Possible cache location found, how to retrieve.

[ScubaFinder]

Reading through my county history, I stumbled onto a story of some indians that got a settlement payment from the US Govt. in Silver, the four were on their way back when the civil war broke out (I think) and with all the activity, they decided to bury it. They marked the location with a tree carving, and it was never recovered.

Later in an old newspaper article, I found a story of a kid who was out roaming around, and found the dang tree! He tried to dig, but noticed some indians watching him, and ran home. His father hired an excavation company and they dug up a large wooden box...the story goes that when they were hoisting it up out of the hole, it fell and rolled down the hill into some quicksand and sank, and was never recovered. Sounds pretty far fetched to me....

The newspaper detailed the location pretty well ( in miles and direction from a county road that still exists today). Well, having nothing to do today, I went on a quest...and I found the tree carving. It had a large depression on the river side where a hole had obviously been dug some years ago, and get this, there is quick sand at the bottom of the hill that the tree sits on!

What do you guys think the odds are that it's still down there in the quick sand. Is there an inexpensive device that I could build or rent and drop down into the quicksand? It is said the some of this stuff is 90 feet deep around the river and I believe it. Seems like youd have to land right on top of it to get a hit anyways, since reposistioning the detector would be impossible. Maybe i should just dredge the area with a hook or something blindly?

What do you guys think? I'm new to this, and for all I know this is an old tale that was never true...somebody carved the tree afterwards to fool guys like me (allthough it looks like it was done many years ago). Should I invest any time trying to figure out if it's still there? If it is still there, how the heck would you get it out.

Jason

[Marty-Graw]

you think maybe they said it rolled down into the quicksand to throw IRS off their trail?

[ScubaFinder]

I think anything is possible....I actually had a paragraph about things that "could" have happened, in my original post, but deleted it as "speculation" before posting it.

Jason

[Bigcypresshunter]

...they dug up a large wooden box...the story goes that when they were hoisting it up out of the hole, it fell and rolled down the hill into some quicksand and sank, and was never recovered.

sounds like the bad dream I keep havng.

[Kentucky Kache]

I don't know how you'd get it out of the quicksand, but this is
what treasure hunting is all about. Whatever you do, don't dismiss
it as just a tale. Maybe it is just a tale, but how will you know
for sure, if you don't try.
I wish you the the best, and keep us posted.

[Gypsy Heart]

I think I would get a long pole and test the depth of the quicksand.
I would also get a box,fill it with rocks,hoist it up in the tree and let her fall. Follow the path to see where it rolls

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

gypsyheart I think I would get a long pole and test the depth of the quicksand.
I would also get a box,fill it with rocks,hoist it up in the tree and let her fall. Follow the path to see where it rolls
*****
Don't be soo damn practical and logical love eheheheheh

Topical Tramp

[schlooppy]

I don't know how sturdy the wood box would have been made, but it seems to me that after falling to the ground and rolling down a hill it would have busted open at some point. Might be a cover story so no one knows they recovered it.

[double barrel]

i'ld metal detect the hill, if it did break open and the coins spilled they might not have recovered all of them.and may lead you a little further in your quest.

[Gypsy Heart]

Something about this story just isnt making sense. How steep is the incline of that hill? Other than maybe a foot above the ground ,once hoisted out ....how far could it have possible fallen. Why would they hoist it high into the air? What year was this suppose to have been according to the newspaper article? Other than hoisting it high enough to load onto a truck bed or a wagon, they wouldnt be taking it more than four feet up.
I know ...questions questions. How deep was the hole they dug it out of . Because my first impulse would be to open the box once it was pulled up ,before loading it on anything. And last but not least....the kid noticed indians watching him and took off,only to have his dad hire an excavation company. What excavation companies were in existance the same time as Indians roaming about? Most country folk would have just pulled the box out by hitching it to the horse......

[schlooppy]

Many more good questions Gypsy. Something is strange with the story

[bakergeol]

Yep sounds like a long yarn to entertain the kids. Based on the illusion we have seen in the movies about how quicksand will just suck you it. The real truth is reprinted from "How stuff works". In this case "How quicksand works".


"Quicksand is not quite the fearsome force of nature that you sometimes see on the big screen. In fact, quicksand is rarely deeper than a few feet. It can occur almost anywhere if the right conditions are present. Quicksand is basically just ordinary sand that has been so saturated with water that the friction between sand particles is reduced. The resulting sand is a mushy mixture of sand and water that can no longer support any weight. "


If quicksand is "rarely deeper than a few feet" so why didn't they take a shovel and dig it out? Nah can't dig a foot or two to become incredibly wealthy. If they were afraid of getting wet (scary cat treasure hunters) why didn't they wait until a dry spell and dig a couple of feet? It would spoil the story.
Also you have to remember a thing called "bedrock". We have accumulations of soil above hard in-situ natural bedrock or natural sandstone, limestone, igneous rock etc. How deep the bedrock is will influence how deep the box could possibly go. You may only have a few feet of soil in your area before you encounter bedrock.

By the way when I was a young puppy I found the county historical records from my area had numerous treasure tales- great yarns but no fact.

George

[Kentucky Kache]

Yep sounds like a long yarn to entertain the kids. Based on the illusion we have seen in the movies about how quicksand will just suck you it. The real truth is reprinted from "How stuff works". In this case "How quicksand works".


"Quicksand is not quite the fearsome force of nature that you sometimes see on the big screen. In fact, quicksand is rarely deeper than a few feet. It can occur almost anywhere if the right conditions are present. Quicksand is basically just ordinary sand that has been so saturated with water that the friction between sand particles is reduced. The resulting sand is a mushy mixture of sand and water that can no longer support any weight. "


If quicksand is "rarely deeper than a few feet" so why didn't they take a shovel and dig it out? Nah can't dig a foot or two to become incredibly wealthy. If they were afraid of getting wet (scary cat treasure hunters) why didn't they wait until a dry spell and dig a couple of feet? It would spoil the story.


George

They didn't have "How stuff works" in the 1800s. If they believed
the quicksand to be too deep for a recovery...
As gypsy said, check the depth.

[ScubaFinder]

I have several 8 ft. lengths of PVC and connectors that I can haul down there and check. I love the "How stuff works" comment, but look up Quick Sand and The Red River and see what the local geologists have to say about it....the 90 ft. deep comment was not my speculation, I read it in a geological survey of the area.

The tree sits on a small hill about 4 feet above the sand level, about 5 feet away from the edge (small 1 ft. drop off to the sand). Probably 5 feet of 40 degree slope to the ledge, only about 2 feet from the edge of the depression where the hole was dug.

Let me get something straight, everything I read (I am VERY new to this) told me the best place to start was in county history records and old newspaper articles. Now everyone is saying they make good yarn, but no facts.... WHICH IS IT?? I'd hate to think that this forums leads all newbies on a wild goose chase before telling them the real deal...this is an 11 mile hike through sand, water, brush, and yeah...some quicksand (a lot for my late 30's body). I don't mind the exercise, but you guys are contradicting yourselves I say this in a light hearted way, but if I'm busting my A$$ chasing a childrens folklore story.......well, you know.

Seriously, I realize all of these stories have the potential to be gold mines, or fruitless searches. This seemed to me to be most likely first great hunt. The County History coupled with a Newspaper article from years later validated it somewhat for me. I'll have to recheck the dates, but my guess is right around the beginning of the civil war, or at least when the war got down to the Texas Oklahoma line. The excavation company had a hoist, a mule, and some rope the way I read it...left a lot of details out. Even though it didn't take place in Wichita County, I found it in the Wichita County History (there's only one) and the article was from the Wichita Falls Times and Record News.

I'll give all the details away...not like it's a big secret anyhow. The site is 15 miles west of CR 170 on the Red River. You can go 4 miles down a dirt road and park where noone can see you. The rest is a hike down the river bank...mostly pretty smooth sand walking...some points you have to get in the water, others you sink in the sand. All in all it's not really that bad of a walk, about 2 hours at a leisurely middle aged pace I stopped a lot to look at different things, waded out to an island, and was constantly looking for the sight of an old indian trading post that should be near by.

The story may be BS...but I guess it was fun, and I am going to go back and try to probe the sand, maybe poke around and see if I can find anything hard. The tree has a buffalo carved in it with one horn up and one horn down facing the river. I'll make copies of the story this week and repost here. I'll also let you know how the probing goes, and I will detect around the tree to see if anything is laying around the area. I think it was silver bars though, so I doubt they'd miss one.

Jason

[audigger53]

What they were trying to say was "Go for it", just don't be upset if it is gone.<G>
If it is not too deep, then a coffer dam or making a dam around where you want to dig. This will keep the water and new sand out of your work area. Your idea with the PVC is a pretty good idea. I'm a little lazier, I'd use a short boat rod with 20-30 pound line and 6-8 sinkers to make at least a 1/2 a pound or more of weight. Drop that in and when it hits "bottom" start measuring the line as you pull it back up by hand(not the reel).

[Kentucky Kache]

The tree has a buffalo carved in it with one horn up and one horn down facing the river.

A pic of the buffalo would be nice, too.
Thanks for this story, it's what keeps a treasure hunter going.

[bakergeol]

Which treasure yarn is real and which is phony? It is up to you to decide. You yourself used the words "far fetched".

I remember when I first starting detecting in my area I was encouraged by an older treasure hunter. He had been searching for several lost silver mines(maybe a lead mine as well). As proof he showed several articles in the county historical archives about the lost silver mines. There you go- solid proof. Well years later I went to college became a geologist and became quite familiar with the geology of the region. The stories were bogus. Silver could simply not occur in the sedimentary environment of the region- no question about it- just solid proof.

What you have found are leads to possible treasure. Perhaps you need to look at the basic premise. One time I was looking at a train robbery in which the loot was supposedly buried in this one locality. Actually a good local legend. Folks had been looking for this thing for years. Well I went back to the newspaper archives and finally found good material about the robbery which had long been forgotten. I was surprised to find that all of the loot was recovered by the posse. There are still folks who are looking for this cache today and they will never find it because it doesn't exist. Yes this fictional treasure is mentioned in more than one treasure book. Yep once it's on paper must be fact.

Perhaps you need to know if the basic premise is correct. Did the government pay the local Indians silver in exchange for their land? If the basic premise is bogus so is the story. Do more research.


HH
George

[Kentucky Kache]

Perhaps you need to know if the basic premise is correct. Did the government pay the local Indians silver in exchange for their land? If the basic premise is bogus so is the story. Do more research.
HH
George

I would agree with that. That's basic research and good advice.
But, if nothing is found to disprove the treasure, why not
let the guy have fun searching. The hunt is part of the treasure.

[Cubfan64]

Perhaps you need to know if the basic premise is correct. Did the government pay the local Indians silver in exchange for their land? If the basic premise is bogus so is the story. Do more research.
HH
George

I would agree with that. That's basic research and good advice.
But, if nothing is found to disprove the treasure, why not
let the guy have fun searching. The hunt is part of the treasure.

I might even take it one step further and say that the hunt is often even more than the treasure. I've noticed now and then people make posts requesting some advice and probably a little "go for it" enthusiasm and can sometimes be knocked down by others. I'm honestly not pointing at anyone with my comments, I guess all I'm saying is that I'm surprised since one of the prime characteristics of treasure hunters is optimism.

I realize in this case people have been very good about being "realistic" about the story and such, but at the same time, think about the stories of buried treasure, hidden caches etc... that probably got into your head at one time or another and got you excited about this fantastic hobby - I think we owe it to others to let them have that "moment" as well.

That said, I think the original poster has his head on straight realizing that the odds are against him that there's anything really there, but then again 1 chance in a million is all it takes if it pans out and I know if I were in his shoes, I'd kick myself if I didn't at least try to find out if it's really there or not.

Do what you suggested about probing the "hole" and see if you can get an estimate of how deep it is - if it's not bad, start dredging it out if you can. One way or another, look for it until you feel confident that it either is or isn't there - that's about all you can do

Good luck my friend and I hope the treasure hunting bug's bite has infected you - it's one of the few infectious diseases that's fun to catch imho

[grizzly bare]

scuba,
I think Cappy Z had your answer on another posting. Scrounge up some pieces of four foot diameter metal culvert and several connectors. Start feeding the culvert into the quicksand and connecting pieces. When you hit bottom, use a dredge to "suck out" the quicksand.

Just a thought

Jim Johnson

grizzly bare