The Romancing Of The Beale Papers

bigscoop

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Over the years endless local myths and legends have found their way into the Beale pamphlet tale, colorful names and events with exaggerated nuances often blended into to the tale to fill the numerous lack for facts in all of the tale's otherwise inspiring details, hardly a single family or individual living during the period escaping these false claims of connection and suspicion. From this one tale entire mountains have been turned into secret government depositories, these conspiracies involving a wide range of guilty parties including the Freemasons, KGC, Templers, Illuminati, CSA, you name it, these alleged and ridiculous connections and claims even bigger then the mountains themselves. Yep, folks in this region sure know how to spin a yarn for all that it's worth, a single yarn giving birth to countless others.

"In person, he was about six feet in height, with jet black eyes and hair of the same color, worn longer than was the style at that time. His form was symmetrical, and gave evidence of unusual strength and activity; but his distinguishing feature was a dark and swarthy complexion, as if much exposure to the sun and weather had thoroughly tanned and discolored him; this, however, did not detract from his appearance, and I thought him the handsomest man I had ever seen. Altogether, he was a model of manly beauty, favored by the ladies and envied by men. To the first he was reverentially tender and polite; to the latter, affable and courteous, when they kept within bounds, but, if they were supercilious or presuming, the lion was aroused, and woe to the man who offended him. Instances of this character occurred more than once while he was my guest, and always resulted in his demanding and receiving an apology. His character soon became universally known, and he was no longer troubled by impertinence.
"Such a man was Thomas J. Beale, as he appeared in 1820, and in his subsequent visit to my house.”
And yet nobody apparently knew him?

Yep, that's right, the man was favored by the ladies and envied by men, he had frequent social engagements involving conflict and manly stature, and he was soon universally known, and yet, apparently nobody knew him. Reminds me of one of those fairy-tales where we're told we'll turn to stone if we even utter the name. No doubt, the Beale papers represent southern yarn spinning at its finest.

And what about those thirty adventurers who apparently existed in thin air and vanished the same way? Perhaps they were spirits of the mountains with no connection to families, friends, business, or any other form of mortal concern? And of course, to hear the locals tell it, these were all local men, that once again, apparently nobody knew or missed? Yep, no doubt about it, just more southern yarn spinning at its finest. :laughing7:
 

franklin

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Nobody knew of the men or Thomas J. Beale because the story came out 63 years after they were there. No one living to even ask whether they knew them or not. So what is your point?
 

Rebel - KGC

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Don't worry about HIM; just an ARMCHAIR RESEARCHER, who has NO PROVENANCE of what HE posts. The seat is PROBABLY well-worn...
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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Nobody knew of the men or Thomas J. Beale because the story came out 63 years after they were there. No one living to even ask whether they knew them or not. So what is your point?

:laughing7:....really, that's your reasoning? Ever ask yourself how it's possible that you can dig up so much information on just about any local you want during that period and yet none of these guys? "Universally known", etc., etc.,.......and not so much of a hint of the man, anywhere, other then in the tale? Truth is there exist absolutely nothing, zero, to support this tale other then a bunch of romanticizing for complete lack of anything else. The real armchair researchers are the ones who keep spinning all of these continued yarns in attempt to connect something, anything, to the Beale tale, this again for complete lack of anything else. These guys are the fakers, the guys who grasp at straws and manufacture complete fantasy in face of all the real facts. 132 years has passed, you've spent half you life looking, now show me just one confirmed directly connecting individual other then the author. That's right, you still can't do it. Clearly you're missing the factual real world in favor of the romance.

The problem you're facing in recent weeks is that all of the long-standing BS surrounding this tale is being challenged and exposed for exactly what it is. "BS"...."Romantic BS"
 

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franklin

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:laughing7:....really, that's your reasoning? Ever ask yourself how it's possible that you can dig up so much information on just about any local you want during that period and yet none of these guys? "Universally known", etc., etc.,.......and not so much of a hint of the man, anywhere, other then in the tale? Truth is there exist absolutely nothing, zero, to support this tale other then a bunch of romanticizing for complete lack of anything else. The real armchair researchers are the ones who keep spinning all of these continued yarns in attempt to connect something, anything, to the Beale tale, this again for complete lack of anything else. These guys are the fakers, the guys who grasp at straws and manufacture complete fantasy in face of all the real facts. 132 years has passed, you've spent half you life looking, now show me just one confirmed directly connecting individual other then the author. That's right, you still can't do it. Clearly you're missing the factual real world in favor of the romance.

The problem you're facing in recent weeks is that all of the long-standing BS surrounding this tale is being challenged and exposed for exactly what it is. "BS"...."Romantic BS"

If you think everything about the Beale Story is BS then why are you here. Go back and look for Forest Fenn. Can't find it either.
 

Rebel - KGC

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If you think everything about the Beale Story is BS then why are you here. Go back and look for Forest Fenn. Can't find it either.
LOL! "Scoop" called us "FAKERS"! HE is "TRASH-TALKING", now. "Romantic BS"... BA HA HA HA! HE much be LONELY... VERY lonely.
 

franklin

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I have placed ECS on the ignore list. It is time to place bigscoop on the ignore list then we can talk to each other.
 

ECS

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What did Harry Truman say about the heat in a kitchen about not standing the heat?
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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Interesting that I made a reasonable post exposing all of the ridiculous unsupported local romancing of the Beale papers, including evidences of, and look who immediately comes up for air.....:laughing7: Enough said. :thumbsup:
And still no factual defense in support of all their fantastical solutions. Wonder why?...Thanks for showing your "continued and never ending" support of the exact points presented in this thread.:occasion14:
 

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franklin

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What did Harry Truman say about the heat in a kitchen about not standing the heat?

ECS I can stand the heat in the kitchen and the heat under fire. When you can come up to the level of treasure hunting I have done for the past 58 years then you can get a spark under your rear.

As for you bigscoop did not you say BS BS BS
 

ECS

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ECS I can stand the heat in the kitchen and the heat under fire. When you can come up to the level of treasure hunting I have done for the past 58 years then you can get a spark under your rear.

As for you bigscoop did not you say BS BS BS
...and this is how you discuss the Beale story?
By insulting others for posting a different opinion from yours?
"20 years of schooling and they put you on the day shift"- Bob Dylan
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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LOL! "Scoop" called us "FAKERS"! HE is "TRASH-TALKING", now. "Romantic BS"... BA HA HA HA! HE much be LONELY... VERY lonely.

No trash talking at all. It's actually pretty straight forward. Whenever someone continues to post "new & certain solves" knowing full well that they don't have the documentation and actual evidence to support those numerous solves..."that's faking it." And it doesn't take to many of these routine and recurring occasions before it starts to become obvious. :icon_thumleft: Some here have run the entire gambit, the years of posting these vastly different "certain and documented solves" still all here for the free and open viewing. And then, at times, the sudden change of course in posting that the entire story is made up, again by his own research and conslusions, and now back to yet another certain solve without anything to support the claim. "Faker!" Pure and simple. :laughing7:
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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Incidentally, "universally known" means the same thing as "common knowledge on a grand scale." And yet nobody apparently knew of him? :laughing7:
This is probably why he still hasn't been identified yet today, "because nobody knew of him".....and with good reason. :laughing7:
 

ECS

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Which is one of the prime examples in the BEALE PAPERS of "plausible information presented with purposeful discrepancies" informing the wary reader that this is a adventure/treasure story work of fiction.
This work would not have warranted a minor footnote in any book, but for the involvement of George Hart with Pauline Innis who brought this "treasure story" to the public with her book and articles in magazines in the 1960's.
 

franklin

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No trash talking at all. It's actually pretty straight forward. Whenever someone continues to post "new & certain solves" knowing full well that they don't have the documentation and actual evidence to support those numerous solves..."that's faking it." And it doesn't take to many of these routine and recurring occasions before it starts to become obvious. :icon_thumleft: Some here have run the entire gambit, the years of posting these vastly different "certain and documented solves" still all here for the free and open viewing. And then, at times, the sudden change of course in posting that the entire story is made up, again by his own research and conslusions, and now back to yet another certain solve without anything to support the claim. "Faker!" Pure and simple. :laughing7:

The only solve I have posted is that I found where Robert Morriss died and who the author of Job Print Pamphlet was and his brother. I did not say I solved the whole mystery. And yes I do have documents to verify. I have two letters of Anzoletta Saunders, the niece of Robert Morriss and at whose home he died. The letters one is letter headed Roslin, and the date which I do not recall except 1859. The other letter has Roslin down in the far left hand corner and the date 1856. If I posted the proof you and ECS would claim that this does not prove anything.

Also ECS said that Clarence C. Saunders the founder of Piggly Wiggly was not the gg nephew of Robert Morriss. There is documented proof of this out there. His father was married three times and he was born of the second wife. And his father was the son of Anzoletta Saunders' second son, Abram or Abraham.

I can verify everything I have posted. I have the research and I have the documents. I know this does not make any difference to you. Well that is why I do not post it for skeptics like you and ECS.
 

ECS

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Letters dated 1856 and 1859...Robert Morris died at Anzoletta Saunders house in 1863...how do these letters prove the Beale story?
...and what does Clarence C Saunders and Piggly Wiggly have to do with Ward's 1885 copyrighted Beale Papers?
Nothing at all. Just fluff. Always wondered why you brought him into the discussion.
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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The only solve I have posted is that I found where Robert Morriss died and who the author of Job Print Pamphlet was and his brother. I did not say I solved the whole mystery. And yes I do have documents to verify. I have two letters of Anzoletta Saunders, the niece of Robert Morriss and at whose home he died. The letters one is letter headed Roslin, and the date which I do not recall except 1859. The other letter has Roslin down in the far left hand corner and the date 1856. If I posted the proof you and ECS would claim that this does not prove anything.

Also ECS said that Clarence C. Saunders the founder of Piggly Wiggly was not the gg nephew of Robert Morriss. There is documented proof of this out there. His father was married three times and he was born of the second wife. And his father was the son of Anzoletta Saunders' second son, Abram or Abraham.

I can verify everything I have posted. I have the research and I have the documents. I know this does not make any difference to you. Well that is why I do not post it for skeptics like you and ECS.

Skeptics, or simply those who require directly connecting evidence. "Letters" are a dime a dozen, however, letters that make those absolute and undeniable connections, while often spoken of, just never seem to materialize in the end. As I have stated many-many times before, I wish someone would actually find something, anything, that can verify the tale. Having said this, it doesn't mean that just "anything one suspects" can actually do this. Roslin? So what? How does this do anything to confirm the tale?
 

franklin

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That is why I am not going to post anything until I find that undeniable proof. This paper trails and finds of my research will lead me to the answers while these discussions will lead us no where. But at least maybe we can get a hint of a lead that will take us to the answers and that is what I seek.
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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That is why I am not going to post anything until I find that undeniable proof. This paper trails and finds of my research will lead me to the answers while these discussions will lead us no where. But at least maybe we can get a hint of a lead that will take us to the answers and that is what I seek.

But Franklin, you've already stated "not this time" when questioned was raised prior to your suspected false claim that you had once again already found said directly connecting evidence, in yet another new location. Now you're stating, "That is why I am not going to post anything until I find that undeniable proof." So in essence you just admitted that you don't have anything that can be directly connected to the tale. Don't you see what you're doing? You're just making false claims and then changing directions once those false claims get exposed in search of new places to seed those certain claims all over again. You're completely lost in the romance of it all, 100% certain at times that the tale is factual when no such factual evidence is in hand.
 

franklin

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There is no false claim. I told you as plain as I could that this does not disapprove or prove the Beale Papers. All I said was I had found a paper trail to where Robert Morriss died and to the author's identity. This does not prove that TJB went West seeking wild buffalo and finding a treasure in the cleft of the rocks. No sir. You and ECS are looking to bite down the whole cake at once, you have to take it one bite at a time or choke. And brother you two are choking.

As for the letters signed by Anzoletta M. Saunders, you claim they have nothing to do with the Beale Papers. Well it was at her home where Robert Morriss passed the ironbox unto the author of the Beale Papers. Where better to look for information to confirm or deny the Beale Papers.

It is the back door. The front door in 1818 of finding records of a buffalo hunt by TJB from 1817 to 1822 has been worn out and no information has been found to confirm or deny the story. So I have gone to the back door from March 5, 1856 when Robert Morriss gave his household furniture to his niece Maria M. Leftwich and giving up on house keeping. And then the date of January 3, 1863 when Robert Morriss died at the home of his niece Anzoletta M. Saunders.

If you can not see how this information can confirm the Beale Treasure as a verifiable story or a dime novel then you surely need help.

You take the 1856 letter with Roslin on the top with the date and the signature of Anzoletta Saunders. That could be a letter to Robert Morriss and I am not going to say that it is. But anyway. The letter could say:

My Dear Uncle Rob,

You will be very much welcome in my home. You raised my sister and I when we were little girls. I would like to very much return the favor. I have four young sons that can attend to your every need. Let us know when we can expect you. Affectionately, Ann Zoletta your loving niece.

Then there is the 1859 letter signed by Anzoletta M. Saunders. It could have a body inviting the author over to see Robert Morriss at her home and I am not saying that it does.

Dear Obedient Sir:

Uncle Rob Morriss has a matter he wishes to talk to you about. Anytime at your convenience would be fine. Uncle Rob is now 81 years old and he has something of great importance he wishes to unburden himself of before he passes on. Please come at your convenience my home is always open. Thank you. Anzoletta M. Saunders

Or the letter could state:

My Dear Sir:

As you are a writer my Uncle Robert Morriss who is domicile at my home wishes to relate a story. This story he has been working on for years and believes that it could be a best seller like Edgar Allan Poes writing of the "Gold Bug" a few years ago. Uncle Rob would like to discuss this with you. Please come at your convenience. My home is always open. Thank you. Anzoletta M. Saunders

As you can see a letter can confirm or deny the Beale Papers as an authentic treasure to be found or not.

Now I have a meeting at the home still standing where the "author" lived. I do not know if he left anything behind as a clue but it is sure exciting to get to look over this home. I will check out it's cemetery. The kitchen and slave quarters out back, all the grounds and the house itself. I am going to chat with the owners to see if they have any letters or papers of the once owner which was the "author" of the Beale Papers. I will also ask them of any old times still living or anyone else that may have any information. This is what I do. This is what I have done all my life and I enjoy the h--- out of researching and getting out in the field and talking to the people. If you can not feel the excitement then you are not truly trying to find a solution to the Beale Treasure Mystery.
 

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