Civil War Cache / Marker

[Slim30]

I posted this story on another site without any response. I was hoping that I could get some feedback here. Please read the story and the questions at the bottom.

I know of a place where a possible civil war era cache is located.

Around 1950 a man purchased a tract of land. And in preparing to farm this property he had portions of it cleared of trees and large rocks with a dozer. Around 1960 a man came to the property claiming to have a map leading to a cache on the property. This cache was a civil war era cache from a robbery. The owner allowed the man to go look for the cache agreeing to spit what was found. After some time the man came back to the owner very upset, as the trees and rocks that were to have been used as markers were not there. The owner laughed and told of his clearing the land. The man with the map left.

This property is in the mid-west and I have access to it. I have never seen the map. However, someone that was there during the previously told event, told me of the general location in which the cache was thought to be. A few days ago, I was walking around the property and saw a large trapezoidal shaped rock leaned against a very large oak tree, approximately 8-10 feet in circumference, with a smaller rock beneath it. I am sure that this is rocks position is coincidence, not a real pointer. However, out of curiosity I followed what looked to be the most obvious point of the rock. After walking in that direction for a couple hundred feet, I found another oak tree rather unusually shaped. This tree is approximately 5-6 feet in circumference at the base. Approximately 3.5 feet from the ground, the tree spits to form a "V". Approximately 1.5-2 feet from the base of the "V" a limb crosses the "V" and has grown into and through the opposite limb of the "V". Nothing else seemed to stick out as unusual in the area. This is in the general area where the cache is thought to be.

My questions are... How big would a white oak tree be now, if it were alive during the civil war (accounting for the variance in seasons in the mid-west)? What is the likelihood of an oak tree limb growing into and through another limb of the same tree, parallel to the ground? Would it not have been too much effort for someone, obviously not wanting to stay in the area, to bind a limb of a, small at the time, oak tree to another for a marker?

 

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[Kentucky Kache]

Have you talked to the land owner and asked him where all he has cleared trees and rocks?

 

[Lucky13]

Buy a T2 and purchase me a bus ticket,We`ll form a line search lol

 

[Slim30]

The owner was my grandfather. He passed several years ago. The property was purchased when my father was very young. I have a general idea where the property was cleared. The tree that I suspect of being modified is on the edge of where the property was cleared, on the edge of a hillside. So to answer the question directly, I don't know exactly where it was cleared. Neither does my father. And there isn't anyone to ask.

 

[GrayCloud]

There were some White Oaks on a piece of property I was looking at just South of Memphis, just across the state line in Mississippi. The property had some huge trees on it of different varieties. So I had a man with me that knew trees and their value. He said the larger White Oaks were around 300 years old. Some of them were in excess of 8 ft. in diameter. There were also Red Oak and Black Walnut tree on the property. There was one Cherry Bark, that he said was the largest he had ever seen. The property was for sale for $225,000 at that time. Long story short, I did not buy this property. But Ross Pereau did, after it was on the market for about two years. He paid $17,000,000.00 for it. Came in and level the whole place, burning every tree there and put in giant metal warehouses. What a waste? I did not want to see them cut down period, but to cut them down and burn them was unthinkable. There value and beauty of the wood meant nothing to Ross.

 

[goverton]

How big is this tract of land?
You may need a 2 box detector or Whites TM909 or Tm808 if it is stored in a big box( like Wells Fargo Box).
Or you could get a Garrett Detector that does both small coins and large boxes.

Take a squared area at a time and mark off with stakes. Then walk up and down detecting.
I know it is a long shot this way, but most markers sound like they are gone except for this tree. That tree may not
be all you need to find the spot to search.

If this area has plat maps available from US GOvt., you might find that there were trail or trails that went thru this area.
These trails could be located by placing jpg of plat map in Google earth.
I have done this in my areas of hunting with good success......Most hide outs were near trails, creeks, and caves.

Good luck.

 

[Frankn]

If it were my hunt, I would place a marker on two sides of the suspected leveled area and grid it back and forth, moving the stakes at each pass. I would use a two box, which I have. To speed it up you could get a PI unit and 6' wide blanket coil and pull it with an ATV or Rokon. It cost money to make money. Frank

 

[Slim30]

Thank you all for all of your input!

The property is about 150 acres. This is one reason that I do not expect to ever find anything. However, while walking around the property, I found that unusual tree and couldn't help but remember the story. The property is in an area that was heavily used before, during, and somewhat after the Civil War. There is a creek, caves, and during the Civil War a large spring existed on the property. The spring has since stopped flowing. Historically, the location has been quite active. As a result of this activity, my father detected the area some. He found mini balls and a few old coins, but nothing major. I always had the impression that the cache was relatively small, something a single man could carry. However, that doesn't mean anything. I expect that if during the clearing of the property, if a dozer operator found a cache of gold / silver coins, he would have pocketed said coins and never mentioned them.

In searching the internet, the best estimate that I can find for the age of the unusual oak is around 100 years. 1911 is a long time ago, but not as long ago as the story tells. I understand that estimating a tree's age based on size is at best an estimated guess and the estimate could be off by several years. I still intend to detect the area around that tree and will use a grid pattern for my search. However, for that to happen, the temperatures are going to have to drop significantly!

 

[rwd mo]

You can go to your county extension office or library and get plat maps of the area u are looking in for back in the fifties or what ever year u want. then get a map of your area (ariel view) from the county(a couple bucks) and then look at one against the other. U will see where the trees were dozed off etc. If u believe in a dowser then have a dowser map dowse u an ariel view map (from county extension office) of the property,it may cost 50 bucks but its worth it. I been doing this for 41 yrs and a dowser works for me to get u in the right area and less wasted time.jmho. rwd mo (Bob in sw.mo.)

 

[Slim30]

I found that section in the library and I have looked at plat maps. I have not seen an aerial photos from prior to the '50s. I will have to look again for pre-50s aerial maps. I wish that I could find the map that the gentlemen had when looking for the cache. Of course if we all had maps to what we were seeking, there wouldn't be anything left to find.

Dowsing is an interesting subject. My maternal grandfather could dowse water and get very close to knowing how deep a driller would have to go to reach water. Several well drillers in the area came to him for help prior to drilling. I am able to dowse water as well. I have always been a skeptical believer, my term. I am not sure how or why it works, but, I have used a Y branch to dowse water in multiple places; water lines, well sites, etc. I have heard stories of dowsing for gold or silver, but, I have never witnessed any such event. Map dowsing is completely foreign to me as well. It was reccomended that I seek assistance from a map dowser. I may pursue that avenue. That is an event that I would like to witness or even try myself.

 

[rwd mo]

slim 30= Sometimes u can go to your county extension office and they will have maps (ariel) back some years. this is what i was referring to. I was after a cache in eastern kansas two yrs ago and went to the extension office of the county it was in and lo and be hold they had aerial maps back 40 years etc. also heres another one. Go to your local college in library section and they have a room full of topo maps and aerial maps for years and years back. they can even blow the map up or shrink it for u for like a buck or so I do this also as I live 10 blocks from a large missouri college,my college has thousands and thousands of topo maps etc in their map room. a cache hunters paradise.

 

[PikesPeakCharlie]

Hi,just an Idea,,, I would not only detect around both trees,,,,but also detect the tree itself ,that forms a V,maybe the cache was hidden in a split at the V or the branches that grew together. Good Luck HH

 

[Texas Jay]

Hi Slim30. If I were you, I'd first use the V as you would a gunsight. Look through both sides of it to see if it points to any obvious landmarks. Then, search out from each side of the V, in the directions it points, with a deep-seeking detector. The Knights of the Golden Circle used these "gunsight trees" to mark their treasure sites. They can either point to another clue or to a cache. The Knights continued to bury treasure in their "banks" (underground depositories) for decades after the Civil War ended. They also regularly re-marked their sites and moved some of their treasures after 1900. While the organization ceased operations in 1916, sentinels were appointed to guard these treasure sites for many decades. Even if the cache you are seeking is not a KGC cache, it is reasonable to assume it was marked following procedures utilized by the Knights for marking their treasures.
~Texas Jay
http://knightsofthegoldencircle.webs.com

 

[Slim30]

Charlie,

I had not thought to detect the tree. I will do that. A problem will be that this area has been used for farming for several years and the tree may contain wire or nails that were not put there as markers.


Jay,

I did look through the 'V' as if it were the rear sight of a gun. One direction is open pasture. The other direction is young timber. However, on the other side of the young timber is another hillside and a creek. Just for fun, I will walk to the creek in that direction and look around it and the hillside. I expect that if this tree is a marker, the direction intended would be to the pasture. I base this on the story of the map and the general suggested location of the cache. If this theory is accurate the item to which it points is likely long gone. But, I will detect and search in that direction.

I really do appreciate everyone's input. Thanks.

 

[mebesaturday]

Slim30,

are you blind? The treasure is right in front of you.... see it right here, right next to the booth charging people $100 a day to go metal detecting on you 150 acre hidden treasure spot. Finders must split 50/50 any finds.

I offer to run said booth for room, board and free deteching on the weekends

JW

 

[nextlevel]

Slim30,

are you blind? The treasure is right in front of you.... see it right here, right next to the booth charging people $100 a day to go metal detecting on you 150 acre hidden treasure spot. Finders must split 50/50 any finds.

I offer to run said booth for room, board and free deteching on the weekends

JW

Do people actually do stuff like this?

 

[BLB878]

white oak trees grow big fast. i would age that tree 100. a question i asked a friend over the summer while deteting on some land of his. he knew tree values etc..

 

[uglymailman]

In 1976 I was working as a land surveyor under contract from the Corp of Eng.. Our company was required to locate any "Bi Centennial" Trees (200 yrs old). We found 2 in 156 sections (156 sq. miles). It takes a big tree to be 150 yrs old. One was an oak. I don't remember what kind for sure but think it was a white oak. I can tell you that 2 large men w/ their chests against the tree could not touch finger tips. The trees were to be measured 1' above the ground.
I am sure there are charts that will tell you approximate growth rates for all trees in each part of each state. I know that here in 90's the U.S. Forestry Service charted all the trees in the county. They did this all over the U.S. for years, probably still do.
I do know that following the original notes of the first surveyor here in 1835 you will find a lot more trees now. You'd think with all firewood use etc. just the opposite.
As mentioned above, looking at a county extension office for old photos (aerial) would be a help. Good luck.

 

[rovnrbl53]

Are you still working this project? At the least, sounds like good potential for Civil War relics and maybe earlier with a spring?

 

[lastleg]

Can't figure what Civil War has to do with a yarn about a "robbery cache". Sure it gets lots more replies if you call it that. The only clue
mentioned was a hunter who said he was looking for loot from a holdup/robbery (1860s?). The Midwest is a huge area, some of it had
CW action but not much unless you are including Missouri. As far as holdup artists using the KGC as a model for caching illegal gains
well, you have to consider the source of such nonsense.