Voyage to Guanaham(Solving the Beales Cipher) by: JNCC - Page 5
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Thread: Voyage to Guanaham(Solving the Beales Cipher) by: JNCC

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  1. #61
    ph
    May 2020
    748
    270 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    Cherokee Nation owned PoO; it was named... OTTARI (Ottari). "Google" Peaks of Otter - wiki.
    Yes, I think that the name really came from Indians. Its too odd that I found some references about this in Page 1 and 3, another coincidence/s.

    people without number but with(305) name when I came(139) it was impossible to speak to the people(189) me in my voyage(17) to the Indies with the fleet(33) the name of San Salvador(88) I could not(208) speak(193)
    ---
    Queen(44) given me(16) island(401) that(39) the name of San Salvador(88) of all I have taken possession for their highness(61)

    the first island I discovered I gave the name of(81) Queen(44) in my voyage I write this(18) Isabella the(126) Island of Santa Maria(115) to each one I gave a new name(132)
    ---
    the name of San Salvador(88) given(16) to(80) the third(121) their Highness by proclamation(67) His Divine Majesty(95)
    ---
    a certain harbor(275) of the(74) island I discovered(83) success(11) the land there is elevated(426) name of San Salvador(89)
    ---
    name of San Salvador(89) in my voyage I write this to tell you(18) gave a new name(136) their highness(68) returned I heard(317) in thirty(28) of San Salvador(90) first(82) communities and people(304) proclamation and display(71) and(43) finding at the end of many leagues that nothing new appeared(221) because they fled(198) no towns nor villages(178) with no kind of government(310) I heard from other Indians(319) the first(81) name of San Salvador(89) proceeding(264) northern coast(380) inhabited by numberless people(56) The fleet that the illustrious king and Queen our sovereigns gave me(37) heard from other Indians(319).


    Why could he not speak? does he mean pronounce? Who exactly is Other Indians?It seems to me that there are different groups there.

    Highness = Mountain
    Queen = Female
    San Salvador = Harkening Hill.
    Proclamation = speak/owner
    Santa Maria = Land north west of Sharp top
    Voyage = Journey

    But still this Key is very Questionable...
    Last edited by jhonnz41; Feb 20, 2021 at 07:51 AM.

  2. #62
    ph
    May 2020
    748
    270 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Can we now at least dissect this word for word using the key? Number by number?

    For me it will be best to check for the errors in this decipherment rather than basing the Beale Papers..

    First line (71) is Proclamation, this was followed by (194)to the people, look at the key and notice the word before "to the people" was "Speak" as if intentionally taken maybe to boost Morriss confidence that he is doing it right?Idk.

    So with this, I thought that "Proclamation", came from the word Proclaim seconded by the word "Speak".
    means that Proclamation = Speak.

    The third (38) word was "Fleet that the Illustrious King and Queen our Sovereign gave me". Now, let us go back to the 2nd(194)word "to the people". The last word is PEOPLE, This relates to the word FLEET(refers to Group of ships). As if it was used as,

    Group of People. The first three lines will now be..

    Speak to the group of people that the Illustrious King and Queen our Sovereign gave me.

    In page three, you will encounter who or what was meant by this Illustrious King, Queen, Sovereign. This may be nonsense for now but it was there.
    Last edited by jhonnz41; Feb 20, 2021 at 01:26 PM.

  3. #63
    us
    Jack

    Jan 2015
    712
    175 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by jhonnz41 View Post
    Can we now at least dissect this word for word using the key? Number by number?

    For me it will be best to check for the errors in this decipherment rather than basing the Beale Papers..

    First line (71) is Proclamation, this was followed by (194)to the people, look at the key and notice the word before "to the people" was "Speak" as if intentionally taken maybe to boost Morriss confidence that he is doing it right?Idk.

    So with this, I thought that "Proclamation", came from the word Proclaim seconded by the word "Speak".
    means that Proclamation = Speak.

    The third (38) word was "Fleet that the Illustrious King and Queen our Sovereign gave me". Now, let us go back to the 2nd(194)word "to the people". The last word is PEOPLE, This relates to the word FLEET(refers to Group of ships). As if it was used as,

    Group of People. The first three lines will now be..

    Speak to the group of people that the Illustrious King and Queen our Sovereign gave me.

    In page three, you will encounter who or what was meant by this Illustrious King, Queen, Sovereign. This may be nonsense for now but it was there.
    How many books have you used to decode the Beale Ciphers? Have you decyphered page two as the person did in 1866+or- 20 years to get this known decoding for page 2?


    I have deposited in the county of Bedford, about four miles from Buford's, in an excavation or vault, six feet below the surface of the ground, the following articles, belonging jointly to the parties whose names are given in number three, herewith:

    The first deposit consisted of ten hundred and fourteen pounds of gold, and thirty-eight hundred and twelve pounds of silver, deposited Nov. eighteen nineteen. The second was made Dec. eighteen twenty-one, and consisted of nineteen hundred and seven pounds of gold, and twelve hundred and eighty-eight of silver; also jewels, obtained in St. Louis in exchange to save transportation, and valued at thirteen thousand dollars.

    The above is securely packed in iron pots, with iron covers. The vault is roughly lined with stone, and the vessels rest on solid stone, and are covered with others. Paper number one describes the exact locality of the vault, so that no difficulty will be had in finding it.

  4. #64
    ph
    May 2020
    748
    270 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Followed by:

    (1701) And a boat with a master seaman
    (89) name of
    (76) Royal Standard


    1701 is a reference to the name of Juan de la cosa, the Captain of the Flagship Santa Maria by Christopher Columbus. In this number we only get the name of Juan(Hispaniola) converted into John(English). I know you will ask why, we will get in that part about the names and aliases, more on page 3..:-)

    89 is simply name of, this followed by 76 Royal Standard.

    At first I did not know what Royal Standard mean(I figured the word Noble after 3 months of research, I used the word rich before), I only know that it was used like a ranking or position in a society. example: Your Highness, Your Majesty...It can also be used as a person with a lot of money/rich. Few months in my research I got a 1 better word..

    Royal Standard means a Noble. With this, the three numbers combined will be. John is the name of the Noble. Full sentence of numbers 1 to 6 will be.

    Speak to the group of people that the Illustrious king and Queen our Sovereign gave me, and John is the name of the noble.

    There are statements in both 1 and 3 that links Illustrious King to John, clearly referring that it was a person, with some action words of what he did that the party become successful..
    Last edited by jhonnz41; Feb 20, 2021 at 10:13 PM.

  5. #65
    ph
    May 2020
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    Followed by:

    (11) Success that our Lord has given me
    (83) Island I discovered
    (1629) With the mainland on this side
    (48) me where I
    (94) Commemoration of His Divine Majesty
    (63) I have taken possession.

    Going back, the writer wanted Mr. Morriss to speak to the group of people he gave an aliases, especially John..

    Of their
    (11)Success, that our Lord(Alias like a boss/leader which I think might be James Jopling) has given me
    (83)Island I discovered - Island means a lot in the message, including Hill, treasure, dollars but in this case it was meant as Land
    (1629) With the mainland on this side - Mainland refers to the Harkening Hill, as to why, we will get there..
    (48) me where I = Where I
    (94) Commemoration of His Divine Majesty - The word commemoration was used here as if "Settled" or "Build a home", the alias given to Divine Majesty has a reference to the name of Isabella(Spanish) Elizabeth(English). With this, number(94) will be. "Settled, Of Elizabeth" this is as if Elizabeth owned the home they settled. In the message it was also said the he purchased this from Elizabeth. Could it be originally Thomas Wood's Cabin?
    (63) I have taken possession - This means I owned/ I purchased or I lived.

    All of these numbers combined will be.

    "Success, that our Leader(or captain?) has given me a land, I discovered with the mainland on this side where I settled(owned by Elizabeth/Originally Thomas Wood) - I purchased/owned/lived(note: that the word posession was used differently on both page 1 and 3).

    ---
    Speak to the group of people that the Illustrious King and Queen our Sovereign gave me, and John is the name of the Noble of our success. That our (Lord/Captain) has given me a land, I (discovered/learned) that the mainland on this side is where I settled, owned by Elizabeth I have (purchased/owned/lived).

    Shortcut: Consider Illustrious King as John, Queen as (Elizabeth/Mary) Sovereign as (Beale Party). It will take time until we get to page three. I will just say what I know word by word, this does not necessarily mean that I am correct.

  6. #66
    ph
    May 2020
    748
    270 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Here is the first paragraph. I modified what I posted here first because I used an excel vlookup to doublecheck. It turns out that I miscounted a very few numbers.
    This week I will be focusing on this paragraph...

    Proclamation to the people, fleet that the Illustrious King and Queen our Sovereigns gave me, and a boat with a master seaman, name of Royal Standard success. That our Lord has given me Island, I discovered with the mainland on this side me where I Commemoration, of his Divine Majesty - I have taken possession. To each one I gave, a new name given. Me in my voyage second, I named the island of Santa Maria, of His Divine Majesty. I discovered, I gave the name, and three castellanos of pure gold Lord has given the Illustrious king, and Queen have taken possession how in thirty- the name. When I came to see some great cities, I have taken possession for their highness by proclamation, of San Salvador. They are most ingenious men at the glorious success that our Lord has given me in my voyage. Know Isabella, all the isles of India, the Illustrious King of our men arrive.

    For now notice how he used the words (new name given) (Voyage Second)(Thirty- the name) and the ending sentence(Know Isabela -> men arrive)

    This is not only the coincidences that was in both page 1 and 3, all of the numbers are linked, this is why a computer revealed that there is no grammatically correct message(There is none). Yet we insist that there is because we all based from the page 2 in the Beale papers. We have already convinced our minds to have a similar method and answer like page 2.
    Last edited by jhonnz41; Feb 20, 2021 at 10:53 PM.

  7. #67

    Jun 2007
    23,352
    15729 times
    Quote Originally Posted by jhonnz41 View Post
    Here is the first paragraph. I modified what I posted here first because I used an excel vlookup to doublecheck. It turns out that I miscounted a very few numbers.
    This week I will be focusing on this paragraph...

    Proclamation to the people, fleet that the Illustrious King and Queen our Sovereigns gave me, and a boat with a master seaman, name of Royal Standard success. That our Lord has given me Island, I discovered with the mainland on this side me where I Commemoration, of his Divine Majesty - I have taken possession. To each one I gave, a new name given. Me in my voyage second, I named the island of Santa Maria, of His Divine Majesty. I discovered, I gave the name, and three castellanos of pure gold Lord has given the Illustrious king, and Queen have taken possession how in thirty- the name. When I came to see some great cities, I have taken possession for their highness by proclamation, of San Salvador. They are most ingenious men at the glorious success that our Lord has given me in my voyage. Know Isabella, all the isles of India, the Illustrious King of our men arrive.

    For now notice how he used the words (new name given) (Voyage Second)(Thirty- the name) and the ending sentence(Know Isabela -> men arrive)

    This is not only the coincidences that was in both page 1 and 3, all of the numbers are linked, this is why a computer revealed that there is no grammatically correct message(There is none). Yet we insist that there is because we all based from the page 2 in the Beale papers. We have already convinced our minds to have a similar method and answer like page 2.
    "MODIFIED"...? LOL!

  8. #68
    ph
    May 2020
    748
    270 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    "MODIFIED"...? LOL!
    Yes..."Modified" look closely at my first post..Its wrong...

    I said "Our sovereign" Instead of "me where I". I should have just relied on excel from the start...Its a mistake...
    In my Voyage I discovered, at the end of many leagues that nothing new appeared, ashore to some. And great success that our Lord has given, and of all arrive.

  9. #69
    ph
    May 2020
    748
    270 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Don't worry sir Rebel.. I will admit my mistakes and changes along the way.. Also if there is new data, I am very open to changes.
    I don't want to be bias and will defend until the end that what I posted is right or accurate. There will be errors that we should fix along the way.

    I don't want to spend 20 years on solving this like Ward did. I wanted this to be an open research. Anyone can suggest or correct those errors. So feel free to speak up if you notice one.
    In my Voyage I discovered, at the end of many leagues that nothing new appeared, ashore to some. And great success that our Lord has given, and of all arrive.

  10. #70
    ph
    May 2020
    748
    270 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Moving forward...

    (132) to each one I gave a new name
    (16) given me in my voyage
    (111) second I named the island of Santa Maria
    (95) of His Divine Majesty

    number 132 means that "To each one", this refers to "Illustrious King and Queen" and the locals which I believe to be the Indians in an area northwest of the Sharp Top Mountain. the words "I gave a new name" means that he gave a new alias to the people there namely John, Mary and Elizabeth. Juan/Juana, Maria and Isabella (John = Illustrious King, Mary = Maria or Royal Majesty, Elizabeth = Divine Majesty/(owner or name of)San Salvador) which he mentioned that their names are written in Spanish in page 1..

    Number 16. The first word given is a word that verifies that he gave a new name to the people there.. This followed by the line "Me in my Voyage" as if "In my Journey"

    Number 111. Second - This is one of the interesting swapping of words, We need to swap this with the word Voyage thus the sentence will be. Me in my SECOND VOYAGE. I named the island(Place/Land) of Santa Maria.. (Notice how he likes the word Santa, Saint Louis, Santa Fe). There is a few word swapping in the message, and example is the words "Of Spun Cotton" which is "Spun of Cotton", another is the line "Not with know my voyage" which is "Not know with my voyage". We will get this part in page 1.

    This followed by number 95, Which is of His Divine Majesty...Consider this as "WHERE" Divine Majesty lives.. or where Isabella/Elizabeth Lives.

    All of this will be converted into the following.

    To each one I gave a new names or aliases. Me in my second Journey I named the place as Santa Maria. It is where his Divine Majesty Lives.

    But why second Journey? Why not first? The reason behind this (possibly) is that the party originally wanted the Harkening Hill as the place that they will bury their treasure. But when they went there to bury it, they found out that that there is a new settlement, the northern tribes, thus decided to look for another area. Where they found the Johnson-Dooley farm. Located West from Harkening Hill via Sheep Creek road.. Further research base on description reveals that Santa Maria was located East from the where they buried the treasure. described it as "Few small settlements where it was impossible to speak to the eastward".

    Below is only a few coincidences that I plotted based on descriptions given. According to page 1 and 3, it was as If Elizabeth is governing a specific group of Indians(Cherokee?), In page 3 she was given a description of "Indies Queen" Where he said that he gave things to them, lost one third of the Gold as purchase of the Harkening Hill.

    Are the Wood's family Indian friendly that they let them have lands there?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Santa Maria.png 
Views:	9 
Size:	3.65 MB 
ID:	1903990.

    Note that this is open for changes once additional data is added
    Last edited by jhonnz41; Feb 21, 2021 at 08:46 AM.
    In my Voyage I discovered, at the end of many leagues that nothing new appeared, ashore to some. And great success that our Lord has given, and of all arrive.

  11. #71
    ph
    May 2020
    748
    270 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    All combined will now be.

    Speak to the group of people that the Illustrious King and Queen our Party gave me, and John is the name of the Noble, of our success. That our Captain has given me a land, I discovered that the mainland on this side is where I settled, owned by Elizabeth I have (purchased/owned/lived(help me choose which is which). To each one I gave a new names or aliases. Me in my second Journey I named the place as Santa Maria. It is where his Divine Majesty Lives.
    Last edited by jhonnz41; Feb 21, 2021 at 09:08 AM.
    In my Voyage I discovered, at the end of many leagues that nothing new appeared, ashore to some. And great success that our Lord has given, and of all arrive.

  12. #72
    ph
    May 2020
    748
    270 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Do you think that the words..

    Of his Divine Majesty I have taken(End line) Possession to each one I gave (End line) a new name given(End line)

    It was as if "Possession" was linked to the line "To each one I gave"...I am confused at this, as if Possession might also mean Shares. This could mean He gave Shares and New names that could also be found in page 1 and 3, the giving of One third of the Gold..
    In my Voyage I discovered, at the end of many leagues that nothing new appeared, ashore to some. And great success that our Lord has given, and of all arrive.

  13. #73

    Jun 2007
    23,352
    15729 times
    Other "nations" had "Hunting Grounds" in the area... Monacan, Saponi, Tutelo...
    Last edited by Rebel - KGC; Feb 21, 2021 at 09:22 AM.
    jhonnz41 likes this.

  14. #74

    Jun 2007
    23,352
    15729 times
    Naw... NO "Divine Majesty... NO Spanish; ONLY Native Americans, Americans, Brit, Scotch, Irish in the HISTORY of Bedford County, Va.
    jhonnz41 likes this.

  15. #75

    Jun 2007
    23,352
    15729 times
    BEST book about the PoO is by PV; PoO. My copy is in storage, & I knew PV, very well. We met & talked MANY times... before he "passed".

 

 
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