IN SEARCH OF THE AUTHENTIC ORIGIN OF THE BEALE TREASURE STORY

[Rebel - KGC]

LOL! PONDER on THAT for a while...

 

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[franklin]

One can find the influences of events and stories from the extended Risqué family bloodline beginning with that duel with Thomas Beale concerning Risqué niece Julia Hancock to the massacre of John Pickrell Risqué by Indians while inspecting gold and silver mines in Arizona, genealogy searches of people named or alluded to, the journals of Lewis & Clark (husband of Julia Hancock), Edward F Beale, Pike, Carson and others, newspaper articles on buried treasure, the Gold Bug and cipher articles by Edgar Allen Poe, Confederate cipher codes, Shakespeare candle references, adventure western dime novels,
BUT :
Not one minimal shred of evidence proving that a Thomas J Beale ever led a Party on a perilous adventure out west much less discovered gold and silver, traded silver for jewels in St Louis, stayed with Robert Morriss and the Bufords, and dug a treasure vault 4 miles from Buford's in Bedford county.

I would still like to have information on the Benjamin Cooper Party that left St. Louis in May, 1822. That would be the same time Thomas Beale and party should have left St. Louis. The newspapers upon Benjamin Cooper's arrival back in St. Louis said some of the party stayed in Sante Fe as well as some of Becknell's Party stayed in Sante Fe. Benjamin Cooper also had a Beale either staying with him or he cared for him? His name was Shadrack Beale. The Daughters of the Revolution simply listed him as Shadrack Beale of Benjamin Cooper. Don't know why. This Shadrack Beale was tied in with the Beale Family of Bealestown, PA.

 

[ECS]

...and how does this Benjamin Cooper Party and Pennsylvanian Shadrack Beale have anything to do with the Virginia Beale treasure story published for sale in 1885 Lynchburg?

 

[ECS]

There's just way too much in the story that we now know for certain today that isn't true, some of it not even being possible that has been conclusively proven. What remains there is no provenance for despite what some might claim or continue to try pushing. I will say one thing about the narration, it sure has given birth to many wild and creative treasure tales in its wake.

...and it has given birth to many claims of solution of C1 & C3 ciphers and endless digging of empty holes in Bedford county that money can buy, providing a boost to that Virginia's county economy.

A very creative story that others, like the Harts, Innis, Ellis, Rose, and many others have added their creative versions, and as you, dear reader are reading this, someone somewhere has another story behind the Beale story or a solved cipher that is different from all the other "solved" ciphers in the works preparing for presentation.
...the beat goes on...

 

[franklin]

...and how does this Benjamin Cooper Party and Pennsylvanian Shadrack Beale have anything to do with the Virginia Beale treasure story published for sale in 1885 Lynchburg?

Well first off you said you wanted to prove that a Thomas J. Beale led an expedition to the Sante Fe area. Would not this be a good way to prove it? Do you have the names of his parties expedition. Becknell's Party is most likely listed but where is the names of this Benjamin Cooper Party? Another reason I would like the names of this party is because of the two Benjamin Cooper's nephews that were guides for the party. One of them married a daughter of a Thomas Beale's brother named Zephaniah. And her ancestors were from near Buford's. Now is that not reason enough to find out something about this Expedition's name? You dwell too much on the 23 page pamphlet. There is no answers in the pamphlet we have to look to history for the answers so lighten up a little. We all believe the Beale Treasure story is most likely a story made up but if we do not search out the clues we will never know for sure?

 

[ECS]

... You dwell too much on the 23 page pamphlet.
There is no answers in the pamphlet we have to look to history for the answers so lighten up a little.
We all believe the Beale Treasure story is most likely a story made up but if we do not search out the clues we will never know for sure?

The 23 page BEALE PAPERS job print pamphlet published in 1885 Lynchburg is the origin and ONLY source of the story of a Beale Party Expedition.
On these very threads, the historical research presented by you, me and others, as well as all the endless genealogical information has clearly established that the perilous adventure and the Thomas J Beale character are just fictional creations of the alleged "unknown author".
With the total complete lack of even the slightest minimal provenance, the sureness of this simple FACT should be evident.
...And it is by this total lack of minimal provenance that others like the Harts, Innis, Ellis, Rose, and so many others can expound and build upon the Beale story with their own imaginative creations.

 

[ECS]

Well first off you said you wanted to prove that a Thomas J. Beale led an expedition to the Sante Fe area...

No. I have stated many times over that there is NO proof of a Thomas J Beale Expedition anywhere...
...and citing actual documented expeditions of Cooper, Becknell, Purcell, Logan-Bell, Pike, Cockrell, and so on as possibilities accomplishes nothing but maybe could be speculation.

 

[franklin]

No. I have stated many times over that there is NO proof of a Thomas J Beale Expedition anywhere...
...and citing actual documented expeditions of Cooper, Becknell, Purcell, Logan-Bell, Pike, Cockrell, and so on as possibilities accomplishes nothing but maybe could be speculation.

Well will you at least let us try to find out? I will look under every stone until there is no more to look under. You can at least give us time to look without cramming the 23 page pamphlet and no documented proof down our throats. All of the documented proof has not been searched yet.

 

[ECS]

... All of the documented proof has not been searched yet.

What "documented proof" of the Beale Expedition?

After 130+ years since the publication of the 1885 BEALE PAPERS should be enough "time" to realize that every stone has been looked under by many researchers and that "documented proof" of an event that never occurred outside of the 23 page job print pamphlet DOES NOT EXIST.

 

[ECS]

A documented conclusion of the Beale story is found US Lt Thomas Fawcett's report to his superior, famed codebreaker, US Col William Friedman:
"Unanswered is the question as to why he (Ward) wrote the story"
Fawcett's boots on the ground interviews in Lynchburg with Ward's great grandson, Gorham B Walker, and others led to the conclusion that the BEALE PAPERS was a work of fiction by James Beverly Ward.

"Before the matter is dropped a study should be made of the logistics of Captain Beale's alleged journey into the uncharted region north of Santa Fe"
Logistics for the time of the depicted journeys and mining activities in the Beale Papers were considered as improbable.

Then there is the documented statement of codebreaker, Elizabeth Smith Friedman:
The Beale Papers "was printed for the express purpose of selling copies of it for profit"

There exists many documented statements that convey that the Beale Papers were nothing more than a work of fiction, from newspaper owner Charles W Button who advertised the job print pamphlet, to Buford's children who had no knowledge of Beale or the treasure story.
There exists NO documented statements or proof that proves otherwise.

 

[franklin]

Yea yea yea. We have heard all that at least a hundred times or more. Let us talk with each other without all of your interruptions. Give us a break.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

AGREE!

 

[bigscoop]

Look, fellas, I've recently seen new forms of research geared toward exploring possible various connections to this or to that, some of it impressive in it's pursuit and content. However, a possible connection to what, exactly? If that story held any measure of truth then there would be something within that story that could be traced back to that truth and there just isn't, never has been. ECS is correct by his continued pointing this out because if we toss aside that original and only source material then sure, folks can find all sorts of "possible connections" in any manner they want, which is why many folks have, and want, to toss that only source material aside. So in reality the only possible connections that matter are the ones that make connection to that source material, all else is just romantic foobar.

 

[ECS]

Yea yea yea. We have heard all that at least a hundred times or more. Let us talk with each other without all of your interruptions. Give us a break.

My interruptions?
This thread revolves around the "authentic origins" of the Beale treasure story, not the genealogy of Zephaniah Beale and the Offutts and Purcells, or the Beales of Fauquier county, or the many real expeditions that actually happened that are always brought into the Beale discussion by you at least a hundred times or more.
Still, as always, NO solid documentation or provenance is provided, just this constantly recycled "facts" that are unrelated to the Beale story narrative that prove or document absolutely nothing of or in the Beale treasure story that was published in 1885.

As documented by Dr Clarence Williams, Head Researcher of The Library Of Congress in 1934:
"The pamphlet (BEALE PAPERS) story has all the earmarks of a fake...no evidence save the word of the unknown author that he ever had the papers".

As for giving us a break, it would be highly refreshing if you or anyone could produced unquestionable documented evidence that anything in the 1885 Beale Papers actually happened instead of all the speculation and the imaginative force fitted facts that are presented on these threads.
That indeed would give us all a break!

 

[franklin]

To Hell with all of it. I do not have to waste my time reading your endless post over and over. I will research this on my own. I do not have to talk to you, bigscoop or anyone else. You keep throwing the same reruns. I hate reruns and I hate wasting my time. If you do not want anyone to search out and seek the truth then I am going to do it on my own without reading your post endlessly saying the same thing over and over and over. You all have a great day and don't take any wooden nickles.

 

[bigscoop]

Settle down, Franklin, nobody said stop researching. But when you suggest that the only and original source of the tale shouldn't be the focus of connection and/or rebuttal then you're suggesting no actual connection to the only existing source of the tale is required. It's like trying to suggest that you can establish that the moon can still revolve around the earth without an earth. So YES, that only source material IS the only point of connection that matters and if no direct connection can be made to that only source material then no possible connection can be made otherwise. Period!

 

[ECS]

Because even our possibilities in themselves prove that the story never actually happened.

With all the possibilities, be it genealogical, historical, mining and field refining pre-1820, and all the alternative "cover stories" researched and discussed on these threads, it always comes back to James Beverly Ward and John William Sherman as the originators of the Beale treasure story.
There exists no pre-1885 record of a Thomas J Beale Expedition, his stay at the Washington Hotel with Morriss, or with the Bufords, or at the St Louis Planters Hotel (first mentioned in the HART PAPERS and later used by Claudine Fulton Ellis as the basis of her after the original story, story on the undelivered letter).

As Bigscoop mentioned, nobody is saying to anyone to stop their research, but without establishing that all important connection to the original 1885 Beale Papers that can be documented with hard legitimate provenance, that research fails as speculative maybes and is discarded as such.
Which leads us to the conclusions reached by so many professionals in various fields that have studied the 1885 Beale Papers- that it is a work of fiction created for the purpose of making a profit.

 

[ECS]

The single biggest problem I have about the story is, how can you have 30 men that have been away from home and family for years not take their share of the rewards for their labor to their homes?...

...and thirty families never mentioning their missing menfolk and no mention whatsoever of a Beale Party until 1885 when James Beverly Ward published the Beale Papers.

 

[legrand]

With all the possibilities, be it genealogical, historical, mining and field refining pre-1820, and all the alternative "cover stories" researched and discussed on these threads, it always comes back to James Beverly Ward and John William Sherman as the originators of the Beale treasure story.
There exists no pre-1885 record of a Thomas J Beale Expedition, his stay at the Washington Hotel with Morriss, or with the Bufords, or at the St Louis Planters Hotel (first mentioned in the HART PAPERS and later used by Claudine Fulton Ellis as the basis of her after the original story, story on the undelivered letter).

As Bigscoop mentioned, nobody is saying to anyone to stop their research, but without establishing that all important connection to the original 1885 Beale Papers that can be documented with hard legitimate provenance, that research fails as speculative maybes and is discarded as such.
Which leads us to the conclusions reached by so many professionals in various fields that have studied the 1885 Beale Papers- that it is a work of fiction created for the purpose of making a profit.

The last part.... "that it is a work of fiction created for the purpose of making a profit."

Adjust to: "that it is a work of fiction created to stymie cryptographers and having a hidden treasure trail embedded within the fictional game story."

There.

 

[ECS]

The last part.... "that it is a work of fiction created for the purpose of making a profit."

Adjust to: "that it is a work of fiction created to stymie cryptographers and having a hidden treasure trail embedded within the fictional game story."

There.

So hidden in fact, it hasn't been decoded and found in 130+ years!