Who Was The Big Fat Liar?

bigscoop

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I have deposited in the county of Bedford, about four miles from Buford's, in an excavation or vault, six feet below the surface of the ground, the following articles, belonging jointly to the parties whose names are given in number "3," herewith:

The first deposit consisted of one thousand and fourteen pounds of gold, and three thousand eight hundred and twelve pounds of silver, deposited November, 1819. The second was made December, 1821, and consisted of nineteen hundred and seven pounds of gold, and twelve hundred and eighty-eight pounds of silver; also jewels, obtained in St. Louis in exchange for silver to save transportation, and valued at $13,000.

The above is securely packed in iron pots, with iron covers. The vault is roughly lined with stone, and the vessels rest on solid stone, and are covered with others. Paper number "1" describes the exact locality of the vault so that no difficulty will be had in finding it.


So who is the big fat liar here, the alleged character TJB, or the unknown author? You see, the alleged author of the plain text for C2 makes perfectly clear that the ciphers have been numbered 1,2,3, and yet the unknown author says no such numerical order existed and that it is only by his own tactical genius that he was able to lay them out according to their length and then number them in the correct order, even though length has absolutely zero bearing in determining that correct order. Not only this but how could the author determine how to lay them out correctly, short to long or long to short?

How could the writer of the alleged secret codes know that some completely unknown decoder in the distant future was going to eventually number his ciphers 1,2,3, and in the correct order? Very obviously, he couldn't know that UNLESS he and that unknown author held some other undisclosed close collaboration. This is the only way that the alleged writer of the code and the alleged decoder in the distant future could arrive at the same correct numbering of the ciphers with any certainty. PERIOD!

Now then, where does this leave us? Well no matter how one tries to remedy this true situation it either leaves the writer of the code as being a big fat liar or it leaves the unknown author to be a big fat liar. And in the case of those who determine that Ward made changes to the manuscript, well, then that only paints Ward out to be a big fat liar. So no matter how one determines to remedy the situation it leaves the 1885 tale to be “a published tale that is the product of a big fat liar.” PERIOD!

Now true believers hate to be faced with this harsh reality, they avoid it all cost, but THE COLD HARD TRUTH from which there is no escape will always be staring them squarely in the face. And this “existing factual condition” is just but one such dagger that exist in this fabulous 1885 tale of hidden treasure.

So, who will one choose to be his big fat liar, his escape goat? Or, as most unknowingly do, will they choose them all? :laughing7:
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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The point is, you can't claim that any one of these elements is true without also claiming that other related aspects of the tale are a big fat lie. And yet, even with this existing fact in place, folks still want to march to the beat that the tale is true and that it's details can be considered to be trusted facts, when in fact, just the opposite is true right at the tales very core, each "alternate twist and turn" only shifting the same deceit from one element to the next. :thumbsup:
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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See what I mean....:laughing7: The most recent shameful and devilish attempt turning every character in the tale into a big fat liar...:laughing7:
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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By YOU...?

St Louis, Mo, May 9th, 1822

Dear Mr Morriss
It has been ten years from the time I last saw you. You are receiving this letter as promised in 1822.

Please open the box by breaking the lock. You will find two letters address to you and three ciphers. Please read the letters first as they will give you more information about the purpose of the box.

The three ciphers can be decrypted by the use of the key and the procedure that is on the page 2 of this letter.
Cipher number 1 is determined by the 71 as the starting number. Cipher number 2 is determined by the 115 as the starting number. Cipher number 3 is determined by the 317 as the starting number.

You can see they are in order 71 the lowest number is first and 317 the larger number last.

The three ciphers will reveal the true story of what our business has been out West with no problems finding what we have hidden so long ago.

Don't let any false punctillio prevent you from this task at hand or your reward.

Page 1

:laughing7:.....
you do realize that the above is a complete fabrication, yes?This likewise completely contrary to what is presented in 1885 tale, which makes the unknown author, the tale's TJB, Morriss and Ward, all out to be big fat liars....:laughing7: This is what "always" happens when one has manufactured and twisted things so much that they eventually have to rely upon obvious and manufactured deceptions due to the lack of any actual facts in all of their ridiculous and fantastical claims. :icon_thumright:
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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Will review THAT letter, again... dunno.
"It has been ten years from the time I last saw you. You are receiving this letter as promised in 1822."

If the alleged TJB's last visit was in 1822 and 10 years have passed since, how can we still be in 1822? :laughing7:
Now he has the alleged TJB not even being able to do simple math...:laughing7: Not only this but the entire writing style and grammar has changed, spelling skills are also now seriously lacking....:laughing7: Obviously penned by a different and more recent hand.....:thumbsup:
 

Rebel - KGC

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"It has been ten years from the time I last saw you. You are receiving this letter as promised in 1822."

If the alleged TJB's last visit was in 1822 and 10 years have passed since, how can we still be in 1822? :laughing7:
Now he has the alleged TJB not even being able to do simple math...:laughing7: Not only this but the entire writing style and grammar has changed, spelling skills are also now seriously lacking....:laughing7: Obviously penned by a different and more recent hand.....:thumbsup:
Dunno, sounds like 1812 (War of 1812?). LAST "visit" COULD have been in New Orleans... MAYBE! WHO was in New Orleans in 1812...? JB Risqué, P. Buford, A. Jackson, T. Beale (Sr.), J. Lafitte...
 

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Rebel - KGC

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Was R. Morriss in New Orleans, then...? Meeting at Thomas Beale (Sr.)'s restaurant with the OTHERS planning what to do with the TREASURE (Lafitte's Bros.) JB Risqué & P. Buford "sitting in"...? Gen. Andrew Jackson later involved...? 1815, Gen. Andrew Jackson was in Lynchburg, Va., on the way to D.C. to seek pardon for the Lafitte Bros; he MAY have stayed with Thomas Jefferson...
 

Rebel - KGC

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Was the long haired dark complexion guy, PIERRE LAFITTE...? Jean did not travel around, although later legends had him living in St. Louis (with a DIFFERENT name); hmmm...
 

Hillbilly Prince

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How many iron pots and lids would have been required to contain this much gold? Who provided these pots? Who made the pots?
If there is evidence of any characters actually existing, was there evidence of wealth in their lifestyle without visible means of support?
Were these people content to die without providing for their heirs and leave this vast fortune to them?
Rebel, you should be able to answer these questions. You seem to know more than you have divulged :icon_king::icon_queen::binkybaby::binkybaby::dog::dog::icon_jokercolor:
 

franklin

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How many iron pots and lids would have been required to contain this much gold? Who provided these pots? Who made the pots?
If there is evidence of any characters actually existing, was there evidence of wealth in their lifestyle without visible means of support?
Were these people content to die without providing for their heirs and leave this vast fortune to them?
Rebel, you should be able to answer these questions. You seem to know more than you have divulged :icon_king::icon_queen::binkybaby::binkybaby::dog::dog::icon_jokercolor:

There are only two characters in the story, Robert Morriss that owned the Washington Hotel and a Thomas J. Beale according to the story the author got from Robert Morriss a few months before Robert Morriss died. The author is unknown. Then you have the copyright application by James B. (Beverly) Ward. James Beverly Ward lived in the area of Lynchburg, Virginia as did Robert Morriss. But there has been no information found on which Thomas J. Beale was the true explorer named in the story?

Robert Morriss was a man of rich means up until the "Recession of 1819" He had made large investments in tobacco and the price of tobacco had it's bottom fall out. Still Robert Morriss had a lot of wealth left. He had over 30 properties in three different counties. He sold off about 20 of them advertised in the newspapers. He raised enough capital to open up the Washington House by purchasing it with a ten year promissory not to four wealthy Lynchburg citizens. He must have done well in the hotel business as he left the Washington House in 1826 and his contract must have been paid off as it terminated in 1828.

As for James Beverly Ward, he was a farmer that was in financial trouble ever since his grandfather, James Beverly Risque died in 1843. He had two saw mills in 1853 and he was forced to sell them in the 1870's to pay debtors. Later in late, 1876, the court put his land and his mother's farms up for sale. He had went to St. Louis after his grandfather passed away and was a pay clerk at Jefferson Barracks. He was also for a while paymaster at a Fort near Pensacola, Florida. Later returned home and died at the home of his daughter in Lynchburg.

As for Thomas J. Beale, no researcher has found any information on him, his thirty associates or whether the grand adventure ever took place in 1817 to 1822. Nothing in the Spanish Archives, nothing in the newspapers. So did it happen at all, I do not think so. So no codes to solve as there is no treasure to find.
 

Rebel - KGC

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How many iron pots and lids would have been required to contain this much gold? Who provided these pots? Who made the pots?
If there is evidence of any characters actually existing, was there evidence of wealth in their lifestyle without visible means of support?
Were these people content to die without providing for their heirs and leave this vast fortune to them?
Rebel, you should be able to answer these questions. You seem to know more than you have divulged :icon_king::icon_queen::binkybaby::binkybaby::dog::dog::icon_jokercolor:
:laughing7:
 

Rebel - KGC

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Well, the BPP indicate that the guys from Lynchburg, Va. area were men of "independent means" (wealthy...? Dunno). I think that it was @ 10 pots/lids used; BEAN POTS! NOT certain that they were "family men"... sounds like a "Lodge" of FREE MEN, who organized themselves with 20 more men (10 or 11 from Va.), in St. Louis. Upon organizing 30 men or so in St. Louis, their guide suggested a "military style formation", with TJB being ELECTED as Captain of his Associates; which sounds like a Royal Arch Chapter of Free-Masons to me.
 

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Rebel - KGC

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IF... they were Free-Masons, Marshall Lodge # 39 was the ONLY lodge existing in Lynchburg, Va. at the time of the Beale Expedition; don't know of any Royal Arch Chapter.
 

Rebel - KGC

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COULD have been that TJB & RM were members of Marshall Lodge # 39 (instituted Nov. 8, 1793) named for GRAND MASTER of Masons in Virginia, Chief Justice John Marshall. Early meetings of the Lodge met at an Inn, then had their own building (9th & Church Street); it was used for MANY functions; building destroyed by fire in July, 1997... MANY old records/documents DESTROYED!
 

franklin

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I do not know if Robert Morriss was a freemason or not? I do know he held Masonic Balls and dances at the Washington House. And also that he was a Southern Sympathizer during the Civil War. As for James Beverly Ward and N.H. Hazelwood you said they were Masons, but JBW did not pay his dues and was ex-communicated.
 

Rebel - KGC

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Naw, JBW was a member (Master Mason) of Dove Lodge # 51 in Richmond, Va.; he could visit Marshall Lodge # 39; then Hill City Lodge # 183 started in 1859 in the Col. John Ward Building on Church & 10th Streets, & he could visit there, until he was suspended for non-payment of dues (Richmond); unless he transferred his membership to Hill City Lodge. NO documents found of such (I was member of HCL, MM & RAM).
 

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Rebel - KGC

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Dunno, sounds like 1812 (War of 1812?). LAST "visit" COULD have been in New Orleans... MAYBE! WHO was in New Orleans in 1812...? JB Risqué, P. Buford, A. Jackson, T. Beale (Sr.), J. Lafitte...
The "players" of the BPP were in the SAME place! New Orleans! 1812, 10 years previous to 1822... So! To do MORE R & I...
 

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