Anatomy of a Successful Researched Cache Recovery, a to z

[chirper97]

Do you know of a successful researched cache recovery AND the details of what went into its resolution?

This thread is a request for those T-Net members who know of SUCCESSFUL cache location projects to share the abc's of the project.

I personally would not relate my successes, but I would feel comfortable sharing step by step recoveries by other trusted "individuals" including Joe the Hoe, Hardrock Marciano, or Max the Excavator.

Example:

1. How did the cache's existence become suspected or known?

2. What resources such as libraries, interviews, photographs, topos, and archives were used?

3. How did the THer gain access to the cache location?

4. How was the cache pin-pointed and extricated? Ex. MD, bottle probe, removing a board?
What challenges did you overcome?

5. What happened after the cache was located?

Items such as the city, state, size of cache, any identifying information can be eliminated.

It would be nice to know the type of cache...or not, if discretion is required.



I am requesting no digression and humor posts.

 

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[Kimber]

This post really caught my attention in that I can see that you are attempting to get some of the successful cache hunters/finders to discretely reveal a minute part of their methodology for others to use. It will be interesting, and I for one, will be closely watching to see if anyone has anything to share. Most of the previous posts have referred in general to published methods and I really don't think there is any "reading between the lines" associated with these posts.

I hope that your thread garners attention and the posts from successful THer's.

 

[SusanMN]

Go to the Best of Treasurenet section and read "My True Treasure Story" by Night Stalker for a great cache recovery story.

 

[chirper97]

Go to the Best of Treasurenet section and read "My True Treasure Story" by Night Stalker for a great cache recovery story.

Thanks Susan.

Here is link to your suggested thread: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,86636.0.html

Very interesting and instructive, although the discovery was accidental and not a result of research.

This thread is requesting information on researched cache recoveries.

 

[docguin]

So you are wanting to share the methods of others but not your own. Have I got that right?

 

[BobinSouthVA]

haven't found one myself but the following thread was my first taste of treasurenet. Some very good and informative ideas that should be preserved. Its on the old boards but maybe you can find it here on the new boards if you are able to search.

http://www.treasurenet.com/f/index.php/topic,3103.0.html

 

[chirper97]

So you are wanting to share the methods of others but not your own. Have I got that right?

Mine, if any, have not been researched cache recoveries.

This thread is for sharing the anatomy of researched cache discoveries, and the steps that led to success.

 

[chirper97]

Well, this thread is nearly a year old. There hasn't been 1 researched cache recovery posted or described.

My impression is that cache recoveries are nearly always based upon word of mouth, direct knowledge of the cache, or accidental.

The perception of researching and 'reading between the lines' as techniques of cache recovery may be based upon imagination and wishful thinking. Fun, but not productive.

 

[truckinbutch]

 

[Shortstack]

Well, this thread is nearly a year old. There hasn't been 1 researched cache recovery posted or described.

My impression is that cache recoveries are nearly always based upon word of mouth, direct knowledge of the cache, or accidental.

The perception of researching and 'reading between the lines' as techniques of cache recovery may be based upon imagination and wishful thinking. Fun, but not productive.

You should read Treasure Hunter's Manual #6 by Karl Von Mueller. That book will give you the answers to your questions with stories of real folks who are no longer "around".

It will also help you to understand why no one has opened their private business to a stranger on an open forum. If you cannot understand the situation then; perhaps you should look for something else. I write this with no malice or ill feelings, but I am a bit surprised that someone would actually ask for valuable and private information such as sought on this post.

 

[Texas_Meteorite_Hunter]

I'll answer it. This was a good question, overdue and well framed.

1. I'm after a particular type of cache, not just any cache. I'm a hobbiest hunter and don't want to go full time. That way this stays fun. So I look in specific type of lead material, be it newspaper, old book, word of mouth, or other source. This makes my 'to be studied further' list.

2. I go to the library, cross reference the area, ie. local county history books, newspaper articles, often personal papers donated to a university collection, or other sources of local lore. I'm looking more to throw the lead out than to find other leads. I'm looking for the 'doesn't make sense' evidence so I can throw it out. However, sometimes I find corroboration. This makes it to my "A" list. Once there, I break out my GIS, and googleearth and look at terrain and build up of the area. Quick and easy, then I take a recon trip to the area and find the local history guy, there's always one. Chat with him, it's easy, I have good social engineering skills. Pick up more info to narrow the scope, or find out it's been found. Usually I have to do some genealogy to narrow it down, and people LOVE talking about that crap. I may have to pull county records to figure out where farmer John held his land in 1921, but I know my GIS, metes and bounds calls (or Section township range). (sometime this winter I'll publish a open source GIS how to)
On rare occasions when I get stuck, I'll write an article in the local newspaper about some of the history and ask for old folks to contact me if they know about xxx.

3. Once I make it my active chase, I find the landowner. Call ahead, saying I'm coming out to the area to do some historical research in a few days/weeks. Show up on their door, dressed neatly for the area, but not dapper. Make sure you have something interesting to show of your research on history. Chat with the owners, discuss the interesting history and oh, by the way I'm interested in doing a little metal detecting on your land. I traditionally bring them a gift from my local area. Wine, book, honey, something. One project I had to pay 4 farmers $100 bucks per year to hunt their property. Took me 2 years (a few weekends a month) covering 460 acres, but I found the goods. If I can't reach the people in advance, I show up on their door some weekend with a map in my hands and I use the "I don't THINK I'm lost, but is that cross-street over there where the old store was..." Everyone want to help the lost guy, it defuses most defensiveness right at the door. Of course, it helps when I'm clean shaven and appropriately dressed. Other angles I've used, is that I'm also a beekeeper and can take care of bee problems they may have in their shed/barn/wall of house etc. So some hunts I may not find the goods, but I get a few gallons of honey and a good hive.

4. I use a Pulse Star 2, with a ten foot wide coil on a cart. Good down to 10m on big targets maybe 15m if my friends are telling the truth on their Argentine capers. In trashy areas and woods, I have to use the 3' wide coil or down to a 1.5' coil. Pinpoint with a old crappy Whites Eagle 2. I've tried using a probe, but the one I have isn't useful in most soils I've found. Also, it doesn't travel well to other countries.

5. I keep what I find if I got permission to keep all that I dig up. In the odd case where I'm forced to play my hand on what I'm after, we divvy it up by pre negotiated percent; and usually I'll buy out his half. In 2 cases, my friend bought me out, as I brought him along because I thought we'd find it that trip. 4 days of hunting and we found it 1 hour before he had to leave.

90% of your time in at #2 doing research. Have the brains and emotional courage to throw away leads that look like garbage and don't pass the smell test. Like the missing Bowie mine, KGC treasure, or a nun's hidden moonshine money. Remember the Wizards 1st Rule - People will believe a lie because they want it to be true, or because they are afraid it is true. Just look at the KGC treasure myth - Dirt poor backwoodsmen guarding a treasure for a cause that is 150 years dead by a organization that never had access to large sums of money. Does that pass your smell test?

I think the best leads are small town leads of miser hoards or bachelor farmers who die in the 20s, 30s or 1940s with a strong likelihood of buried savings.

Whatever you do. Make sure you have fun. Enjoy the history, the landowners, and the footwork. Life's too short to do something just for money.

Oh, and buy Treasure Hunters Manual #7 by KVM and a copy of Sudden Wealth.

Do you know of a successful researched cache recovery AND the details of what went into its resolution?

This thread is a request for those T-Net members who know of SUCCESSFUL cache location projects to share the abc's of the project.

I personally would not relate my successes, but I would feel comfortable sharing step by step recoveries by other trusted "individuals" including Joe the Hoe, Hardrock Marciano, or Max the Excavator.

Example:

1. How did the cache's existence become suspected or known?

2. What resources such as libraries, interviews, photographs, topos, and archives were used?

3. How did the THer gain access to the cache location?

4. How was the cache pin-pointed and extricated? Ex. MD, bottle probe, removing a board?
What challenges did you overcome?

5. What happened after the cache was located?

Items such as the city, state, size of cache, any identifying information can be eliminated.

It would be nice to know the type of cache...or not, if discretion is required.



I am requesting no digression and humor posts.

 

[chirper97]

I'll answer it. This was a good question, overdue and well framed.

1. I'm after a particular type of cache, not just any cache. I'm a hobbiest hunter and don't want to go full time. That way this stays fun. So I look in specific type of lead material, be it newspaper, old book, word of mouth, or other source. This makes my 'to be studied further' list.

2. I go to the library, cross reference the area, ie. local county history books, newspaper articles, often personal papers donated to a university collection, or other sources of local lore. I'm looking more to throw the lead out than to find other leads. I'm looking for the 'doesn't make sense' evidence so I can throw it out. However, sometimes I find corroboration. This makes it to my "A" list. Once there, I break out my GIS, and googleearth and look at terrain and build up of the area. Quick and easy, then I take a recon trip to the area and find the local history guy, there's always one. Chat with him, it's easy, I have good social engineering skills. Pick up more info to narrow the scope, or find out it's been found. Usually I have to do some genealogy to narrow it down, and people LOVE talking about that crap. I may have to pull county records to figure out where farmer John held his land in 1921, but I know my GIS, metes and bounds calls (or Section township range). (sometime this winter I'll publish a open source GIS how to)
On rare occasions when I get stuck, I'll write an article in the local newspaper about some of the history and ask for old folks to contact me if they know about xxx.

3. Once I make it my active chase, I find the landowner. Call ahead, saying I'm coming out to the area to do some historical research in a few days/weeks. Show up on their door, dressed neatly for the area, but not dapper. Make sure you have something interesting to show of your research on history. Chat with the owners, discuss the interesting history and oh, by the way I'm interested in doing a little metal detecting on your land. I traditionally bring them a gift from my local area. Wine, book, honey, something. One project I had to pay 4 farmers $100 bucks per year to hunt their property. Took me 2 years (a few weekends a month) covering 460 acres, but I found the goods. If I can't reach the people in advance, I show up on their door some weekend with a map in my hands and I use the "I don't THINK I'm lost, but is that cross-street over there where the old store was..." Everyone want to help the lost guy, it defuses most defensiveness right at the door. Of course, it helps when I'm clean shaven and appropriately dressed. Other angles I've used, is that I'm also a beekeeper and can take care of bee problems they may have in their shed/barn/wall of house etc. So some hunts I may not find the goods, but I get a few gallons of honey and a good hive.

4. I use a Pulse Star 2, with a ten foot wide coil on a cart. Good down to 10m on big targets maybe 15m if my friends are telling the truth on their Argentine capers. In trashy areas and woods, I have to use the 3' wide coil or down to a 1.5' coil. Pinpoint with a old crappy Whites Eagle 2. I've tried using a probe, but the one I have isn't useful in most soils I've found. Also, it doesn't travel well to other countries.

5. I keep what I find if I got permission to keep all that I dig up. In the odd case where I'm forced to play my hand on what I'm after, we divvy it up by pre negotiated percent; and usually I'll buy out his half. In 2 cases, my friend bought me out, as I brought him along because I thought we'd find it that trip. 4 days of hunting and we found it 1 hour before he had to leave.

90% of your time in at #2 doing research. Have the brains and emotional courage to throw away leads that look like garbage and don't pass the smell test. Like the missing Bowie mine, KGC treasure, or a nun's hidden moonshine money. Remember the Wizards 1st Rule - People will believe a lie because they want it to be true, or because they are afraid it is true. Just look at the KGC treasure myth - Dirt poor backwoodsmen guarding a treasure for a cause that is 150 years dead by a organization that never had access to large sums of money. Does that pass your smell test?

I think the best leads are small town leads of miser hoards or bachelor farmers who die in the 20s, 30s or 1940s with a strong likelihood of buried savings.

Whatever you do. Make sure you have fun. Enjoy the history, the landowners, and the footwork. Life's too short to do something just for money.

Oh, and buy Treasure Hunters Manual #7 by KVM and a copy of Sudden Wealth.

Do you know of a successful researched cache recovery AND the details of what went into its resolution?

This thread is a request for those T-Net members who know of SUCCESSFUL cache location projects to share the abc's of the project.

I personally would not relate my successes, but I would feel comfortable sharing step by step recoveries by other trusted "individuals" including Joe the Hoe, Hardrock Marciano, or Max the Excavator.

Example:

1. How did the cache's existence become suspected or known?

2. What resources such as libraries, interviews, photographs, topos, and archives were used?

3. How did the THer gain access to the cache location?

4. How was the cache pin-pointed and extricated? Ex. MD, bottle probe, removing a board?
What challenges did you overcome?

5. What happened after the cache was located?

Items such as the city, state, size of cache, any identifying information can be eliminated.

It would be nice to know the type of cache...or not, if discretion is required.



I am requesting no digression and humor posts.

Thank you Texas Meteorite, for one of the most useful posts on T-Net.

Wonderful information and insight.

 

[chirper97]

You should read Treasure Hunter's Manual #6 by Karl Von Mueller. That book will give you the answers to your questions with stories of real folks who are no longer "around".

It will also help you to understand why no one has opened their private business to a stranger on an open forum. If you cannot understand the situation then; perhaps you should look for something else. I write this with no malice or ill feelings, but I am a bit surprised that someone would actually ask for valuable and private information such as sought on this post.

Thanks for your post; you probably meant to be more informative and less insulting.
1. This thread clearly stated that no personal or private information is requested. I started this thread to ascertain whether any T-Net members had an actual researched cache recovery, who's research could be shared. The cache location, identity of the researcher, and specifics relating to disclosure of personal facts can be omitted or changed. The anatomy/analysis of the research progression is the goal of this thread. I purchased TH Man #6 in 1981, in addition to #7, and all available TH manuals and literature. This collection and study continues.
I have greatly enjoyed Mueller's writings, but the veracity of his writings have been questioned by at least one close confidant..."Karl was a great story teller, but was known to exaggerate to create stories, not well founded in fact." Of course, when KVMs facts (ex. Lue and pendulum discoveries) are questioned, his writings have been defended by "oh, you have to read between the lines!"

2. I have enjoyed this hobby for nearly 30 years, and it will take more than Shortstack's admonition to limit my activities.

ex animo!

 

[Shortstack]

You should read Treasure Hunter's Manual #6 by Karl Von Mueller. That book will give you the answers to your questions with stories of real folks who are no longer "around".

It will also help you to understand why no one has opened their private business to a stranger on an open forum. If you cannot understand the situation then; perhaps you should look for something else. I write this with no malice or ill feelings, but I am a bit surprised that someone would actually ask for valuable and private information such as sought on this post.

Thanks for your post; you probably meant to be more informative and less insulting.
1. This thread clearly stated that no personal or private information is requested. I started this thread to ascertain whether any T-Net members had an actual researched cache recovery, who's research could be shared. The cache location, identity of the researcher, and specifics relating to disclosure of personal facts can be omitted or changed. The anatomy/analysis of the research progression is the goal of this thread. I purchased TH Man #6 in 1981, in addition to #7, and all available TH manuals and literature. This collection and study continues.
I have greatly enjoyed Mueller's writings, but the veracity of his writings have been questioned by at least one close confidant..."Karl was a great story teller, but was known to exaggerate to create stories, not well founded in fact." Of course, when KVMs facts (ex. Lue and pendulum discoveries) are questioned, his writings have been defended by "oh, you have to read between the lines!"

2. I have enjoyed this hobby for nearly 30 years, and it will take more than Shortstack's admonition to limit my activities.
ex animo!

"Admonition"? If you will reread my post, you will see that I wrote my statement "with no malice or ill feelings", but with "surprise" that someone would ask for such private information on an open forum. After all, almost a year had pasted without a response from anyone , but yourself. You seem to be irritated by that. So be it. I wish you well in your endeavors, but I do have to ask; do you REALLY think that the people who threatened KVM, ransacked his place and burned down his storage building containing all of his reseach material did it because of his "made up " stories? I guess they did that because they did not want him competing with the Brothers Grimm.

You claim to have been in THing for "nearly 30 years", but you are still an amateur because only an amateur would ask how to research treasures after supposedly doing it for 3 decades.

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

When i've tracked back the cause of people badmouthing KvM it
usually comes from them repeating what someone else said. If
they are the prime source of the negative comments it usually
means that they were on the receiving end of a von Mueller
come-uppance. The man stood up for the little guy. He hated
phonies and he hated cheats. He loved practical jokes. He got the
"reputation" for printing bull because he planted a couple of fake
stories so that he could prove that they had been lifted without
credit by other authors. There is one phony book listed in Journals
of Eldorado for that reason. The most infamous example of that
was the fantastic NELOTS treasure. He listed it in his usual place
in his usual way and within a couple months it had appeared in
several of the national magazines with "additional" details. That is
when he lowered the boom and announced to all and sundry that
it was a hoax planted as an honesty test and that anyone who
bothered to read the name backwards would know that it was
STOLEN. You said where you got the word on KvM. Judge for
yourself whether your source is just repeating what he heard or
working from personal malice. siegfried schlagrule

 

[Shortstack]

Hey, SS. I'd forgotten the NELOTS treasure story. My favorite one was where he found that trunk with thousands of dollars in Confederate money inside and started the rumor that he'd found a bunch of money. The local lawman, mayor, and a judge visited him offering their services in "protecting" his find. When he told them it was in Confederate money, they got pissed at him for his joke.

Anyway, chirper97 put down KVM, and then uses his "patented" signature which is misspelled to boot. I believe KVM wrote it as "exanimo".......one word.

I wonder how many people are aware that Karl Von Mueller is the person who coined the phrase "coinshooting"?

 

[chirper97]

Hey, SS. I'd forgotten the NELOTS treasure story. My favorite one was where he found that trunk with thousands of dollars in Confederate money inside and started the rumor that he'd found a bunch of money. The local lawman, mayor, and a judge visited him offering their services in "protecting" his find. When he told them it was in Confederate money, they got pissed at him for his joke.

Anyway, chirper97 put down KVM, and then uses his "patented" signature which is misspelled to boot. I believe KVM wrote it as "exanimo".......one word.

I wonder how many people are aware that Karl Von Mueller is the person who coined the phrase "coinshooting"?

ex animo: Heartily; sincerely.............I use this expression in its original, and grammatically correct form.

I did not 'put down' KVM, and paraphrased a gentleman who was the proprietor of Research Unlimited, and who I would think, should have the 'dope' on the accuracy of much of KVM's writings.

I treasure all of KVM's writings and can only hope that another author can one day equal his enjoyment value.

I respect and value the opinions and expertise of Siegfried.

 

[chirper97]

To avoid thread derailment, I repeat that the intent of this thread is to share the anatomy/analysis of a successful researched cache discovery

Change names, locations, and omit any personal information. Report information as 'coming from a trusted friend', or whatnot. My null hypothesis is "no treasure hunter on this forum has recovered a significant cache based upon research".

Let's prove this null hypothesis incorrect.

 

[Tnmountains]

I had often heard about a village located on a river but had not been able to locate the site. The river had been impounded so the chances of it being underwater were great. I located all the old maps I could of the areas before impoundment. I found several diffrent curves in the river that would have been shallow back then creating easy crossings. I then looked at the topo maps and terrain. How each was located to the sun and a westerly wind. This narrowed it down to two diffrent bends or curves in the river. I then again went back to my topo maps and looked for elevation to protect the site from flash flooding.This left only one spot left.
I went by boat to the suspected site and started exploring the high inside of the bend. I came across a large recent downed tree and while exploring the root ball I discovered two ancient knifes and a semi bi-facial platter all touching stacked and exposed in the up turned root ball. A cache. The site is estimated to date back over 12,000 years and the items recovered date to before De-Sotos wanderings there at a little over 2,000 years. The items would probably bring a decent price but being the only true cache I have ever found will remain in secure storage.

Green check this puppy !
HH
TnMountains

 

[chirper97]

I had often heard about a village located on a river but had not been able to locate the site. The river had been impounded so the chances of it being underwater were great. I located all the old maps I could of the areas before impoundment. I found several diffrent curves in the river that would have been shallow back then creating easy crossings. I then looked at the topo maps and terrain. How each was located to the sun and a westerly wind. This narrowed it down to two diffrent bends or curves in the river. I then again went back to my topo maps and looked for elevation to protect the site from flash flooding.This left only one spot left.
I went by boat to the suspected site and started exploring the high inside of the bend. I came across a large recent downed tree and while exploring the root ball I discovered two ancient knifes and a semi bi-facial platter all touching stacked and exposed in the up turned root ball. A cache. The site is estimated to date back over 12,000 years and the items recovered date to before De-Sotos wanderings there at a little over 2,000 years. The items would probably bring a decent price but being the only true cache I have ever found will remain in secure storage.

Green check this puppy !
HH
TnMountains

Great post!

Thank you, and congratulations!