WAS THE CANDLE WORTH THE GAME? - Page 19
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Thread: WAS THE CANDLE WORTH THE GAME?

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  1. #271
    ECS
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    Please expound.
    You do realize that you are the one doing the harassing, don't you?
    Last edited by ECS; Nov 11, 2019 at 10:56 AM.

  2. #272
    Treasures2Find
    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    Please expound.
    You do realize that you are the one doing the harassing, don't you?
    I haven't been following your posts to tell you how wrong you are. You do exactly that with every poster on here that has differing views than your own.
    I am speaking up now, because you can push people only so far. On behalf of many Beale posters, I ask you to please stop the rock throwing.
    Honestly, I don't think there's anyone on here, except maybe one or two, who are convinced, without a shadow of doubt, that the Beale story is 100% truth. That doesn't mean we can't discuss it, and in our discussions, we would appreciate a little consideration on your part.

  3. #273
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treasures2Find View Post
    I haven't been following your posts to tell you how wrong you are...
    It does appear that you do to make all these judgements.

  4. #274
    Treasures2Find
    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    It does appear that you do to make all these judgements.
    It seems you forgot to read the rest of the post. Old age?
    Rebel - KGC likes this.

  5. #275
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treasures2Find View Post
    It seems you forgot to read the rest of the post. Old age?
    Are you now resorting to ageist insults?

  6. #276
    Treasures2Find
    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    Are you now resorting to ageist insults?
    I simplr ashed a question. Did you not see the question mark?
    Rebel - KGC likes this.

  7. #277
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    One can not "forget the Beale Papers" as it is the ONLY source of this fabulous perilous adventure treasure story, no collaborating evidence outside of the pamphlet to support the Beale adventure, his stay with Morriss and at Buford's, or Robert Morriss passing the tale on to an alleged "unknown author".

    There are ONLY three references in the Beale Papers that can be verified, and placed as believable bait to encourage sales:
    The home where Sarah Mitchell Morris died
    The home where Robert Morris died (neither of these residences owners are mentioned by name)
    "On old and valued friend"- Max Guggenheimer (who had copies of the dime novel pamphlet at his store for sale)
    Another curious aspect in the Beale narrative are the ciphers.
    The provided DOI "solved" C2 has flaws in the numbering, as if the original person doing the coding candle had burned out, and was later completed by another who lack the same cipher acumen.
    The remaining C1& C3 ciphers appear to be numbers randomly used with no attempt at creating a real message.
    If the original cipher creator died, that may explain why Ward applied for copyright with only the title and not a copy of the alleged "unnamed authors" finished manuscript that was given Ward for the sole purpose of copyright and publishing.
    Last edited by ECS; Nov 12, 2019 at 04:21 PM.

  8. #278
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    We can throw what information we have around and around. But we can still not confirm one way or the other whether the story actually happened or not.
    We need some letter, some diary or anything that mentions the story being made up for sale to make money for a charity or cause. There is none.
    We know we can not find any factual information to confirm the trip of TJB and his companions out West. Without the trip out West is where all of these different beliefs and text keep coming in to play by different individuals claiming a "SOLVE"
    Without the proof of anyone going West there is nothing but a "FICTION STORY" left for us to see.
    I have went over the Spanish Archives of the Southwest during that time frame. No party of thirty white Americans or thirty French trappers ever came to Sante Fe for the Winter in 1817.
    So with no confirmation of them being in Sante Fe proves that the Beale Story is just that a "STORY"
    All of these other tangents skewing off from the "Job Print Pamphlet" are unfounded.
    All of these myths of someone "DECODING" the cipher codes is all unfounded and all the stories of KGC, CSA or anything else is far fetched. So all we have left is a "FICTION STORY" ...
    The point that seems always to be missed, is that the BEALE PAPERS was a "FICTION STORY" written specifically to be sold in 1885 Lynchburg, a localized period adventure treasure dime novel with the ciphers added as a play along puzzle as parlor entertainment.
    There were probably apparent "tells" in the narrative that would have been recognized by those in 1885 Lynchburg, for no one picked up a shovel and went to Bedford county as directed by William Sherman's tongue in cheek pamphlet review in the LYNCHBURG VIRGIAN newspaper.

  9. #279
    Treasures2Find
    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    The point that seems always to be missed, is that the BEALE PAPERS was a "FICTION STORY" written specifically to be sold in 1885 Lynchburg, a localized period adventure treasure dime novel with the ciphers added as a play along puzzle as parlor entertainment.
    There were probably apparent "tells" in the narrative that would have been recognized by those in 1885 Lynchburg, for no one picked up a shovel and went to Bedford county as directed by William Sherman's tongue in cheek pamphlet review in the LYNCHBURG VIRGIAN newspaper.
    Did you say "probably"?
    Rebel - KGC likes this.

  10. #280
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    How are you going to find any information as to the truth of the Beale Papers if we do not research into the people and places of where the story originated?
    There is no answer in the Pamphlet called the Beale Papers so we have to go to the source of the story...
    ...and the "source" of the Beale story is Ward's published account of receiving a FINISHED MANUSCRIPT in 1884 from an unnamed author concerning what was told to him by Robert Morriss on his deathbed during the 2nd year of the Confederate War.
    The finished manuscript did not include the "ORIGINAL" Beale letters or ciphers on which the entire story is based on the word of James Beverly Ward as agent for copyright and publisher, which is really not the same as confirmation that the Beale story or that of the unnamed author is true.

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    ...and the "source" of the Beale story is Ward's published account of receiving a FINISHED MANUSCRIPT in 1884 from an unnamed author concerning what was told to him by Robert Morriss on his deathbed during the 2nd year of the Confederate War.
    The finished manuscript did not include the "ORIGINAL" Beale letters or ciphers on which the entire story is based on the word of James Beverly Ward as agent for copyright and publisher, which is really not the same as confirmation that the Beale story or that of the unnamed author is true.
    The original letters were not in the published, Job Print Pamphlet of the Beale Papers but a copy of the letters was in the pamphlet. I know without the original letters the story still could have been made up but the story also could be fact? We simply do not know unless someone in their searches can find a confirmation or a letter stating they made the story up to sale for profit.
    Rebel - KGC likes this.

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    ...and the "source" of the Beale story is Ward's published account of receiving a FINISHED MANUSCRIPT in 1884 from an unnamed author concerning what was told to him by Robert Morriss on his deathbed during the 2nd year of the Confederate War.
    The finished manuscript did not include the "ORIGINAL" Beale letters or ciphers on which the entire story is based on the word of James Beverly Ward as agent for copyright and publisher, which is really not the same as confirmation that the Beale story or that of the unnamed author is true.
    And if you would merely consider the fact that the Pamphlet was written by a forger with the interest of passing on encrypted information, you would at least discredit the so-called historical record and look for a more suitable explanation for all of the inconsistencies.

    As if they are deemed incorrect by the research you hold, you would then rule out that theory instead of propagating the assumption that it must contain "Authentic Statements" that will lead you to your indulgence.

    You are still playing the roles feeding argumentative banter in place of legitimate investigation into the reason that it was encrypted in the first place.....

    The only reason that these are encrypted in any fashion is to conceal something, and to do that they showed you how ignorant that they were to the facts that they used as a cover story.

    These separatists were clearly not spending enough time in their Grand Lodges, and instead they were colluding in "Castles" as you clearly have forgotten.
    But he who knows forms, is able to grasp the unity of nature beneath the surface of materials which are very unlike. Thus is he able to identify and bring about things that have never been done before, things of the kind which neither the vicissitudes of nature, nor hard experimenting, nor pure accident could ever have actualized, nor even human thought dreamed of. And thus from the discovery of the forms flows true speculation and unrestricted operation.

  13. #283

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldo View Post
    And if you would merely consider the fact that the Pamphlet was written by a forger with the interest of passing on encrypted information, you would at least discredit the so-called historical record and look for a more suitable explanation for all of the inconsistencies.

    As if they are deemed incorrect by the research you hold, you would then rule out that theory instead of propagating the assumption that it must contain "Authentic Statements" that will lead you to your indulgence.

    You are still playing the roles feeding argumentative banter in place of legitimate investigation into the reason that it was encrypted in the first place.....

    The only reason that these are encrypted in any fashion is to conceal something, and to do that they showed you how ignorant that they were to the facts that they used as a cover story.

    These separatists were clearly not spending enough time in their Grand Lodges, and instead they were colluding in "Castles" as you clearly have forgotten.
    KGC Castles became OAK "conclaves" after the Confederate War... MOSTLY by RR.

  14. #284
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldo View Post
    And if you would merely consider the fact that the Pamphlet was written by a forger with the interest of passing on encrypted information, you would at least discredit the so-called historical record and look for a more suitable explanation for all of the inconsistencies...
    If one considers your "forger scenario" for the creation of the BEALE PAPERS, the must provide a direct connection to the agent of copyright and publisher, James Beverly Ward, and the printer, John William Sherman, AND the reason for involvement with this alleged "forger".

  15. #285

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    If one considers your "forger scenario" for the creation of the BEALE PAPERS, the must provide a direct connection to the agent of copyright and publisher, James Beverly Ward, and the printer, John William Sherman, AND the reason for involvement with this alleged "forger".
    AGREE!
    ECS likes this.

 

 
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