $100 to Franklin, then what? Did ECS and I also have a plan B in place for this sort of thing?

To go a step further, let's say that in 2076 one of Franklins heirs learns of this $100 and he decides to collect. The first thing he has to do is to prove is that there is the $100 being held in trust, and the second thing he has to prove is that he is a legitimate heir to that money.
 

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Dirt1955

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There is a letter to Mr M from Mr B dated January 4th 1822 first sentence second line (the importance of the Trust confided to you )
Is this what you are saying Mr B ?

More likely one of the following meanings can be derived from the sentence in the letter regarding "trust".

Websters 1828 dictionary defines "Trust" as: NOUN - Confidence; a reliance or resting of the mind on the integrity, veracity, justice, friendship or other sound principle of another person.
VERB - To be confident of something present or future. To place confidence in, to rely on.


Interesting premise...please do continue.
 

ECS

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Yes, that and the story is all about a trust. Anytime money/wealth is deposited for later distribution it is being held in a trust, it is a type of "trust fund." ...
This is a prime example on how Bigscoop can build an entire theory based only on one word, a name, a location, or a date.
 

ECS

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NOTHING in the Beale PAPERS Pamphlet about a TRUST!
"In the importance of the trust confided to you, and the confidence reposed in your honor..." Letter Jan 4, 1822 ,Beale Papers
An example how one can take a word or phrase to create "evidence" to support a pet theory.
 

Rebel - KGC

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"In the importance of the trust confided to you, and the confidence reposed in your honor..." Letter Jan 4, 1822 ,Beale Papers
An example how one can take a word or phrase to create "evidence" to support a pet theory.
LOL! "Trust CONFIDED to you (RM)"... is KEY. :laughing7:
 

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bigscoop

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"In the importance of the trust confided to you, and the confidence reposed in your honor..." Letter Jan 4, 1822 ,Beale Papers
An example how one can take a word or phrase to create "evidence" to support a pet theory.

You're "obviously" trying far too desperately to create an argument from a fact that you can't dispute, so let's try this again, "Once money is placed in hold for the future distribution to others that money, "HAS BEEN PLACED IN A TYPE OF TRUST." PERIOD! :laughing7: The money has been "entrusted to another" for safe keeping and handling, hence the term, "Trust."

I understand what's at stake for you with that whole fiction theory, but even so, to be so desperate to try and create a point of argument from what is common knowledge such as this, it's beyond me. :dontknow: Face it, accept it, the moment Beale allegedly deposited funds and placed it in the care of Morriss that money was in a trust. You don't have to like it, but come on man, to even attempt to argue the notion?
 

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Dirt1955

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You're "obviously" trying far too desperately to create an argument from a fact that you can't dispute, so let's try this again, "Once money is placed in hold for the future distribution to others that money, "HAS BEEN PLACED IN A TYPE OF TRUST." PERIOD! :laughing7: The money has been "entrusted to another" for safe keeping and handling, hence the term, "Trust."

As in any word game, using the english language to postulate a theory, is an interesting exercise...however, I can not find any writings in the 1800's that use the noun "TRUST" to describe the activity of having a monetary trust similar to a modern day "trust fund". Banking records of the period may reveal more information.

I personally am much more interested in the Galveston connection, if one exists.

please do continue...
 

ECS

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You're "obviously" trying far too desperately to create an argument from a fact that you can't dispute, so let's try this again, "Once money is placed in hold for the future distribution to others that money, "HAS BEEN PLACED IN A TYPE OF TRUST." PERIOD! :laughing7: The money has been "entrusted to another" for safe keeping and handling, hence the term, "Trust."

I understand what's at stake for you with that whole fiction theory, but even so, to be so desperate to try and create a point of argument from what is common knowledge such as this, it's beyond me. :dontknow: Face it, accept it, the moment Beale allegedly deposited funds and placed it in the care of Morriss that money was in a trust. You don't have to like it, but come on man, to even attempt to argue the notion?
According to the story, Beale left a locked iron box with Morriss, not funds, or the mention of funds, just the locked iron box, contents unknown.
The treasure story only emerged with the alleged letters sent years later.
Face it, with all your theories, something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue, you have yet to prove the Beale story true, or disprove that it was a work of fiction created to make a profit.
Come on, my friend, it is you that appears desperate to prove your never ending theories, not me.
 

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bigscoop

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You guys are allowing your all too desperate "save Virginia" attitude to cloud even what you already know, and have known for quite some time. The subject of this thread is "Thomas Beale + Trust" and in all effort to defend that Virginia Only, or that, Fiction Only posture you have completely allowed yourself to lose sight of the fact that Thomas Beale had even served as a Register of Wills in New Orleans. Pardon the pun, but Trust me, if was the register of wills then he certainly knew a thing or two about trust and the many different ways they could be applied. Just saying......this constant posting just for spite is becoming all-to obvious. Perhaps you should step back and at least try to evaluate the content of other post before launch your premature attacks.

You know, I've differed on many points and opinions that have been posted by just about everyone actively taking part in these forums, but I can honestly say that in just about all of these legitimate discussions/debates where I have held contrary viewpoint there was almost always something in those discussion worth my attention and evaluating. I don't have to like them, I don't have to agree with them, but I should always evaluate and entertain what they're presenting, one never knows when something curious or of value might come forward. :dontknow:
 

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Rebel - KGC

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You're "obviously" trying far too desperately to create an argument from a fact that you can't dispute, so let's try this again, "Once money is placed in hold for the future distribution to others that money, "HAS BEEN PLACED IN A TYPE OF TRUST." PERIOD! :laughing7: The money has been "entrusted to another" for safe keeping and handling, hence the term, "Trust."

I understand what's at stake for you with that whole fiction theory, but even so, to be so desperate to try and create a point of argument from what is common knowledge such as this, it's beyond me. :dontknow: Face it, accept it, the moment Beale allegedly deposited funds and placed it in the care of Morriss that money was in a trust. You don't have to like it, but come on man, to even attempt to argue the notion?
NOPE! NOTHING about a MONEY TRUST...
 

Rebel - KGC

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You're "obviously" trying far too desperately to create an argument from a fact that you can't dispute, so let's try this again, "Once money is placed in hold for the future distribution to others that money, "HAS BEEN PLACED IN A TYPE OF TRUST." PERIOD! :laughing7: The money has been "entrusted to another" for safe keeping and handling, hence the term, "Trust."

I understand what's at stake for you with that whole fiction theory, but even so, to be so desperate to try and create a point of argument from what is common knowledge such as this, it's beyond me. :dontknow: Face it, accept it, the moment Beale allegedly deposited funds and placed it in the care of Morriss that money was in a trust. You don't have to like it, but come on man, to even attempt to argue the notion?
NOPE! NOT a MONEY TRUST...
 

Rebel - KGC

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Jun 15, 2007
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You guys are allowing your all too desperate "save Virginia" attitude to cloud even what you already know, and have known for quite some time. The subject of this thread is "Thomas Beale + Trust" and in all effort to defend that Virginia Only, or that, Fiction Only posture you have completely allowed yourself to lose sight of the fact that Thomas Beale had even served as a Register of Wills in New Orleans. Pardon the pun, but Trust me, if was the register of wills then he certainly knew a thing or two about trust and the many different ways they could be applied. Just saying......this constant posting just for spite is becoming all-to obvious. Perhaps you should step back and at least try to evaluate the content of other post before launch your premature attacks.

You know, I've differed on many points and opinions that have been posted by just about everyone actively taking part in these forums, but I can honestly say that in just about all of these legitimate discussions/debates where I have held contrary viewpoint there was almost always something in those discussion worth my attention and evaluating. I don't have to like them, I don't have to agree with them, but I should always evaluate and entertain what they're presenting, one never knows when something curious or of value might come forward. :dontknow:
"Save Virginia"... LOL!
 

Rebel - KGC

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Sic Semper Tyrannis!
LOL! "Carry on with the FIGHT, BOYS... SIC 'EM!" VMI Cadets did just THAT, at the Battle of New Market! AKA the Battle of the Field of LOST SHOES (local slang). During the battle, at some point, the field was so muddy, that the mud sucked the shoes off of some of the VMI Cadets... REBELS won ANYWAY! Way to sic 'em BOYS! Hurrah, for the Bonnie Blue Flag!
 

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masterpoe

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Yes, that and the story is all about a trust. Anytime money/wealth is deposited for later distribution it is being held in a trust, it is a type of "trust fund." If I gave ESC $1000 and I asked him to give it to Franklin on Christmas Day, 2016, and he agreed to do that for me then he is holding that money in trust and that money is waiting in trust until it can be distributed. But what if that money can't be returned to me and poor Franklin is departed before ECS can deliver that $100 to Franklin, then what? Did ECS and I also have a plan B in place for this sort of thing?

To go a step further, let's say that in 2076 one of Franklins heirs learns of this $100 and he decides to collect. The first thing he has to do is to prove is that there is the $100 being held in trust, and the second thing he has to prove is that he is a legitimate heir to that money.

So if there was a fight going on for the last 100 years over who gets all the treasure. That possibility could explain why there has been so much problems with finding out who the TJB was.
 

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