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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    That explains the reason why Clay, Witcher, Coles, Jackson, and Chief Justice Marshall as well as Max Guggenheiner, Esq are mentioned in the narrative text, and also why the niece at whose house the "unknown author" received the Beale story from Morriss is not.
    Question: Since Max Guggenheiner, Esq. was still living in Lynchburg, Va and the only name mentioned that did live in Lynchburg, Va at the time of the publication and it being in the newspapers daily---------would not you think that Max was in on the profits from the story? He would have had to know about it, I mean the story ran daily in the newspapers for over eighty days.

    What if anything did he write down in his diary or journal about the "BEALE PAPERS" I would like to know.

    Is there any diaries of anyone in the Lynchburg City area that kept one during 1885?
    Last edited by franklin; Feb 08, 2018 at 10:22 AM.
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  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    That explains the reason why Clay, Witcher, Coles, Jackson, and Chief Justice Marshall as well as Max Guggenheiner, Esq are mentioned in the narrative text, and also why the niece at whose house the "unknown author" received the Beale story from Morriss is not.
    Not a bad thing, as long as the text is classified as fiction or nonfiction so not to confuse the reader. Or the librarian.
    Genre does not matter as much ....but is enhanced by introducing enough real elements; regardless of classification.
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  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Question: Since Max Guggenheiner, Esq. was still living in Lynchburg, Va and the only name mentioned that did live in Lynchburg, Va at the time of the publication and it being in the newspapers daily---------would not you think that Max was in on the profits from the story? He would have had to know about it, I mean the story ran daily in the newspapers for over eighty days.

    What if anything did he write down in his diary or journal about the "BEALE PAPERS" I would like to know.

    Is there any diaries of anyone in the Lynchburg City area that kept one during 1885?
    I just talked on the telephone with a grand nephew of Max Guggenheimer. He knows all about his great uncle. He says he was a Captain in the Confederate States of America's Army. He went on to mention all of his businesses and enterprises. I asked him about his name being in a book written in 1885 by James Beverly Ward and the ad for the book ran over eighty days in the Lynchburg Newspapers. I asked him did he know anything about this? His reply was no. I asked him did Max his great uncle keep a diary or journal and he said he knew all about his great uncle and no he did not keep a diary or journal.

  4. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    The Battle of New Orleans would have been a "perilous adventure" but that happened before 1817-1822? It is odd though that most of the men were from Virginia and they were all businessmen in New Orleans. Usually businessmen worked together with pirates. Maybe Thomas Beale was a crack shot because getting a chance to shoot so many when they were being robbed on the high seas.

    If the story was actually true? And I doubt it? But anyone of the businessmen or any of the pirates even Jean Lafitte could have came to Bedford County and/or Lynchburg and acted like Thomas Beale. That all depends on whether Robert Morriss actually knew Thomas Beale as a merchantman or not? Also whether James Beverly Risque saw him and inquired as to where his name came from because he did know him, after all he was almost killed by Thomas Beale in a gun duel. So many unanswered questions and no where to find the facts that will confirm an answer.

    We know Thomas Beale most likely talked to General Jackson. If James Beverly Risque was his adjutant and bodyguard, it seems the two men should have met. Also Paschal Buford was in this battle. With only 2,000 or so men counting the Indians, you would think these men would have met?
    Well, watched the History Channel on Telly, this AM. 1st Invasion: War of 1812; had Battle of NO. Gen. Jackson sent out a "call" for men of ALL races, colors (Free or not), Pirates, etc. to defend NO, and they did. Brits lost quite a few, KIA; Americans lost only about 13 (KIA); many WIA or POW... Thomas Beale's Rifles were POW on a Brit ship... YET! Did Thomas Beale Sr. or Pierre Lafitte come to L'burg seeking recruits for the Battle of NO...? Jean ALWAYS stayed at home in NO at THE TEMPLE in the French Quarter with his "loot/bounty" from the "High Sea"; later MAYBE moving the LaFitte "loot/bounty" to St. Loo & then MAYBE Virginia. This TRUE "event" COULD HAVE been utilized for BBP being a COVER-STORY. JBR bought a LOT of land around L'burg... did he tell Gen. AJ...? Did JBR have land, in the Fla. "Pan-handle"...? Is that why JBW's kids/JBR Grand-kids moved there...? Are they buried there...? I think Buford, Beale, Risque, Jackson, the Lafittes DID know each other... they MAY have drank a few Bee Ale, at Thomas Beale, Sr.'s Tavern... down in NO. Dunno.
    Last edited by Rebel - KGC; Feb 08, 2018 at 03:43 PM.
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  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by releventchair View Post
    Not a bad thing, as long as the text is classified as fiction or nonfiction so not to confuse the reader. Or the librarian.
    Genre does not matter as much ....but is enhanced by introducing enough real elements; regardless of classification.
    "Historical" fiction with the names of real people was dime novel norm during the same time period of the Beale Papers publications.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    ... I think Buford, Beale, Risque, Jackson, the Lafittes DID know each other... they MAY have drank a few Bee Ale, at Thomas Beale, Sr. Tavern... down in NO...
    That is a highly likely possibility!
    "Whiskey for my men, beer for my horses"
    ...or was that absinthe?
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  7. #142

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    LOL!
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  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    ...Since Max Guggenheiner, Esq. was still living in Lynchburg, Va and the only name mentioned that did live in Lynchburg, Va at the time of the publication and it being in the newspapers daily---------would not you think that Max was in on the profits from the story? He would have had to know about it, I mean the story ran daily in the newspapers for over eighty days...
    Not sure about sharing in any profits, but he also advertised in the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN, knew Ward, Sherman, the Hutters, and Charles W Button owner of that newspaper (Button claimed that his sub-editor Sherman was the author of the Beale Papers), and had copies for sale at his store.
    He most definitely had to have inside knowledge concerning the Beale story being included as name dropped "dressing" for believability in the narrative text.
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  9. #144
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    I have read something similar but not exact words? Do you have a link to that being said by Charles Button?
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  10. #145
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    Article in the NEWS & ADVANCE, April 18,2015 by Joe Stinnett mentions that remark by Charles W Button.
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  11. #146

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    TRUE; about a Sub-Editor (John William Sherman) writing the BPP; I "posted" the "addy" of the article before, HOWEVER! NOTHING in the 1887 book, SKETCHBOOK OF LYNCHBURG: A Story As Told In 1887 by Edward Pollock re. BPP being for sale, then. Hmmm...
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  12. #147
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    Interesting. One would think that if THE BEALE PAPERS was a real treasure story, it would have been mentioned in SKETCHBOOK OF LYNCHBURG, which was printed by the VIRGINIA JOB PRINTING HOUSE of Lynchburg.
    Wasn't this the same printing company that printed the Beale Papers that was associated with Button's LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN newspaper?

    HISTORIC SKETCH OF BEDFORD COUNTY was written by Rowland D Buford (son of Pascal Buford of Beale's Buford Inn) and N D Hawkins.
    There is NO mention of Thomas J Beale or the Beale Papers in this work.
    Rowland D Buford was the Bedford County Clerk for many years, and knew James Beverly Ward and Ward's wife Harriet, who was a cousin that was raised "4 miles from Bufords".

    "and to a great extent the Buford children (Rowland, Margaret, Ann) were responsible for the pamphlet being withdrawn from further sale shortly after its distribution in April, 1885"-ONE LETTER, ONE ENCLOSURE
    Last edited by ECS; Feb 09, 2018 at 06:40 PM. Reason: Corrected date error
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  13. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    Interesting. One would think that if THE BEALE PAPERS was a real treasure story, it would have been mentioned in SKETCHBOOK OF LYNCHBURG, which was printed by the VIRGINIA JOB PRINTING HOUSE of Lynchburg.
    Wasn't this the same printing company that printed the Beale Papers that was associated with Button's LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN newspaper?

    HISTORIC SKETCH OF BEDFORD COUNTY was written by Rowland D Buford (son of Pascal Buford of Beale's Buford Inn) and N D Hawkins.
    There is NO mention of Thomas J Beale or the Beale Papers in this work.
    Rowland D Buford was the Bedford County Clerk for many years, and knew James Beverly Ward and Ward's wife Harriet, who was a cousin that was raised "4 miles from Bufords".

    "and to a great extent the Buford children (Rowland, Margaret, Ann) were responsible for the pamphlet being withdrawn from further sale shortly after its distribution in April, 1865"-ONE LETTER, ONE ENCLOSURE
    LOL! It HAD to be 1885!
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  14. #149

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    AND! The SKETCHBOOK of L'BURG, VA was done in May 1, 1887. Dunno if it was a "JOB PRINT"...
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  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    LOL! It HAD to be 1885!
    You are correct. It was a typing error.
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