A couple of more "OH NO!" details for true believers....

[bigscoop]

......yes, I have more, but saving them for when the time comes. But here's a couple of more real daggers for true believers to start working around.

Alleged contents of the iron box according to Beale in his May 9[SUP]th[/SUP] letter to Morriss; “You will find, in addition to the papers addressed to you, other papers which will be unintelligible without the aid of a key to assist you.”

Alleged quote from Morriss in regards to the contents of the iron box; “During that year I had the lock broken, and with the exception of the two letters addressed to myself, and some old receipts, found only some unintelligible papers, covered with figures, and totally incomprehensible to me.”

Alleged contents of the iron box according to the author after gaining possession; “The two letters given above were all the box contained that were intelligible; the others, consisted of papers closely covered with figures, which were, of course, unmeaning until they could be deciphered.”

What's missing? And why is there no consistency in these three alleged statements? Beale's alleged statement is vague. The alleged Morriss statement includes old receipts. And the alleged author statement includes no such “old receipts.”

And if you really want a HUGE tell-tell, just read the following alleged letter to Morriss, a letter that by its contents directly contradicts the entire narration. Who can spot it?

St. Louis, Mo., May 9th, 1822.
Robt. Morris, Esq.:

My Esteemed Friend: - Ever since leaving my comfortable quarters at your house I have been journeying to this place, and only succeeded in reaching it yesterday. I have had altogether a pleasant time, the weather being fine and the atmosphere bracing. I shall remain here a week or ten days longer, then "ho" for the plains, to hunt the buffalo and encounter the savage grizzlies. How long I may be absent I cannot now determine, certainly no less than two years, perhaps longer.

With regard to the box left in your charge, I have a few words to say, and, if you will permit me, give you some instructions concerning it. It contains papers vitally affecting the fortunes of myself and many others engaged in business with me, and in the event of my death, its loss might be irreparable. You will, therefore, see the necessity of guarding it with vigilance and care to prevent so great a catastrophe. It also contains some letters addressed to yourself, and which will be necessary to enlighten you concerning the business in which we are engaged. Should none of us ever return you will please preserve carefully the box for the period of ten years from the date of this letter, and if I, or no one with authority from me during that time demands its restoration, you will open it, which can be done by removing the lock. You will find, in addition to the papers addressed to you, other papers which will be unintelligible without the aid of a key to assist you. Such a key I have left in the hands of a friend in this place, sealed, addressed to yourself, and endorsed not to be delivered until June, 1832. By means of this you will understand fully all you will be required to do.

I know you will cheerfully comply with my request, thus adding to the many obligations under which you have already placed me. In the meantime, should death or sickness happen to you, to which all are liable, please select from among your friends some one worthy, and to him hand this letter, and to him delegate your authority. I have been thus particular in my instructions, in consequence of the somewhat perilous enterprise in which we are engaged, but trust we shall meet long ere the time expires, and so save you this trouble. Be the result what it may, however, the game is worth the candle, and we will play it to the end. With kindest wishes for your most excellent wife, compliments to the ladies, a good word to enquiring friends, if there be any, and assurances of my highest esteem for yourself, I remain as ever,

Your sincere friend, T.J.B.

Read the opening paragraph, Beale says, “I shall remain here a week or ten days longer, then "ho" for the plains, to hunt the buffalo and encounter the savage grizzlies.” What the hell happened to his all-important and hugely wealthy mining enterprise?” The author really blew it here.....

 

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[ECS]

Then along came the Hart Papers with the mention of the Planters Hotel in St Louis, and then Claudine Fulton Ellis built upon the undelivered letter and combined it with the Planters Hotel and created her own Beale aftermath story...
...and with all Beale stories including Ward's original job print pamphlet, the items that all these stories are based, get lost and just disappear.
The iron box and torn numbers covered slip of paper that Pauline Innis based her book on with information also built from the Hart Papers, got lost and disappeared- No it was not taken to the United Kingdom by her cousin.

 

[bigscoop]

Note that by introducing those old receipts and then not continuing their presence once Morriss and the author held their exchange that this plays Morriss out to be extremely irresponsible, or stupid, since there is no way possible at this point that he could know if those receipts were important to the process in some way. This is in direct conflict with the alleged reason for the party supposedly selecting Morriss to begin with. Suddenly he doesn't appear to the type of person you would want to trust with important papers.

And as for the buffalo hunting and grizzly encounters, the author really blew it here by attempting to keep his main subject in that flamboyant character he has built around him, suddenly this man, and a good portion of his crew, having time to go hunt buffalo and encounter grizzlies while the other portion of his alleged crew is slaving away at the alleged mine and freezing to death.... Do you suppose these extended vacations were in his enterprise contract?

 

[bigscoop]

Then along came the Hart Papers with the mention of the Planters Hotel in St Louis, and then Claudine Fulton Ellis built upon the undelivered letter and combined it with the Planters Hotel and created her own Beale aftermath story...
...and with all Beale stories including Ward's original job print pamphlet, the items that all these stories are based, get lost and just disappear.
The iron box and torn numbers covered slip of paper that Pauline Innis based her book on with information also built from the Hart Papers, got lost and disappeared- No it was not taken to the United Kingdom by her cousin.

This is all of a different matter, the new daggers needing addressed now..... Out with the old and in with the new....can't fix the old, won't be able to fix the new either.

 

[ECS]

...

And as for the buffalo hunting and grizzly encounters, the author really blew it here by attempting to keep his main subject in that flamboyant character he has built around him, suddenly this man, and a good portion of his crew, having time to go hunt buffalo and encounter grizzlies while the other portion of his alleged crew is slaving away at the alleged mine and freezing to death.... Do you suppose these extended vacations were in his enterprise contract?

Well Beale had those friendly Indians who gladly assisted in the labors of mining that gold and silver.

 

[bigscoop]

...wow!....They really tried to bury this one deep. But here's the thing, just go to your menu bar, locate "your post/threads", click on it and then select from your recent post/threads, and POOF! Just like that you're right back to current....

All that wasted energy and conniving and collaboration to accomplish nothing....

 

[bigscoop]

The narration contains many author errors and discrepancies if we only take the required time to look for them. Like everything else we must begin our research at the source and go from there, in this case the 1885 pamphlet story is that original source. When the original source becomes routinely flawed, just as this story is, then it's wise not to take too much of the story for granted or to hold it too close to the breast. That old saying of, "If it sounds too good to be true then it probably is" is something to keep in mind when researching treasure tales of this nature. Just as with most treasure tales this one has a lot of flaws, inaccuracies, and intentional author deceptions. Little doubt that the same hand wrote it all, including the ciphers and letters.

 

[Cryptography]

......yes, I have more, but saving them for when the time comes. But here's a couple of more real daggers for true believers to start working around.

Alleged contents of the iron box according to Beale in his May 9[SUP]th[/SUP] letter to Morriss; “You will find, in addition to the papers addressed to you, other papers which will be unintelligible without the aid of a key to assist you.”

Alleged quote from Morriss in regards to the contents of the iron box; “During that year I had the lock broken, and with the exception of the two letters addressed to myself, and some old receipts, found only some unintelligible papers, covered with figures, and totally incomprehensible to me.”

Alleged contents of the iron box according to the author after gaining possession; “The two letters given above were all the box contained that were intelligible; the others, consisted of papers closely covered with figures, which were, of course, unmeaning until they could be deciphered.”

What's missing? And why is there no consistency in these three alleged statements? Beale's alleged statement is vague. The alleged Morriss statement includes old receipts. And the alleged author statement includes no such “old receipts.”

And if you really want a HUGE tell-tell, just read the following alleged letter to Morriss, a letter that by its contents directly contradicts the entire narration. Who can spot it?

St. Louis, Mo., May 9th, 1822.
Robt. Morris, Esq.:

My Esteemed Friend: - Ever since leaving my comfortable quarters at your house I have been journeying to this place, and only succeeded in reaching it yesterday. I have had altogether a pleasant time, the weather being fine and the atmosphere bracing. I shall remain here a week or ten days longer, then "ho" for the plains, to hunt the buffalo and encounter the savage grizzlies. How long I may be absent I cannot now determine, certainly no less than two years, perhaps longer.

With regard to the box left in your charge, I have a few words to say, and, if you will permit me, give you some instructions concerning it. It contains papers vitally affecting the fortunes of myself and many others engaged in business with me, and in the event of my death, its loss might be irreparable. You will, therefore, see the necessity of guarding it with vigilance and care to prevent so great a catastrophe. It also contains some letters addressed to yourself, and which will be necessary to enlighten you concerning the business in which we are engaged. Should none of us ever return you will please preserve carefully the box for the period of ten years from the date of this letter, and if I, or no one with authority from me during that time demands its restoration, you will open it, which can be done by removing the lock. You will find, in addition to the papers addressed to you, other papers which will be unintelligible without the aid of a key to assist you. Such a key I have left in the hands of a friend in this place, sealed, addressed to yourself, and endorsed not to be delivered until June, 1832. By means of this you will understand fully all you will be required to do.

I know you will cheerfully comply with my request, thus adding to the many obligations under which you have already placed me. In the meantime, should death or sickness happen to you, to which all are liable, please select from among your friends some one worthy, and to him hand this letter, and to him delegate your authority. I have been thus particular in my instructions, in consequence of the somewhat perilous enterprise in which we are engaged, but trust we shall meet long ere the time expires, and so save you this trouble. Be the result what it may, however, the game is worth the candle, and we will play it to the end. With kindest wishes for your most excellent wife, compliments to the ladies, a good word to enquiring friends, if there be any, and assurances of my highest esteem for yourself, I remain as ever,

Your sincere friend, T.J.B.

Read the opening paragraph, Beale says, [B]“I shall remain here a week or ten days longer, then "ho" for the plains, to hunt the buffalo and encounter the savage grizzlies.”[/B] What the hell happened to his all-important and hugely wealthy mining enterprise?” The author really blew it here.....

Grasping at straws are we?

 

[bigscoop]

Grasping at straws are we?

I'm not the one grasping at straws as I am utilizing the only existing provenance known to date, the original narration itself. All else has no provenance, it's just "wag" as one extremely knowledgeable and experienced contributor pointed out. That's why this term, wag, has been added to the link containing the appropriate definitions. Do you need a link to that thread so you can make the required adjustments accordingly?

Also, nor am I the one childishly bumping contrary threads down the list in order to avoid having to deal with those realities. By the way, you do realize that it is very easy and quick to reestablish those current threads, yes? All one has to do is to go to their menu, select "my post/threads" and choose whatever he or she desires to make them current again. You should have researched this a bit before you exhausted so much futile effort in trying to make those contrary facts disappear....you can't escape those realities. Sooner or later you're going to have to either accept them or provide some measure of provenance to turn those cold hard facts into your favor, which on current course can never be done.....

 

[franklin]

......yes, I have more, but saving them for when the time comes. But here's a couple of more real daggers for true believers to start working around.

Alleged contents of the iron box according to Beale in his May 9[SUP]th[/SUP] letter to Morriss; “You will find, in addition to the papers addressed to you, other papers which will be unintelligible without the aid of a key to assist you.”

Alleged quote from Morriss in regards to the contents of the iron box; “During that year I had the lock broken, and with the exception of the two letters addressed to myself, and some old receipts, found only some unintelligible papers, covered with figures, and totally incomprehensible to me.”

Alleged contents of the iron box according to the author after gaining possession; “The two letters given above were all the box contained that were intelligible; the others, consisted of papers closely covered with figures, which were, of course, unmeaning until they could be deciphered.”

What's missing? And why is there no consistency in these three alleged statements? Beale's alleged statement is vague. The alleged Morriss statement includes old receipts. And the alleged author statement includes no such “old receipts.”

And if you really want a HUGE tell-tell, just read the following alleged letter to Morriss, a letter that by its contents directly contradicts the entire narration. Who can spot it?

St. Louis, Mo., May 9th, 1822.
Robt. Morris, Esq.:

My Esteemed Friend: - Ever since leaving my comfortable quarters at your house I have been journeying to this place, and only succeeded in reaching it yesterday. I have had altogether a pleasant time, the weather being fine and the atmosphere bracing. I shall remain here a week or ten days longer, then "ho" for the plains, to hunt the buffalo and encounter the savage grizzlies. How long I may be absent I cannot now determine, certainly no less than two years, perhaps longer.

With regard to the box left in your charge, I have a few words to say, and, if you will permit me, give you some instructions concerning it. It contains papers vitally affecting the fortunes of myself and many others engaged in business with me, and in the event of my death, its loss might be irreparable. You will, therefore, see the necessity of guarding it with vigilance and care to prevent so great a catastrophe. It also contains some letters addressed to yourself, and which will be necessary to enlighten you concerning the business in which we are engaged. Should none of us ever return you will please preserve carefully the box for the period of ten years from the date of this letter, and if I, or no one with authority from me during that time demands its restoration, you will open it, which can be done by removing the lock. You will find, in addition to the papers addressed to you, other papers which will be unintelligible without the aid of a key to assist you. Such a key I have left in the hands of a friend in this place, sealed, addressed to yourself, and endorsed not to be delivered until June, 1832. By means of this you will understand fully all you will be required to do.

I know you will cheerfully comply with my request, thus adding to the many obligations under which you have already placed me. In the meantime, should death or sickness happen to you, to which all are liable, please select from among your friends some one worthy, and to him hand this letter, and to him delegate your authority. I have been thus particular in my instructions, in consequence of the somewhat perilous enterprise in which we are engaged, but trust we shall meet long ere the time expires, and so save you this trouble. Be the result what it may, however, the game is worth the candle, and we will play it to the end. With kindest wishes for your most excellent wife, compliments to the ladies, a good word to enquiring friends, if there be any, and assurances of my highest esteem for yourself, I remain as ever,

Your sincere friend, T.J.B.

Read the opening paragraph, Beale says, “I shall remain here a week or ten days longer, then "ho" for the plains, to hunt the buffalo and encounter the savage grizzlies.” What the hell happened to his all-important and hugely wealthy mining enterprise?” The author really blew it here.....

Well, I can spot the reasons that will answer your questions but I will let you think you have found something when you have not. Keep thinking on the letters and the unintelligible papers and you may see why you should not have asked that question. It is relatively easy to answer your question which should have not been asked in the first place.

 

[bigscoop]

Well, I can spot the reasons that will answer your questions but I will let you think you have found something when you have not. Keep thinking on the letters and the unintelligible papers and you may see why you should not have asked that question. It is relatively easy to answer your question which should have not been asked in the first place.

I can't wait to hear your speculations on how & why those old receipts vanished from that iron box, or how it is possible that TJB has so much free time on his hands to go hunt buffalo and chase grizzlies at such a vitally important time in his critical and risky mining enterprise. And don't even think of suggesting that he was hunting for food for the party and also hides, etc., as this will only expose that you don't really understand how much time that would require to hunt, skin, and cure. And besides, beyond the obvious, surely he would have secured those previsions beforehand........so tell me your proposed remedy to both issues.

 

[bigscoop]

You will notice that throughout the text, including the alleged letters, that the author avoids offering any details in regards to the mining process and the equipment required, or of the detailed labors required in preparation of that actual mining process. This isn't by mistake, but rather it's because the author of both subjects, the narration and the letters (most likely the same hand), didn't have that firsthand knowledge to share with his readers and so he simply left all of that to reader assumption and imagination. Nor did he offer any intimate details in regards to Santa Fe & St. Louis and likely for the same reasons. This is common practice in literature of this nature, the author placing the majority of the detail where he wants his readers to be focused the most, this allowing him to hold their interest and to still present his story without having to present details in areas where he might not have the firsthand knowledge to do so. The Beale Pamphlet has all of these earmarks and more.

 

[bigscoop]

It's interesting that folks just want to believe what they read without first taking the time to research what they read, they just want to believe in the existence of treasure and so they go chase whatever treasure tale is thrown at them without first researching the source of the tale or the tale itself. Like these folks, I want the Beale tale to be true as well, however, I'm fully aware that most treasure tales of this nature are just that, "treasure tales."

Treasure tales have been around forever, their purpose to inspire the imagination, and unfortunately, not always written strictly for entertainment or with harmless intent, the only real treasure coming from the promoting of the story itself. So why are people so eager to quickly believe in what can't even be proven to exist? This is the allure of potential fortune and fame, the presented adventure inspiring the same in readers. No doubt, the Beale papers have certainly achieved this. But other then the original story itself where is there any other source or reference of the events prior to the publication? Why can none of the events be confirmed? Why is there absolutely no trace to any of it? Why does the story itself have so many proven inaccuracies, discrepancies, and deceptions? Personally, I'm constantly amazed by how much some people are willing to overlook and completely ignore just to keep their dreams and the romance alive, and at all cost.

Perhaps there is far greater meaning in the author's reference of the word "illusion" then many realize.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Puzzled, eh...?

 

[bigscoop]

Puzzled, eh...?

Yep, I really am. I know how easy it is to fall victim to treasure tales but when there is a great deal of contrary evidence and fact to rebut the tale then I am constantly amazed and baffled as to why people are still so willing to continue to bite on the treasure tale's every word, even after it has been clearly established that those words can't be trusted. Is this what is meant by, "living the dream?"

 

[Rebel - KGC]

LOL! YOUR Provenance...?

 

[franklin]

Yep, I really am. I know how easy it is to fall victim to treasure tales but when there is a great deal of contrary evidence and fact to rebut the tale then I am constantly amazed and baffled as to why people are still so willing to continue to bite on the treasure tale's every word, even after it has been clearly established that those words can't be trusted. Is this what is meant by, "living the dream?"

Why are you amused and baffled? You have found what you were looking for, why do you not go on to something else. You want to convince people of your conclusions is a waste of your time and ours.

 

[bigscoop]

Why are you amused and baffled? You have found what you were looking for, why do you not go on to something else. You want to convince people of your conclusions is a waste of your time and ours.

"Amazed"...not amused. Big difference. It's not about my conclusions, it's about keeping things factual in face of all the lore, romance, speculation, legend, myth, and hypothetical claims that are continuing to deceive people on so many different levels. Someone has to deal in facts, keep things real-world, may as well be me, I guess. If that bothers you then start dealing in facts and it no longer will.

 

[franklin]

What difference does any of this do for you? You have already made up your mind. Take it and find something else to do. We do not need your help to help us decide whether we believe the Beale Papers or not we are not children we can make up our own minds thank you very much now BYE

 

[bigscoop]

What difference does any of this do for you? You have already made up your mind. Take it and find something else to do. We do not need your help to help us decide whether we believe the Beale Papers or not we are not children we can make up our own minds thank you very much now BYE

Go ahead, make up your own minds, that's not the issue. The issue is that you and others are trying to push blind speculation off on others as if it is fact, when it clearly is not. If not for folks like me then deceivers and schemers would free to sell whatever they wanted to folks without fear of ever being exposed. Theories are fine as long as they are presented as such, I even do this myself, but to claiming those theories to cold hard facts and actual provenance is quite something different. So keep it real and keep things in perspective, stop with all of the lore, romance, myth, legend etc., as if it is all cold hard etched in stone fact. Accept the contrary as it it really is, accept what the author has written just as he has written it and presented it. Do this and you will then be dealing in facts and presenting facts.

And as for not being children, then quit acting like children, understand the contrary points and accept the facts as they are. This is what adults typically do. Children chase fairy-tales, those things that are fantasy. Adults have the option not to believe in things that they can't establish as even being real and most depend on facts to make those decisions.