Claudine Fulton Ellis

[bigscoop]

Ok, now I feel I am up to speed on this foolishness! So she simply found a letter from Cap Beall? The guy that was in the military? Or perhaps Cap Beale that was in New Orleans the owner of the Planters Hotel?

Will looking into this I came across someone who said the last name of Beale was actually Beal in a deciphered Page they were working on? No Jefferson used at all in his name!

"Jefferson" was never part of the original source material, came after the fact with any provenance for having done so.....means nothing.

 

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[masterpoe]

"Jefferson" was never part of the original source material, came after the fact with any provenance for having done so.....means nothing.

The Jefferson for a middle name would be the true tell of a fake decipherment then?

 

[franklin]

Claudine Fulton Ellis told me on many occasions the envelope had in fancy writing small lettering on the bottom right hand side of the envelope "Thomas Jefferson Beale" Also the body above that said "Not to be opened until, June, 1832.

 

[ECS]

Ok, now I feel I am up to speed on this foolishness! So she simply found a letter from Cap Beall? The guy that was in the military? Or perhaps Cap Beale that was in New Orleans the owner of the Planters Hotel?...

So you really haven't researched Claudine Fulton Ellis's claim?
If she actually found this "alleged" letter, that would blow your lost "key" letter in flood, shall we say, out of the water!

 

[franklin]

I myself believe Claudine was truthful about the letter. But as to whether the story of gold is true or not I can not say. She did find the letter and made a copy of it and her mother made her replace the letter back into the Bible where it was found and had her return it to the dusty attic where it was found.

Claudine also said there was a "MAP" with the letter and she drew so many times on butter paper but the copy kept smearing and she could never make a good copy. I asked her since she had drawn the "MAP" so many times could she remember what was on the "MAP?" She re-drew the "MAP" and sent me a copy. I researched the copy for over a year. Making about forty trips to Bedford Court House to research the lands on the "MAP" The "MAP" proved to be authentic.

Claudine's "MAP" had circles on it about ten of them about the size of a nickel. Each had letters such as
"CO" "BO" "DO" and others. Only one had just a circle with no letters. Since, these circles all had an "O" except one, Claudine believed that they stood for "ORE" or iron "ORE" mines. I looked them over but I believed they were high elevations or knolls or hills and the "O" stood for land "OWNER" instead of iron "ORE" mines.

As I said it took over one year to get all the Deeds I could obtain on these areas. After going back to the late 1780's I was able to find all the landowners that owned land during the time period when the treasure was buried. All ten of the landowners circled letters checked out to be correct with a corresponding landowner. I hand drew all the landowners surveys then I placed all of them on a 24 minute topo-map.

Claudine's "MAP" had three small circles smaller than the other ten circles. Where these three circles were it also said "Oak Tree" with an "X" marking a spot. I found the landowner and talked with them but while I was trying to get permission or a contract both of the brothers----one living on the property but not owning the property and the property owner that did not live on the property, both of them had open heart surgury. The property was up for sale but it was over One Million Dollars. Needless to say I never got to dig on that "X" marks the spot.

But anyway Claudine Fulton Ellis wanted very much for me to recover the Beale Treasure but circumstances has failed me and I have failed her. She is a real knowledgable lady and I can see no deceptive intent in her motives for misguiding or miss-leading anyone. If the treasure of Thomas J. Beale is real this is one of the places I would like to dig for it.

The other place is the land where Clayton I Hart bought the wrong property and has five or six large bent knee trees surrounding a rock pile. And this is another location where I have been unable to dig. This landowner will shoot anyone on his property on site, no questions asked.

 

[ECS]

How did this "alleged" letter get placed into a family Bible, and whose family was it, and where and who owned the home in which it was found?
What year did she find the letter, it is quite possible that it and the map were made by an unknown Beale treasure hunter.
What became of the letter and map, and where is it today?

 

[franklin]

Read her book. I do not have a copy. I sold all my books years ago.

 

[Cryptography]

Read her book. I do not have a copy. I sold all my books years ago.

The spook of Thomas Jefferson Beale told her were to find the Bible with the letter?

 

[franklin]

Makes no difference who told her, she has 16 affidavits to prove what she said was the truth.

 

[ECS]

...but those who signed those affidavits never saw the alleged "letter" only confirming what Ellis had told them about finding the letter.

A SIGN AFFIDAVIT ONLY CONFIRMS THE NAME THAT IS SIGNED-DOES NOT ATTEST TO THE VALIDITY OF THE CONTENT IN THAT STATEMENT.
That does not confirm the existence of the letter at all, or her story, just confirms what she has told others, and what others claimed about her psychic ability.

As with every hard object connected to the Beale story, be it the iron box, letters, and ciphers mention in the Beale Papers, the numbers covered papers Hazelwood had Clayton Hart copy, to this letter of Ellis, after the story is presented to the public, these item just disappear, never to been seen again.

It is highly suspect if these items ever really existed outside of the books in which they were mentioned.
One would think provenance of this caliber would have been preserved if only to support the various writers' claims.

 

[bigscoop]

...but those who signed those affidavits never saw the alleged "letter" only confirming what Ellis had told them about finding the letter.

A SIGN AFFIDAVIT ONLY CONFIRMS THE NAME THAT IS SIGNED-DOES NOT ATTEST TO THE VALIDITY OF THE CONTENT IN THAT STATEMENT.
That does not confirm the existence of the letter at all, or her story, just confirms what she has told others, and what others claimed about her psychic ability.

As with every hard object connected to the Beale story, be it the iron box, letters, and ciphers mention in the Beale Papers, the numbers covered papers Hazelwood had Clayton Hart copy, to this letter of Ellis, after the story is presented to the public, these item just disappear, never to been seen again.

It is highly suspect if these items ever really existed outside of the books in which they were mentioned.
One would think provenance of this caliber would have been preserved if only to support the various writers' claims.

You've nailed it pretty good and accurate. If that true provenance ever existed there would have been a record made of it, especially by those who made claim of such given the importance of those items. Innis is one prime example of this same for profit charade.....

 

[franklin]

...but those who signed those affidavits never saw the alleged "letter" only confirming what Ellis had told them about finding the letter.

A SIGN AFFIDAVIT ONLY CONFIRMS THE NAME THAT IS SIGNED-DOES NOT ATTEST TO THE VALIDITY OF THE CONTENT IN THAT STATEMENT.
That does not confirm the existence of the letter at all, or her story, just confirms what she has told others, and what others claimed about her psychic ability.

As with every hard object connected to the Beale story, be it the iron box, letters, and ciphers mention in the Beale Papers, the numbers covered papers Hazelwood had Clayton Hart copy, to this letter of Ellis, after the story is presented to the public, these item just disappear, never to been seen again.

It is highly suspect if these items ever really existed outside of the books in which they were mentioned.
One would think provenance of this caliber would have been preserved if only to support the various writers' claims.

You need to check with the law books on that one, I do not believe when you sign an affidavit that you only saying the signature is authentic. I believe you are confirming the contents of the document is true according to your knowledge. If that was the case as you state it why sign anything.

 

[masterpoe]

...but those who signed those affidavits never saw the alleged "letter" only confirming what Ellis had told them about finding the letter.

A SIGN AFFIDAVIT ONLY CONFIRMS THE NAME THAT IS SIGNED-DOES NOT ATTEST TO THE VALIDITY OF THE CONTENT IN THAT STATEMENT.
That does not confirm the existence of the letter at all, or her story, just confirms what she has told others, and what others claimed about her psychic ability.

As with every hard object connected to the Beale story, be it the iron box, letters, and ciphers mention in the Beale Papers, the numbers covered papers Hazelwood had Clayton Hart copy, to this letter of Ellis, after the story is presented to the public, these item just disappear, never to been seen again.

It is highly suspect if these items ever really existed outside of the books in which they were mentioned.
One would think provenance of this caliber would have been preserved if only to support the various writers' claims.

af·fi·da·vit
ˌafəˈdāvit/Submit
nounLAW
a written statement confirmed by oath or affirmation, for use as evidence in court.

 

[ECS]

... Ellis's book has notarized affidavits which are official statements that the events experienced with her are TRUE! ...

Are they actual "notarized affidavits" or notarized declarations or witness statements ? There is an important difference that involves the validity of the given statement'
A declaration is merely a written statement document in which the person making the statement "believes to be true".

A witness statement contains information based on the persons BELIEF of what they can state as true, although NOT BASED ON FIRSTHAND INFORMATION.

For a signed statement or a witness statement to become a legal affidavit, it must contain the name and address of the affiant, the date and location when and where the statement was given, the source of the information, and MOST IMPORTANT, the grounds for the affiant's belief in the accuracy and validity of the given statement, and of course, the affiant's signature.
Then to become a legal affidavit to be considered as True and Valid evidence, it must contain an "endorsement paragraph" and a proper official must administer THE OATH OF AFFIRMATION.
If a statement presented as an affidavit does not meet all these requirements, it is considered a STATEMENT, and is considered as less reliable as evidence.

A declaration and statement can be notarized, but that does not affirm the validity of the given statement, just the person and the date the statement was made.
So are the "affidavits" in Claudine Fulton Ellis's book actually legal affidavits, or just notarized declarations and statements?

 

[franklin]

They are affidavits and they are legally signed by notary publics along with the address and contact of the signers.

 

[ECS]

Claudine Fulton Ellis claims to have found in an attic in 1944, an old Bible. In this Bible was a map, a letter signed by Thomas Jefferson Beall, and an envelope marked, "Not to be delivered until June, 1832" Claudine's sister witnessed seeing these things. The sister signed an affidavit, stating that she saw them...

Claudine said she made a copy of the letter that was in the Bible. She said she hid this copy behind a fireplace mantle, and when the family moved to another house, the copy was left behind, where she had hidden it. In 1993, a man signed an affidavit that in the 1960s, he and his mother found the copy behind a fireplace mantle. The man stated that he, his mother, and his brother all saw the copy of the letter. They had moved into the house where Claudine had lived...

Years later, Claudine went looking for the copy she had made. She found this family, and they told her about finding the letter behind the mantle, but had taken it to a college to see if someone there could make something of it. They were told the letter would be sent to a computer expert, but nothing else was heard of it, and the letter was never returned to them. This was all stated and signed in the affidavit...

Also signing affidavits were a Roanoke man and his wife, who stated that the mother and the two sons (above) had discussed with them about finding the letter.[/SIZE]
Many signed affidavits about Claudine's activities concerning her Beale (Beall) adventures are recorded in her book, "The Beale Treasure-The Key." ...

Are the above listed "affidavits" actual proper endorsement paragraphed and sworn Oath of Affirmation affidavits or are they merely statements that been notarized that are not considered as reliable evidence?

 

[franklin]

Yes they are photocopies of the originals.

 

[ECS]

They are affidavits and they are legally signed by notary publics along with the address and contact of the signers.

Without the "endorsement paragraph" and the court official Oath of Affirmation, they are not considered legal affidavits, but notarized declarations,or statements at best, that contain information that the signer believes to be true, but is not considered as a source of accuracy and reliable information'

 

[ECS]

Yes they are photocopies of the originals.

...and entered in a county court record with official seals verifying the Oath of Affirmation was given and signed in the presence of a court official?

 

[franklin]

ECS, It is like when a man dies and goes to heaven, he can not come back and prove to you there is a heaven. Why do you have to have so much confirmation?