ATTENTION,SODABOTTLEBOB,Pictures of an applied top crown cap

[PikesPeakCharlie]

Bob was trying to find out if there are any crowncaps that date before 1895. I belevie this is the oldest crowncap I've found,I have 2 from this summer,also am pretty sure I have 2 more in storage,they are all the same color,and none are embossed .Not sure of the date but am guessing ,fairly old as it is an applied top. Bob hope this is useful to you. Anybody else ? any old crown caps,lets see them. HDing

[antlerman23]

here is an old round bottom bottle with an applied finish and crown top. i believe it dates to the mid to late 1890's. that green bottle you have there is a beauty! nice save! i hope this helps!

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

HDing ~

Interesting bottle. I call them "Foreign Long-neckers." Although I am far from being an expert on the subject, over the past couple of years I (with the help of numerous others) have done some extensive research on the history of crown-top soda bottles. A leading researcher in the field, Bill Lindsey, had the following to say regarding "applied" crown finishes ...

"Applied crown finishes are very, very uncommon, and mostly seen only on foreign or Asian bottles. The transition from applied finishes to tooled varies with the type of bottle one is dealing with. Crown finishes are always tooled on American made bottles in my experience."

So based on Bill's research, it suggest that your bottle is most likely of foreign origin that somehow ended up in an American dump, which is not an entirely uncommon occurance.

Below is a link to a very comprehensive article Bill Lindsey did regarding both tooled as well as applied finish bottles. Check it out.

By the way ... Bill Lindsey and his "Bottle Research Group" (B.R.G.) have accredited me for providing their nationwide organization of researchers with the earliest known crown, which was the 1895 Murdock & Freeman bottle I posted on your other thread. In fact, it was the B.R.G. who confirmed it for me.

SBB

Finishing Touch Link: http://www.sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/f...ucharticle.PDF

[PikesPeakCharlie]

here is an old round bottom bottle with an applied finish and crown top. i believe it dates to the mid to late 1890's. that green bottle you have there is a beauty! nice save! i hope this helps!

Thats a nice drippy applied crown cap you have there. Thanks for sharing

[PikesPeakCharlie]

HDing ~

Interesting bottle. I call them "Foreign Long-neckers." Although I am far from being an expert on the subject, over the past couple of years I (with the help of numerous others) have done some extensive research on the history of crown-top soda bottles. A leading researcher in the field, Bill Lindsey, had the following to say regarding "applied" crown finishes ...

"Applied crown finishes are very, very uncommon, and mostly seen only on foreign or Asian bottles. The transition from applied finishes to tooled varies with the type of bottle one is dealing with. Crown finishes are always tooled on American made bottles in my experience."

So based on Bill's research, it suggest that your bottle is most likely of foreign origin that somehow ended up in an American dump, which is not an entirely uncommon occurance.

Below is a link to a very comprehensive article Bill Lindsey did regarding both tooled as well as applied finish bottles. Check it out.

By the way ... Bill Lindsey and his "Bottle Research Group" (B.R.G.) have accredited me for providing their nationwide organization of researchers with the earliest known crown, which was the 1895 Murdock & Freeman bottle I posted on your other thread. In fact, it was the B.R.G. who confirmed it for me.

SBB

Finishing Touch Link: http://www.sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/f...ucharticle.PDF

Bob,Thanks for all the info !!!!!!! HDing PP

[PikesPeakCharlie]

Bob,thought you'd find this interesting .I went through the colorado book looking for old crown caps,and found these,they are the only crown caps from the state of Colorado in the book that date to 1895.They are from Pueblo Colo. PP (no copyright infringment intended)

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PPC ~

Thanks for the images of the Naylon & Simpson bottles. Very interesting. As you know, the "Ca." before the 1895-1899 stands for "Circa," which I run into all of the time, but are still good gauges for approximating various dates.

I did some research on both the S276 and the S278 bottles. In the lower left corner of each image it indicates the glass makers for each bottle. Here's what I found ...

S276 Bottle ... I.G.CO.

I.G.CO ... Illinois Glass Company, Alton, IL (1873-1929). This mark was used possibly as early as the mid-1870s to around 1900, embossed on both bases and heels of bottles, and was also used for several years after 1900 primarily on the lower heels of their soda bottles (since the base would frequently be reserved for the logo or initials of the bottling company a bottle was made for). Use of the mark on certain soda bottles is known to have extended at least to 1909, perhaps 1911.

S278 Bottle ... S.B. & G. CO.

S.B.& G.CO ... Streator Bottle & Glass Company, Streator, IL (1881-1905). The Streator plant eventually became part of the American Bottle Company, then later Owens Bottle Company, and finally part of the Owens Illinois Glass Co. (Plant #9).

I hope this information helps in your continuing research.

Thanks again.

Bob

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

PPC ~

Regarding the Murdock & Freeman bottle(s), the picture below helps to illustrate their transition in 1895 from non-crown closure to true-crown closure. Note that both bottles are dated 1895. (The Lightning-type stopper on the crown bottle may or may not be original. They were often used as an after market application).

Additionally, here is a little more information regarding early crown closures ...

{ Courtesy of Bill Lindsey }

Dating Notes: It appears that no crown finish bottles date prior to the 1892 patent date. In fact, virtually all crown finish (soda and beer) bottles date to after ca. 1894-1895, since in 1893 a national depression (the famous "Panic of 1893") made investment capital very scarce for several years deterring the use of new and expensive equipment like that needed to accommodate this new closure (Lief 1965). As an example of the progression in acceptance of this finish/closure style, the crown finish first shows up in the 1896 Illinois Glass Co. (IGCo) catalog with just one soda bottle offering. In 1899 the IGCo. offered several different crown soda bottles, by 1903 21 different soda bottle molds were listed with crown finishes (as well as other similar bottles available for beer), and 37 different molds listed by 1911 (IGCo. 1896, 1899, 1903, 1911).

SBB


[ 1895 Murdock & Freeman Transition Bottles ]

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

P.S. ~

On the Naylon & Simpson images I believe the term "Wiped Top" means "Tooled Finish." Most of the tooled finishes will have a "swirled flow" look in the surface of the glass and bubbles. And because most "Finishers" were right handed, most of those so called swirls tend to flow to the left, which is somewhat "similar" to what we see in the picture of the "Green Long-necker" at the beginning of this thread.

SBB

Here's what an antique crown finishing/lipping tool looked like - notice #16 - those long prongs at the end are what touched the bottle's neck and caused the swirl marks.

[PikesPeakCharlie]

P.S. ~

On the Naylon & Simpson images I believe the term "Wiped Top" means "Tooled Finish." Most of the tooled finishes will have a "swirled flow" look in the surface of the glass and bubbles. And because most "Finishers" were right handed, most of those so called swirls tend to flow to the left, which is somewhat "similar" to what we see in the picture of the "Green Long-necker" at the beginning of this thread.

SBB

Here's what an antique crown finishing/lipping tool looked like - notice #16 - those long prongs at the end are what touched the bottle's neck and caused the swirl marks.

Thanks for all the info Bob!!!.Yes they are calling tooled top a wiped top.Have seen the tool before