why nobody had seen this

jamesrav

Greenie
Sep 9, 2008
13
12
the Internet is an amazing thing, a real treasure available to all of us. I hadn't logged on this site for many years (at one time I was intrigued by the supposed Trinidad shipwreck in my neck of the woods) and decided to re-read the thread. One post seemed very familiar, and looking at the author it was indeed "me". 13 years ago, time flies. But enough digression. Another 'supposed' treasure is this topic, the Beale Ciphers. I was also intrigued by these, probably 20 years ago or more. I had a computer, I was good at programming ... voila, I would solve it :laughing7:

After reading as much as I could on the topic (but apparently not the Ward pamphlet itself), I spent some time writing programs and inputting various famous documents to attempt to decipher the location of the treasure. No success of course ; I re-doubled my effort to learn what others thought, hoping they might provide a clue. Instead, someone provided the jaw-dropping bombshell that quickly ended the endeavor. The poster at a forum noted that the three ciphers, although composed entirely of numbers, were not themselves numbered in any way. How did they arrive then at their infamous numbering of 1, 2, and 3? This is how, quoting Ward directly from his pamphlet:

"To systematize a plan for my work I arranged the papers in the order of their length, and numbered them, designing to commence with the first ..."

They were unnumbered. I repeat: They were unnumbered. Ward says it himself.

So then "by accident" Ward deciphers the code he himself designated as "Number 2", and in which the plaintext mentions paper 1 and paper 3. Yet previously they had no numbers distinguishing them - Ward gave them those designations based on length. Why should Number 2 explicitly reference paper 1 and paper 3 when they had no numbers on them to begin with? Why not (in the plaintext) say "the paper beginning with 71" when referring to the shortest cipher? Or simply refer to the 'shortest cipher' ? Either of those descriptions would make complete sense and require no 'labeling' of the ciphers.

What a colossal blunder by Ward. Yet nobody ever caught it other than the poster. I can only gather that everyone who spent years trying to decipher these codes either: never read the original pamphlet, or, did not 'put 2 and 2 together' (as the saying goes) after reading what Ward wrote.
___________

Beyond that (not that anything more is needed), looking at this once again shows how ridiculously obvious that it was a hoax by Ward. He practically begs people who purchase his pamphlet not to spend much (if any) time on this. He knew it would be wasted time, and Ward does not seem like a sociopath (someone with no empathy) based on his writings. He often mentions how Morriss and others generously helped the poor (and his story that Morriss allowed someone to live as an honored guest in his hotel for years without requiring any payment whatsoever seems a bit over-the-top). The pamphlet was meant to provide entertainment for the buyer, perhaps a few hours trying various famous documents, and then tossed in the trash. No harm done. Although he was very wrong on that, he did provide the warning. Perhaps that was his way to absolve himself from any guilt, in effect he could say to someone who wasted years on this: "I explicitly told you not to do that". A weak confession, but pretty clear in hindsight.

 

jhonnz41

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May 4, 2020
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The numbering is very confusing. I personally think that the number 3 as we know of is not the number 3(names and residences of the party). In my little research it was the Wood's family(First settlers) in the Peaks of Otter, and how to solve the missing page which I believe to be the real number 3 that was left in Mary Polly Dooley's possession.

Can you try a program using the first Voyage(As I know you will be rejoiced version)? the problem with this is that it was arbitrary, we don't exactly know how many word/words to get in each number. Many people will ignore it because it was like a pattern of randomness. I don't know how to explain it, seems like a cipher that was not meant to be solved at all.
 

Swaveab

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jamesrav, I'm not following this stuff and am not trying to decipher anything, but if somebody references the other 2 pages then the page doing the referencing is actually the last page or page 3. Makes sense?
 

ECS

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Mar 26, 2012
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Jamesray, according to the story narrative, it was the "unknown author" that arranged the order by length and solved B2 with the DOI, and chose Ward as his "agent" for publishing the job print pamphlet.
 

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jamesrav

Greenie
Sep 9, 2008
13
12
absolutely correct, my error. The 'intermediary' un-named friend is of course a ruse, but I should have been more careful regarding that issue. But the problem I raise is then merely moved 'back' one person, but does not change the main theme of my argument. Why did the un-named friend number them 1, 2, 3, and isn't it an amazing coincidence that the (hitherto un-numbered) #2 references 1 and 3 by their newly assigned numbers ? Ward (in order to create an intriguing treasure hunt) had a labeling problem - the two remaining ciphers needed to be referred to somehow, and what better way than by a number (since numbers were clearly in his head due to the cipher contents themselves). But why he didn't alter the 'friends' story just a bit to state that they were pre-numbered 1,2,3 is an incredible oversight.

Regarding the plea by the 'friend' to not spend much if any time on this, that certainly is not the way to generate interest. But for a guilty conscience, it's at least a case of "be forewarned".

[FONT=&quot] It is, to devote only such time as can be spared from your legitimate business to the task, and if you can spare no time, let the matter alone. Should you disregard my advice, do not hold me responsible that the poverty you have courted is [/FONT][FONT=&quot] ...

[/FONT]
 

releventchair

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May 9, 2012
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Why would it matter a page number other than for Ward to refer to a particular page vs the others? If a given page is numbered (not page numbered) creating encryption , it is encryption still. Two pages of encryption are still encryption. Numbering them by page simply references a particular sheet for Ward to reference.

And "by length" could refer to the length of a page itself. The raw unwritten on paper's dimensions type length. Not saying that was Wards intention. IF it even was Ward.
 

bigscoop

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There are a number of creative flaws in the narration that render the whole of its details and it's proposal extremely unlikely.
 

ECS

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Why would it matter a page number other than for Ward to refer to a particular page vs the others? If a given page is numbered (not page numbered) creating encryption , it is encryption still. Two pages of encryption are still encryption. Numbering them by page simply references a particular sheet for Ward to reference.

And "by length" could refer to the length of a page itself. The raw unwritten on paper's dimensions type length. Not saying that was Wards intention. IF it even was Ward.
According to the narrative text, James Beverly Ward was given a complete handwritten manuscript by the "unnamed author" to act as copyright and publishing agent.
After the Beale Papers pamphlet was printed at the Virginia Print Shop, what became of this original handwritten manuscript?
 

releventchair

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May 9, 2012
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According to the narrative text, James Beverly Ward was given a complete handwritten manuscript by the "unnamed author" to act as copyright and publishing agent.
After the Beale Papers pamphlet was printed at the Virginia Print Shop, what became of this original handwritten manuscript?

I can only focus on one shell game at a time! l.o.l..
 

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jamesrav

Greenie
Sep 9, 2008
13
12
they were originally un-numbered, not labelled in any way at all. Nothing to distinguish one from another. The 'friend', in order to identify them, numbered them himself 1,2,3. Innocent enough.

But then he deciphers #2. Fantastic! But amazingly enough, the freshly labeled #2 references #1 and #3 by number. But they had no numbers originally. The 'friend' gave them the numbers 1,2,3. The question is: why didn't he perhaps label them A, B, C or S M L (short medium long) or I II III ? And the bigger question is, if Beale knew he was going to refer to the other ciphers in the one deciphered by the DOI, he would therefore have to label the 3 sheets in advance. He did not do that ; the 'friend' openly admits he did the numbering to get things rolling. If the 'friend' had said the 3 pages were pre-numbered, there would be no problem at all. That would in fact make total sense. It's incredible he did not think that thru. The question I have (unless my logic is just missing something very simple) is why did all the following computer experts, code breakers, etc, not see that oversight?

REGARDING THE ORIGINALS: weren't they mysteriously destroyed in a fire? I think that's the legend Ward concocted.
 

bigscoop

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they were originally un-numbered, not labelled in any way at all. Nothing to distinguish one from another. The 'friend', in order to identify them, numbered them himself 1,2,3. Innocent enough.

But then he deciphers #2. Fantastic! But amazingly enough, the freshly labeled #2 references #1 and #3 by number. But they had no numbers originally. The 'friend' gave them the numbers 1,2,3. The question is: why didn't he perhaps label them A, B, C or S M L (short medium long) or I II III ? And the bigger question is, if Beale knew he was going to refer to the other ciphers in the one deciphered by the DOI, he would therefore have to label the 3 sheets in advance. He did not do that ; the 'friend' openly admits he did the numbering to get things rolling. If the 'friend' had said the 3 pages were pre-numbered, there would be no problem at all. That would in fact make total sense. It's incredible he did not think that thru. The question I have (unless my logic is just missing something very simple) is why did all the following computer experts, code breakers, etc, not see that oversight?

REGARDING THE ORIGINALS: weren't they mysteriously destroyed in a fire? I think that's the legend Ward concocted.

The topic of the cipher numbering issue, or absence of, is an old issue that's been discussed for years. This isn't a new revelation.
 

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jamesrav

Greenie
Sep 9, 2008
13
12
I figured as much, and I first read about it somewhere (maybe here) probably 20 years ago. I wasn't sure how best to search the threads here, maybe I'll try 'absence of numbering'. If you know which thread(s) cover this I'd be appreciative. I recall how stunned I was when the fellow pointed it out, it really does seem like the proverbial 'smoking gun' that instantly destroys the whole idea of it being a real treasure to be found. I know when the computer guy found the 'abcd ...' string, that pretty much ended it for the computer people, but how it even got to that point given the numbering blunder is something I wanted to learn more about. But in retrospect, there are so many huge plot holes in this (the 'friend', the originals being lost/burned to name a couple), it says something about our willingness to suspend common sense when the potential for 'treasure' is mentioned. In many ways the J.J. Markey character (regarding the Trinidad shipwreck) is no different than Ward, a well-spoken individual who was given the benefit of the doubt due to his apparent intellect. If nothing else, Ward did spin a good tale and had the 'gift of gab'.
______

i see you had mentioned this in another thread. I wonder when it was first noted, meaning in the 60's or 70's when it was probably at its peak due to the potential for a computer solution.

"So how could he have possibly numbered them accurately beforehand? "Hook, line, and sinker".....
__________

this seems to be one of the earliest mentions of the numbering issue. However, he doesn't mention the fact they were not numbered at all until the 'friend' did so to get things started, and yet #2 mentions #1 and #3. He also says that Ward numbered them, so like me he got that wrong - the intermediary friend idea, like Rodney Dangerfield, doesn't seem to 'get no respect' . Given that Ward was apparently in some financial distress (brave to mention that), that he was selling a pamphlet for the equivalent cost of $13 in today's money should have been another red flag.

https://www.angelfire.com/pro/bealeciphers/Graphics/Bamboozlement1.pdf
___________

down the rabbit hole I go :icon_scratch: so now I see after reading the pamphlet S L O W L Y, that there was no
un-named intermediary. Ward is simply referring to himself in the 3rd person at times, and at other times reverts back to 1st person. Confusing. Maybe a common style back then, but it leads one to think there's "a writer" involved who is not Ward. There is mention of "one old and valued friend, upon whose discretion he (Ward) could rely", but that's not a statement that the friend was involved in any way. So Ward himself numbered them and solved #2, and tragically spent years getting nowhere. A good way to drum up pity, especially since he did not spend years toiling on this :laughing7:. A good question might be how long it took to concoct this - a week, 3 days, a month off and on? Sounds like he needed money, and that's a good motivator to work fast. Could explain the sloppiness in encoding #2, and putting in the "abcd..." string out of boredom.
 

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franklin

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Jun 1, 2012
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If you worked on trying to break Cipher Code Paper #1 and you ran up on the two or three "alphabet strings" that was a dead give away to STOP that the whole story was made up. There is no way you could use one document such as the Declaration of Independence and come up with a double message about "Treasure" in one and the "Alphabet Strings" in another. You would need two documents but making one come out with almost perfect alphabet strings would be virtually impossible. Proves the story is a fake.
 

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jamesrav

Greenie
Sep 9, 2008
13
12
so were the alphabet strings as easy to come by as was the plaintext for # 2? I know the computer guy found them, but was it by the exact same method as for # 2? If so, then this may have been Ward's way to tell a purchaser "this is a hoax" and stop wasting precious time on it. Ward makes very clear that only limited time (or none) should be put forth - he had a guilty conscience. If he put in the alphabet strings on purpose (rather than due to boredom), then he was trying to be helpful. And back then, no way to complain on social media about a fraud, hoax, bamboozlement. The existence of Ward is barely known anyway, not like you could track him down and say "I want my fifty cents back". It's intriguing to wonder if the numbering omission was on purpose as well, or whether it was a blunder. If they were pre-numbered the story becomes viable.

[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]" .. when accident revealed to him". Two things about this line: first, it was hardly an "accident", he indicates he put in considerable effort, testing various important documents. That was studious effort, perhaps combined with some luck, but I certainly wouldn't use the word accident. The 2nd thing: referring to himself as "him" rather than "me". I think he wanted to put some psychological 'distance' between himself and the whole affair. It wasn't 'he himself' who solved it, but an alter-ego. This would almost be like people who commit crimes based on 'voices in their head' or what not. It was me, but it wasn't me. [/FONT]
 

Rebel - KGC

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Jun 15, 2007
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Why would it matter a page number other than for Ward to refer to a particular page vs the others? If a given page is numbered (not page numbered) creating encryption , it is encryption still. Two pages of encryption are still encryption. Numbering them by page simply references a particular sheet for Ward to reference.

And "by length" could refer to the length of a page itself. The raw unwritten on paper's dimensions type length. Not saying that was Wards intention. IF it even was Ward.
NOT Ward; J. W. Sherman, Sub-Editor/writer for Lynchburg, Va. DAILY NEWS; Editor Charlie Button said so in several written "sources".
 

Ironwill

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Jul 2, 2013
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James, ignore the negative people. I appreciate your "digging" into all the available information to find that. Those people striking you down don't realize the time when they posted some revelation that was already discovered...they just want to beat you and your discovery down. Never let that happen.
 

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jamesrav

Greenie
Sep 9, 2008
13
12
with hindsight, this 'treasure' was rather ridiculous to consider as being potentially real. I think the computer people were intrigued just due to the challenge, and apparently the use of computers to solve ciphers has really improved in the interim (was very recent news of the Zodiak Killer de-cipher due to a great effort among several computer people). But Beale did not pass a sanity check really. Ward was eloquent and wove a good tale, but it was too over-the-top. In reading how Beale was described as the "handsomest man he'd ever seen" and how if challenged on anything, he (Beale) would "always receive an apology". Ward was making him into a demi-god, certainly a good idea when he's your main source for the treasure, and very common in FICTION.

a personal anecdote on this: probably 40 years ago I was working for my dad's tech company, doing low level stuff (no programming experience yet). He had at least two very highly paid programmers on staff, one of which was quite ... eccentric. He was about 300 pounds, hadn't had a haircut in 10 years, walked around in flip flops, rarely bathed, had a voice squeekier than Mike Tysons, and liked to camp out in a nearby park. But a genius machine-language programmer, which is what was required (sidebar: rumor had it that the park rangers were once called to investigate a 'Bigfoot' sighting, and sure enough it was this guy). He rarely came out of his office to speak with anyone. At the time I was very intrigued by Beale, and even spent some company time using one of the computers to try my hand at it. Word got around the workplace about that ; and to my surprise the guy comes out of his office, walks up to me and says in his high pitched voice "I investigated the Beale ciphers and determined it was a hoax ", turned around , and left. Whether he actually tried to decipher them or just could see through the charade, I never found out.
 

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bigscoop

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James, ignore the negative people. I appreciate your "digging" into all the available information to find that. Those people striking you down don't realize the time when they posted some revelation that was already discovered...they just want to beat you and your discovery down. Never let that happen.

We've all been "beat down" at some point by people who have more experience/history/knowledge then we do, some of us just don't view it as a "beat-down" or continue to change user identities thinking we are fooling everyone......:laughing7:
 

bigscoop

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with hindsight, this 'treasure' was rather ridiculous to consider as being potentially real. I think the computer people were intrigued just due to the challenge, and apparently the use of computers to solve ciphers has really improved in the interim (was very recent news of the Zodiak Killer de-cipher due to a great effort among several computer people). But Beale did not pass a sanity check really. Ward was eloquent and wove a good tale, but it was too over-the-top. In reading how Beale was described as the "handsomest man he'd ever seen" and how if challenged on anything, he (Beale) would "always receive an apology". Ward was making him into a demi-god, certainly a good idea when he's your main source for the treasure, and very common in FICTION.

a personal anecdote on this: probably 40 years ago I was working for my dad's tech company, doing low level stuff (no programming experience yet). He had at least two very highly paid programmers on staff, one of which was quite ... eccentric. He was about 300 pounds, hadn't had a haircut in 10 years, walked around in flip flops, rarely bathed, had a voice squeekier than Mike Tysons, and liked to camp out in a nearby park. But a genius machine-language programmer, which is what was required (sidebar: rumor had it that the park rangers were once called to investigate a 'Bigfoot' sighting, and sure enough it was this guy). He rarely came out of his office to speak with anyone. At the time I was very intrigued by Beale, and even spent some company time using one of the computers to try my hand at it. Word got around the workplace about that ; and to my surprise the guy comes out of his office, walks up to me and says in his high pitched voice "I investigated the Beale ciphers and determined it was a hoax ", turned around , and left. Whether he actually tried to decipher them or just could see through the charade, I never found out.

There are several very strong indicators that render the story to be highly questionable, at best. And we also know for certain now that some of the details in the narration were highly inaccurate for the times, etc. And you are correct when you single out the author's description of Beale and his character, almost as if detailing an alter-ego.
 

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