1800's Snuff Jar

[NCprivyDigger]

I was given this jar a few years back by the owner of some land I was dump digging on. My researched says it's a Snuff Jar from Mid 1800. Can anyone give a more accurate date? Not sure what is in the jar. Appears to be molasses, syrup or honey. Very thick and has sugar crystals forming on the glass where I have rolled the liquid around looking at it. Even responds like molasses, when it's cold it's very thick and slow moving. When it is warm it moves more freely. Don't won't to try opening it since it appears someone over tightened the lid. It has hung up on the tips of where the threads stop and there a stress chips showing on the glass lid.
Anyway, here is the story on how I came to own this piece. It was found it in a wall space we discovered while repairing a kitchen from a tree that had fallen on a house. This house had tongue and groove bead board walls and ceilings. Seems someone made a hiding spot in the wall by putting a few hidden hinges and a trick latch to open it. Eventually the person who made this must have passed on without telling anyone. Over the years it got painted over, then later had sheetrock put over it. The current home owner removed the sheet rock shortly after buying it to restore the beautiful wood walls, ceilings and floors. But had never discovered the hiding spot until it was damaged from the tree falling in on it. Man was it ever hidden well. I got to see it first hand since I was helpping the home owner repair the house in exchange for digging on his property. The trick latch was 5' from the opening hidden by a wall board that would slide out of the way to reveal the trigger latch. As a bonus he let me keep 1 of the 6 identical jars that was in the hiding spot. He on the other hand kept the 5 other jars that were full of money (paper and coins, don't know what the value was), a few poison bottles.... one which was still sealed as new and a pistol of some sort that he wouldn't let me hold or see more than a minute. He was drooling hard over the gun, so he must have known something about guns or antiques. He stopped the repairs on the house and restricted me from any further digging. The property was fenced in and the house disappeared over a few months, alittle at a time. Looks like he got treasure fever with that find and stripped the house to the ground searching for more hidden treasures. I even heard he purchased a metal detector to search the property. But I never saw him again after he stopped me from digging and fenced in the property. Hope what ever he found was worth the money he spent in fencing in 15 acres with 6' high fencing and taking that beautiful house apart to the ground looking for more treasures. I on the other hand walked away with this Snuff Jar and a few Ball/Mason jars and milk bottles I found before being restricted from any further digging. I do need to make a trip back one day to see what has happened to the land..... this all happened 3 years ago. So maybe if he has sold the property I can get back to digging and hopefully find what he may have over looked and/or left behind.

Bill

[duffytrash]

thats kewl!! in the early 60s my grandma usta hide her snuff can...we all knew she rubbed but it was a no-no to even act like you knew...she used 3-thistles...that funny bout the home owner....

[72cheyenne]

NC, your jar is listed in the Redbook#10. It is either RB#1543 which is a 22oz. jar, or it is RB#1236 which is a 24oz. jar. They both were originally snuff jars that had a paper label stating that the jar could be reused for preserving fruits, pickles, etc.. With the patent date of July 16, 1872 (which is the patent for the closure http://www.google.com/patents/about?...y+16,+1872+jar ) your jar would have been made sometime after that. Patents were usually good for 15 years so I would date your jar in the 1872-1890 time frame.

It list the value of either jar at $25-30 and if it still had the paper label $40-50.

Nice jar.

[NCprivyDigger]

NC, your jar is listed in the Redbook#10. It is either RB#1543 which is a 22oz. jar, or it is RB#1236 which is a 24oz. jar. They both were originally snuff jars that had a paper label stating that the jar could be reused for preserving fruits, pickles, etc.. With the patent date of July 16, 1872 (which is the patent for the closure http://www.google.com/patents/about?...y+16,+1872+jar ) your jar would have been made sometime after that. Patents were usually good for 15 years so I would date your jar in the 1872-1890 time frame.

It list the value of either jar at $25-30 and if it still had the paper label $40-50.

Nice jar.

I saw an auction on eBay for a similar jar go for $80. The only differance was the glass lid had a different name listed on it, but the dates were still the same. And the jar on auction didn't have it's label either. I have found pics of just such jars with their labels intact. I'm curious to know what is in the jar, how to open it without any further damage to the already chipped lid and whether it is worth more empty or as it is (3/4 filled)? Would it be worth the risk to cause more damage to open it so as to empty it? The wire frame closure has been tightened to the point that it has reached the end of the threads and has hung up on the tip of the threads. See the pictures for better judgement call.

Bill

[72cheyenne]

NC, your jar is listed in the Redbook#10. It is either RB#1543 which is a 22oz. jar, or it is RB#1236 which is a 24oz. jar. They both were originally snuff jars that had a paper label stating that the jar could be reused for preserving fruits, pickles, etc.. With the patent date of July 16, 1872 (which is the patent for the closure http://www.google.com/patents/about?...y+16,+1872+jar ) your jar would have been made sometime after that. Patents were usually good for 15 years so I would date your jar in the 1872-1890 time frame.

It list the value of either jar at $25-30 and if it still had the paper label $40-50.

Nice jar.

I saw an auction on eBay for a similar jar go for $80. The only differance was the glass lid had a different name listed on it, but the dates were still the same. And the jar on auction didn't have it's label either. I have found pics of just such jars with their labels intact. I'm curious to know what is in the jar, how to open it without any further damage to the already chipped lid and whether it is worth more empty or as it is (3/4 filled)? Would it be worth the risk to cause more damage to open it so as to empty it? The wire frame closure has been tightened to the point that it has reached the end of the threads and has hung up on the tip of the threads. See the pictures for better judgement call.

Bill

Bill, I believe I would leave well enough alone. The closure on your jar makes up about 50-75% of the value. If you was to do something that either damaged or destroyed the closure, lid, or jar it would make you sick. You have a really neat and semi-rare jar with all the original parts still intact. In my opinion, I would leave it be.

[bottles10]

I would be very very carefull with that jar. No telling what may be in it. Hidden in that good a wall safe. It could be dangerous or deadly. Just saying.

[NCprivyDigger]

NC, your jar is listed in the Redbook#10. It is either RB#1543 which is a 22oz. jar, or it is RB#1236 which is a 24oz. jar. They both were originally snuff jars that had a paper label stating that the jar could be reused for preserving fruits, pickles, etc.. With the patent date of July 16, 1872 (which is the patent for the closure http://www.google.com/patents/about?...y+16,+1872+jar ) your jar would have been made sometime after that. Patents were usually good for 15 years so I would date your jar in the 1872-1890 time frame.

It list the value of either jar at $25-30 and if it still had the paper label $40-50.

Nice jar.

I saw an auction on eBay for a similar jar go for $80. The only differance was the glass lid had a different name listed on it, but the dates were still the same. And the jar on auction didn't have it's label either. I have found pics of just such jars with their labels intact. I'm curious to know what is in the jar, how to open it without any further damage to the already chipped lid and whether it is worth more empty or as it is (3/4 filled)? Would it be worth the risk to cause more damage to open it so as to empty it? The wire frame closure has been tightened to the point that it has reached the end of the threads and has hung up on the tip of the threads. See the pictures for better judgement call.

Bill

Bill, I believe I would leave well enough alone. The closure on your jar makes up about 50-75% of the value. If you was to do something that either damaged or destroyed the closure, lid, or jar it would make you sick. You have a really neat and semi-rare jar with all the original parts still intact. In my opinion, I would leave it be.

I do believe I will leave it as it is. It adds character to it and leaves a mystery to wonder about anyway.
Thank you, Bill

[NCprivyDigger]

I would be very very carefull with that jar. No telling what may be in it. Hidden in that good a wall safe. It could be dangerous or deadly. Just saying.

I have heard of people finding bottles and jars with fluids in them that turned out to be very dangerous. Like what they discovered near DC last week. While clearing land for housing they uncovered a militry dump from WW1 and found many sealed and broken bottles. Some of the bottles contained "Agent Orange" along with other deadly chemicals that shouldn't have even been dumped together.
So with that said I do believe I will leave my jar sealed. It adds to the character of the jar and leaves everyone the mystery wondering about it's contents. That and finding this jar with so much money, empty poison bottles and one full sealed poison bottle..... For all I know it is a bait that has been mixed with poison. Why else would it have been hidden if it weren't dangerous?

Bill

[vayank54]

The top has the name Geo. W. Helme. George Helme was in business with someone else. I think his brother until about 1878. In 1878 the company took the name of George Helme. The name on the bottom, Lorillard, is another tabacco company which is still in business. I could find no connections between these companies so am not sure why there are different names on the tops and bottom unless the top isn't orginal to the jar or one company subcontracted from the other. I don't know for sure though. It's a cool jar anyway.

[NCprivyDigger]

The top has the name Geo. W. Helme. George Helme was in business with someone else. I think his brother until about 1878. In 1878 the company took the name of George Helme. The name on the bottom, Lorillard, is another tabacco company which is still in business. I could find no connections between these companies so am not sure why there are different names on the tops and bottom unless the top isn't orginal to the jar or one company subcontracted from the other. I don't know for sure though. It's a cool jar anyway.

I have seen two different lids on this jar. And I have seen 20+ jars, 6 of the jars came out of the hiding spot I discribed in the first post with the same lid. So I am assuming that the lids were made for the P Lorillard Co. jars. That is the only reason I can explain the two different lids with different names but matching dates. Any other info on the reason for the different names on the lids and thier purpose would be great. I have hit a dead end in my searches.
Thank you,
Bill

[Harry Pristis]

It's pretty easy to find information about Helme's Railroad Mills Snuff. George W. died in 1893, and his son took the company public. No doubt, that's when P. Lorillard bought an interest in the company. Here's a link to help you with your search: http://www.jamesburg.net/snuffedout01.html

That means our jars post-date 1893 and could even be from the early twentieth century. I'm sure these handy jars were re-used for canning purposes. I think your jar is more likely to contain the remnants of long-abandoned green beans than to contain anything more dangerous or mysterious.

[Marty-Graw]

who would hide green beans?

[Road Dog]

These jars come with and without ground lips. I've seen them colored from straight amber to citrine.

[Harry Pristis]

who would hide green beans?

You're right, Marty . . . no one of sound mind would hide green beans. The jar is much more likely to contain the remnants of stewed tomatos.

[Marty-Graw]

lol