HUCKLEBERRY

[Rebel - KGC]

ANYWAY, "Tad", continue on...

 

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[bigscoop]

MORE "Smack-Downs" from the "TAG-TEAM" of the Dangling Duo... (aka "DD"); BOTH from Florida; hmmm...

...."DD"..Dangling Duo" ...I like it! I may have to use that one of these days.
But sadly, if folks are going to look for a true remedy then they need to deal in facts, it's the only way you can arrive at a fact.

 

[ECS]

MORE "Smack-Downs" from the "TAG-TEAM" of the Dangling Duo... (aka "DD"); BOTH from Florida; hmmm...

When did it become a "smack down" to correct misinformation presented as fact?

 

[tad10]

Samuel L Clemmons (Mark Twain) did not serve in the Confederacy nor the Union, but was a Union loyalist.

Wow, this is super duper wrong - any decent biography of Twain states he served as an irregular for two weeks in 1861, and Paine, his official biography mentions the Nevada incident in 1862 where Twain claimed to be a regular CSA. Twain's brother Orion Clemens was a Union Loyalist and supported Lincoln in the election of 1860. Twain kept regular journals for all his adult life - some (IIRC - it's thought to be between 14 and 40) number of his journals are missing, and almost all the missing journals are from the War period.


The reason why Twain only ever publically (except for that one time in Nevada) claimed to have 'just been' in an irregular Confederate militia was that spies were not covered by the general clemency - so if Twain had admitted he was a Confederate spy in Nevada he could have been arrested and shot. Now certainly, after he became famous in the mid 1870s for Innocents Abroad and Tom Sawyer its unlikely he would have been shot if he told the world he had actually been a CSA Spy during the War. However, it would have done him and his family no good - and could have dramatically affected the sales of his books.


Please don't try and dispute me by making up your own facts.

 

[tad10]

When did it become a "smack down" to correct misinformation presented as fact?

Next time try you try to 'correct' me - do some research. You were better off just stating something to the effect that 'Twain and all of Twain's Civil War buddies all claim that Twain was just in an irregular CSA militia for two weeks - in fact Twain wrote a short story about his two week stint in a confederate militia' yada, yada, yada.

As it is, thanks to you're attempt to correct actual fact with misinformation it's clear to anyone reading this that I know a frick of a lot more about Twain, the CSA and the Beale than you or Scoop.

 

[tad10]

ANYWAY, "Tad", continue on...

Another interesting CSA aspect to the Beale/Twain - is one of the great mysteries of the Confederacy is explained: to whit - why did the CSS Alabama (built for the CSA by the British near Liverpool) stop at Cherbourg for repairs instead of across the Channel at a (very friendly, and much, much, much, much better protected British Port). ( Hint: CSS Alabama was in Cherbourg to pick up something special).

As noted more than the treasure at Locust Level or the CSA treasure outside of Wytheville or the Champ Ferguson TN grave treasure is hidden in the Beale and by Twain. There was quite a lot going on in during the Civil War that nobody remembers anymore - not the least of which is that Rothschild's, France and England were all doing their best to support the CSA over the Union but couldn't get through the Union blockade. Twain knew much of what was going on during the war, and kept in touch with major figures after the war, and perhaps he wanted to write it all down somewhere so it wouldn't be forgotten and could be re-discovered at some later date long after all the principals (including himself) were dead. That's the really fascinating part of the Beale and Twain's subsequent writing.

 

[ECS]

Next time try you try to 'correct' me - do some research. You were better off just stating something to the effect that 'Twain and all of Twain's Civil War buddies all claim that Twain was just in an irregular CSA militia for two weeks - in fact Twain wrote a short story about his two week stint in a confederate militia' yada, yada, yada.

As it is, thanks to you're attempt to correct actual fact with misinformation it's clear to anyone reading this that I know a frick of a lot more about Twain, the CSA and the Beale than you or Scoop.

Two weeks in the CSA Marion Rangers militia in the early days of the War which Clemens deserted hardly qualifies as Confederate service or support of the CAUSE, especially when he was considered a deserter.

Why Sam Clemens was never a Confederate?
Project MUSE - Mark Twain's Civil War

"Do have a friendly debate without disrespecting someone's work and disregarding what they say as foolish".
"Don't disrespect someone's work by making claims that you yourself cannot accurately back up".
FROM: THE DO'S AND DON'T OF POSTING by CrypticLibrarian

 

[ECS]

... I know a frick of a lot more about Twain, the CSA and the Beale than you or Scoop.

Of course you do.
ANYWAY, "Tad", continue on...

 

[tad10]

Of course you do.
..

When I have to tell you how to respond to me if you want to make any sort of point, and then you do exactly what I just told you to do; then yes, everyone, and I mean everyone, including yourself, who reads this thread knows that I know a ton more about what we're discussing then you do.

This should make "perfectly clear" to everyone that the Beale papers can be anything anyone desires them to be, all of these various "certain claims" providing said provenance to this cold hard fact.

ECS and Scoop just get high on denial - but for others reading this thread:

If you do a Dee 37-1 Cipher on the first edition of Mark Twain's Adventures of Tom Sawyer Preface, Conclusion and opening of Chapter 25 (IIRC - the one where Twain talks about actually hunting for treasure) (available on Archive dot org). You can come up with the same Latitude and Longitudes that are in the Beale Cipher for the main CSA treasure (37, 81). If you do the full decipher it's actually one mile east of that.

Here's the actual well that's marks the location of the entrance tunnel below:



Go to Town.

Exercise for the Reader: Examining the Third Cipher - see how many ways and times 37 and 81 are referenced together. And how many times 81 was is clearly referenced as a Longitude (that is vertically).

 

[bigscoop]

When I have to tell you how to respond to me if you want to make any sort of point, and then you do exactly what I just told you to do; then yes, everyone, and I mean everyone, including yourself, who reads this thread knows that I know a ton more about what we're discussing then you do.



ECS and Scoop just get high on denial - but for others reading this thread:

If you do a Dee 37-1 Cipher on the first edition of Mark Twain's Adventures of Tom Sawyer Preface, Conclusion and opening of Chapter 25 (IIRC - the one where Twain talks about actually hunting for treasure) (available on Archive dot org). You can come up with the same Latitude and Longitudes that are in the Beale Cipher for the main CSA treasure (37, 81). If you do the full decipher it's actually one mile east of that.

Here's the actual well that's marks the location of the entrance tunnel below:

View attachment 1478158

Go to Town.

Exercise for the Reader: Examining the Third Cipher - see how many ways and times 37 and 81 are referenced together. And how many times 81 was is clearly referenced as a Longitude (that is vertically).

There is no denial here Tad, if FACT you still have zero provenance that any portion of the narration is true, or the TJB was even a real character of the times. These are all FACT's that you seem to want to deny in favor of things that you have no provenance for. At best you just have another theory to be added to the long list of endless theories, which is all well and fine until you continue to try to sell it as a condition of factual certain solution, this is the difference between you and me, I'm not going to try to sell folks that I have that certain solve when time and time again educated and knowledgeable folks provided that contrary detail and fact to support that I don't.

 

[tad10]

There is no denial here Tad,

That's a denial right there.

I will note again to the other readers out there that all of bigscoop's denials are usually couched in as general terms as possible. Examined they are all semantically null: the phrase 'zero provenance' has no meaning in the context of this discussion. You'll also note he disputes claims I've never made or are directly contrary to what I've already stated: example he disputes that 'TJB was even a real character' - at no point in this thread do I assert that Beale was a real character, and indeed the fact that I state Mark Twain wrote the work to hide CSA treasure should have made it clear to any reader that TJB is obviously not a real character. Thomas Jefferson is simply a reference to the French Revolution (TJ was Ambassador prior to the Revolution which is a key time frame for the Beale for reasons that go beyond this post) Beale means 'Son of Bel' and is a reference to the story 'Bel and the Dragon' Catholic Apocrypha and specifically to the 1609-10 Douay Bible used by Twain as part of the decoding.

But enough about what I know and scoop doesn't.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, I DO have the Catholic Bible & WILL look into it, even the CA; if good enough for MT, good enough for ME! Bel (Beale) & the Dragon, eh...?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Was Lincoln the Dragon...? Hmmm... (reviewing my NEW OXFORD ANNOTATED BIBLE with APOCRYPHA & JERUSALEM BIBLE (Catholic)...

 

[bigscoop]

That's a denial right there.

I will note again to the other readers out there that all of bigscoop's denials are usually couched in as general terms as possible. Examined they are all semantically null: the phrase 'zero provenance' has no meaning in the context of this discussion. You'll also note he disputes claims I've never made or are directly contrary to what I've already stated: example he disputes that 'TJB was even a real character' - at no point in this thread do I assert that Beale was a real character, and indeed the fact that I state Mark Twain wrote the work to hide CSA treasure should have made it clear to any reader that TJB is obviously not a real character. Thomas Jefferson is simply a reference to the French Revolution (TJ was Ambassador prior to the Revolution which is a key time frame for the Beale for reasons that go beyond this post) Beale means 'Son of Bel' and is a reference to the story 'Bel and the Dragon' Catholic Apocrypha and specifically to the 1609-10 Douay Bible used by Twain as part of the decoding.

But enough about what I know and scoop doesn't.

Good lord, man, you just keep telling on yourself. ......"zero provenance" to support any of your certain claims, "or that the story is anything other then a simple work of fiction." Again and again you fellas just keep pointing out that you have manufactured your solutions from complete unknowns and you remain oblivous to that cold hard fact. "The Beale Papers" provide the only provenance as it is the original source material and you guys just keep producing creative ways to continue pointing out that it isn't true, well, except for the treasure part, now that just has to be true because you have simply chosen to believe in such without any provenance for doing so.

And as far as Twain, if you had any real knowledge about him, he was a stickler for details, which very clearly our Beale author wasn't. It's absolutely amazing how many different places all of those completely random leaders have lead folks....just pick a suspect and you can certainly build "a seemingly true case against them." Mark Twain wouldn't have been nearly so sloppy or careless......

 

[tad10]

Well, I DO have the Catholic Bible & WILL look into it, even the CA; if good enough for MT, good enough for ME! Bel (Beale) & the Dragon, eh...?

You need the first edition - available from Archive.org - and you also need the 1582 Rheims New Testament. Yes, Lincoln may have been the Dragon - the story is about a hidden portal beneath a statute, if you're unfamiliar with it. This is some of the stuff Paul Stewart (Enigmatist) lached onto in his book - he just screwed up some of his interpretations - still worth buying.

For example the "Oct" on page 103 of Paul's book "Solving the Beale Papers: is actually a reference to the Psalms, in particularly the 118th Psalme (119th for KJV) which is in Octaves of 8. Which brings up his 'Daleth' which is similarly a reference to the 118th - whose Octaves are divided into the 22 Hebrew Letters. As you can surmise the 118th is an important Psalme for the Full Decipher if you're so inclined.

Stewart's Phoenix is actually there because of Twain's discourse on the Phoenix (Innocents Abroad or Tramp Abroad) and Twain's discourse on the Phoenix is a just a lengthy reference to the entire project 'South will be Reborn' which was why not only Gold and Jewels but also Guns and Cannon are hidden in the Wytheville Cave.

Paul's Tarot reference is both to the 118th Psalme and to the 37-1 Dee Cipher that Twain uses (but that's a long story). I'd have to just do the decipher to show you - and I might if I get bored enough. It's not super hard.

 

[bigscoop]

Tad, I was just thinking about your certain theory, what you're really suggesting as fact. What you're really suggesting as fact is that never before in the history of literature has anyone ever written a story involving a completely fictional treasure, and so therefore, a Beale related treasure must have really existed, and that since it is arguably similar literature, Mark Twain must have been involved. "Ridiculous!"

 

[ECS]

Another interesting CSA aspect to the Beale/Twain - is one of the great mysteries of the Confederacy is explained: to whit - why did the CSS Alabama (built for the CSA by the British near Liverpool) stop at Cherbourg for repairs instead of across the Channel at a (very friendly, and much, much, much, much better protected British Port). ( Hint: CSS Alabama was in Cherbourg to pick up something special)...

After being at sea raiding and attacking Union vessels for 537 days without returning to a Confederate port, CSA Captain Raphael Semmes of the CSS ALABAMA needed to drydock his vessel for much needed repairs.
Hint: Cherbourg was also a very friendly and protected port. No big mystery there.

 

[ECS]

When I have to tell you how to respond to me if you want to make any sort of point, and then you do exactly what I just told you to do; then yes, everyone, and I mean everyone, including yourself, who reads this thread knows that I know a ton more about what we're discussing then you do...

Then why don't you tell us all why and how if Samuel L Clemens aka Mark Twain was the author of the Beale Papers presented a "finished manuscript" as told in the job pamphlet, to James Beverly Ward to copyright as agent?

 

[tad10]

.....

To the reader - this is semantic content of the words excised above. Two emoticons.

And as far as Twain, if you had any real knowledge about him, he was a stickler for details, which very clearly our Beale author wasn't.

To the reader - bigscoop now suddenly asserts a deep knowledge of Twain while at the same time asserting that I do not. This, of course, is classic paid shill technique. You and I both know bigscoop (or rather the person writing on the bigscoop account) has, at most, read Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn while in grade school whereas I've read pretty much every novel by Twain and a number of his other writings.

So again, bigscoop posts a general denial, with no specifics, and with nothing to back up his puffed up claims about himself.

So let us again give bigscoop an opportunity to prove he isn't a paid shill and watch his response. Let's examine bigscoop's 'sloppy or careless' comment - again no specifics as to what is 'sloppy or careless' about Beale. Since the Beale Papers are a work of fiction used to disguise a treasure bigscoop should be able to tell us precisely where Twain is sloppy or careless in his construction. Paul Stewart has already noted that the Ciphers themselves are designed along a typographic grid. I've already noted one supposedly careless example (the fact 480 is in there twice) actual relates to Sparta - as that was the 2nd Invasion by Persia (thus 480 twice). I can show that everything bigscoop specifies as sloppy has a purpose and meaning.

But I doubt bigscoop will be up to a challenge when it comes to specifics.

 

[tad10]

Then why don't you tell us all why and how if Samuel L Clemmons aka Mark Twain was the author of the Beale Papers presented a "finished manuscript" as told in the job pamphlet, to James Beverly Ward to copyright as agent?

1. It's Clemens. You've made the same mistake about five times. Even after posting a link with his correct name in it.

2. Twain took the typographical set manuscript to Ward to print in limited quantity and had him copyrighted by him so it couldn't be traced back to Twain. Otherwise it becomes much easier to decode.

Now why don't you go to Locust Level with a metal detector and get the small treasure chest there - or does being a paid shill pay that well?