1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

[ivan salis]

Re: One unusual relic today - mid 1800's photo possibly

please don't get too creeped out by what I have to say --you said their was a shallow depression in the near by ground? --- you might have found a "grave" photo --- from a family "homestead" type grave plot --- often folks put photographs of their loved ones in a frame to "see" them when they went to visit their grave -- today some folks have special head stones with photos enclosed in them or likeness of the dead "lazer" carved into the stone --some even have "interactive" type devices that play a breif -- "tape" of the persons "life' ---so things and people don't change --just they techo stuff of how they do it.

several "tin type" photographs of the dead are in my very old family photo book -- it was common back then to "dress up" the dead and have their photo taken and put it in the family "photo' album --to "remember them" by and so to be able to show others years later what they "looked" like -- morbid by todays standards --but times were differant back then.

 

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[Don in SJ]

Re: One unusual relic today - mid 1800's photo possibly

LOL, I'm 100% sure not a grave site, the depression(round, not rectangle shaped ) nearby was a good 15 feet away at least and an old overgrown path/road in-between where I found it. The iron hits were numerous like a typcial homestead or work area in this part of the state.
Since my hunt that day was more exploratory than settling down to hit one site hard, I will return eventually and spend more time at that spot and see if anything else is recovered.

Don

 

[Moonshadow]

Re: One unusual relic today - mid 1800's photo possibly

I love it! Looks very ghostly......What a cool find! Congrats Don!

HH,
Moon

 

[SgtSki in MI]

Re: One unusual relic today - mid 1800's photo possibly

Very weird find in that there's still detail present. I'm pretty sure that it is indeed an ambrotype, If I remember my past readings about photography. I think there'd be nothing left but a rust stain if it were a Daguerrotype or tintype.

Verrrrrrry Interesting! (to parahrase Artie Johnson)

WTG,
SgtSki

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: One unusual relic today - mid 1800's photo possibly

Very weird find in that there's still detail present. I'm pretty sure that it is indeed an ambrotype, If I remember my past readings about photography. I think there'd be nothing left but a rust stain if it were a Daguerrotype or tintype.

Verrrrrrry Interesting! (to parahrase Artie Johnson)

WTG,
SgtSki

Ski, I agree, that if a tintype it most likely would have been all rusted out. There is no rust, just the blue spots of copper corrosion. If I could bend one tab in the back and slide out the portrait, I know cleaning the back side of the glass cover would help a lot in seeing the photograph more clearly but fear the copper tab would crack. But, it might be worth it to see the photo better. I think I will mull this one over for a bit. Open for suggestions, other than leaving it alone, which I might do, but darn, it sure would be nice to see if a clearer picture emerges if the glass on top was cleaned.

Update: There is a possibility this might be a Daguerreotype, which would be maybe even pre Civil War, since the back plate is copper, and when i first found it I said I thought it was a mirror, the more I read on Daguerreotypes, the more I believe it is one and not a glass type photograph known as the Ambrotype. The Daguerreotype was a piece of copper which was silver plated and the photograph was on that silver plating which was then enclosed behind glass in a frame. Seems to match the appearance of mine. Without an expert in the field commenting, this is all logical guesswork on my part and I am trying to find someone well versed in the old photographs to say what type it is and if it can be conserved.

Don

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: One unusual relic today - 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait

I was in contact this afternoon with Princeton University concerning the type of photograph and whether it could be successfully conserved. I got a confirmation on the type and was given three points of contact to have the photograph evaluated and whether it could be conserved or not, of course at a price.

I found a great website from Princeton University that shows conservation before and after photos and when I saw some very similar to mine I was pleasantly surprised and now have hope that it is possible to restore this photo. Check out this webisite and look at the portrait photos and then look at the after conserving photos and the difference is amazing. Sure would be nice if mine could be saved like that.

http://infoshare1.princeton.edu/libraries/firestone/rbsc/mudd/online_ex/dags/conserve/electro.shtml

Don

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

Re: One unusual relic today - 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait

One of the more interesting relics I have ever seen dug Don, congrats on a great find!

 

[Ken from Atlanta]

Re: One unusual relic today - 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait

Those cleaned photos were amazing, how big of a fee are they talking? I think I'd just about have to get it restored if I had found it.

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: One unusual relic today - 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait

Those cleaned photos were amazing, how big of a fee are they talking? I think I'd just about have to get it restored if I had found it.

LOL, I just got an estimate and I would not even consider it at the price given....Trust me when I say, I could buy a very good new metal detector for the estimate. Hoping to get some more information from two others and then decided to leave it as is or become a conservator.

Don

 

[Southern_Boy]

Re: One unusual relic today - 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait

Nice find there...could see anything but congratz on what you did find.

 

[vic910]

Re: One unusual relic today - 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait

Absolutely cool find! I think the area that you marked as possibly being a beard is actually the neck area.

vicki

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Re: One unusual relic today - 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait

Absolutely fabulous post, Don! It is a shame it is so expensive to have it restored. Do you know who occupied the homestead in the mid 19th century?

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: One unusual relic today - 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait

Absolutely fabulous post, Don! It is a shame it is so expensive to have it restored. Do you know who occupied the homestead in the mid 19th century?

Neil, no idea, it does not show on any maps and I am still not certain it is a homestead, could be just a work area or a short time lived area. It is a two mile walk to the site, so I do not plan on getting back there till sometime next week weather permitting.

Don

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Since the prices given for restoration by a professional was beyond financial reason in my opinion, maybe if it was my ggggrandfather I might have considered it, but a challenge lies before me now.

I carefully opened up the portrait this morning, I have had a few emails from Princeton Univ and Boston that the portrait may not be a Daguerreotype but a relatively uncommon type, so the not knowing was killing my curiosity and since I am not too afraid of trying to restore and conserve other artifacts I decided to go ahead and at minimum, open it up and clean the glass off.

Well, to my delight, upon opening I can confirm in my mind that it is a Daguerreotype photo from the 1840-1850's. The photograph IS on a silvered copper sheet. The conservator from Boston thought perhaps it was on a paper of some type but it is not.

Now, the photo is much clearer, just being freed from the glass, which by the way is rather thick, 25mm or a tad more than a tenth of an inch.

I am currently soaking the glass in warm distilled water and will at minimum have that as clean and clear as possible. Now I have to figure out how to clean and the blue copper salts on the copper frame insert and then the biggie, do I want to try the Princeton method of electrolysis on the photo plate itself. The corrosion needs to be stopped somehow and conserving it is the only way.

The Electrolysis they used was household Ammonia and distilled water with a piece of silver in the solution under low voltage. I have to mull this over a bit. But regardless, I will go ahead and do something to preserve this piece of history and do my best not to destroy it.

For those who could not see the figure before (Hi Jim) I think now it is quite visible.
This is one of the neatest relics I have found!

Don

 

[Pocket Treys]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Now that is what i am talking about Don....We talked about this in chat a couple of days ago.

Look like you have a real nice find, and I am glad that everything worked out for you when you pulled it out of the frame.

 

[The Seeker]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Now that is the nicest picture frame that I have seen found . Finding something with the picture still intact is almost impossible with the forces of nature working against you. That is a great find , clean the baby up and maybe fit one of your old pics laying around the house in it. This locket I found in the fall had this old pic in it amazingly it is still intact...............WTG

John

 

[johnreb1980]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

Don that is to cool,keep us updated on it. You are doing good work on it.

 

[pinebarrens1]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

DON . BEING THAT SOME PEOPLE IN THOSE DAY WERE SO POOR . AND PEOPLE LIVING AND WORKING IN THE PINES EVEN POORER ......YOU MIGHT HAVE A GREAT SITE THERE . COULD HAVE BEEN A RICH AREA . OR A GUY HORSE RIDING LOST IT OR PINE ROBBER HIDE OUT . THIS WOODS HOLD SO MANY SECRETS . WHERE THERE ANY OLD BLACK WALNUT TREES NEAR BUY ............ALFONSO

 

[lostcauses]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

interesting thread.
Note the electrolysis of such for cleaning most likely would be in a temperature controlled bath. Other baths after it would allow the fixing of the cleaning and would used other chemicals to do so.

The coper salts afixed to it present there own problem and may need to be dealt with prior to electrolysis. Some were out there should be a book with the procedures to do this. May have to take the time to see if I can find one. Short of that check classes at a universitys
and see if you can find a student studying such looking for a project.

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED

DON . BEING THAT SOME PEOPLE IN THOSE DAY WERE SO POOR . AND PEOPLE LIVING AND WORKING IN THE PINES EVEN POORER ......YOU MIGHT HAVE A GREAT SITE THERE . COULD HAVE BEEN A RICH AREA . OR A GUY HORSE RIDING LOST IT OR PINE ROBBER HIDE OUT . THIS WOODS HOLD SO MANY SECRETS . WHERE THERE ANY OLD BLACK WALNUT TREES NEAR BUY ............ALFONSO

I went back there yesterday and not one diggable reading at this site, I believe it was a work area for the old homestead about two blocks away where I found the items I posted yesterday..
This type of photograph was not usually done by poor people, I was told that they cost over $5 in the 1840-50's and that was almost equal to a weeks wages back then. The Ambrotypes which started to become popular during the Civil War, which were photogrpahs on glass, were much more affordable and cost only pennies by comparison.

Don