The Offer

[Frankn]

khpony, It's like a jigsaw puzzle, and all the pieces are not in the box. You have to look for them elsewhere. Yes I can see you know the routean. The thing that gets me is the replies that state the research work doesn't count because it was done before you approached the land owner. Some don't realize the research reveals the cache site and the land owner. I think some think that cache hunting is reading a story with all the details and then just going there and digging it up. You can sure tell the vets from the wanttobees. Frank

 

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[ppratt]

Kentucky, It's not the money that matters to me, it's the fairness of the deal. Oh yes, the moneys nice, but it gets kind of tainted when you have to bend over and get the shaft to get it.
Pratt, I don't really think you understand what is going on in this post. It is kind of an exchange of thoughts and viewpoints. There are no right or wrongs here, only ideas that might or might not work in different situations.
Shermanville, I hope that is French Roast in that pot. View attachment 630124

I have read this post, well most of the pages anyway. Seems like the majority of the people are saying its not fair, and it's greed. Your saying" No" and your fighting tooth and nail to get us on your side. So please fill me in, if I missed anything.

 

[Frankn]

ppratt You have to read between the lines. I would venture a guess that most that replied to this post have never invested the vast amount of time required to find a cache. There replies reflect this. You can tell the ones that have paid their dues like Khpony in #420. It appears that some can not even imagine the work involved in locating a cache. The strikeout rate is rather high too so you have to take that into consideration. I guess the closest thing is relic hunting which requires research, but not nearly as much as cache hunting.

 

[ppratt]

ppratt You have to read between the lines. I would venture a guess that most that replied to this post have never invested the vast amount of time required to find a cache. There replies reflect this. You can tell the ones that have paid their dues like Khpony in #420. It appears that some can not even imagine the work involved in locating a cache. The strikeout rate is rather high too so you have to take that into consideration. I guess the closest thing is relic hunting which requires research, but not nearly as much as cache hunting. View attachment 631501

I can tell the ones that did it the right way and spoke with the owner to make sure they don't blow there wad, and hope a pray that the owner is approachable and would like to spilt the money the way you want.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Kentucky, can you please explain that for me? His counter offer was $6M for him and $3M for me and $3M for my partner. How do you see this as being greedy by me? All I asked for was an even split of $4M each. To me that's fair not greedy.

Because 3 million was turned down because you wanted more. Regardless of what the landowner did, you turned down more money, if it's actually there, than most people make in a lifetime. And you did so because you didn't get your price? Really, no cache hunter would ever do that if they truly believed the money was laying there.

And for those who say the rest of us have never put in the time and know what it's like. I have spent well over 20 years on my best cache lead. I have done a ton of research over the years, and have found what I consider to be near confirmation that the cache was buried. But I don't have permission to hunt the land. I think that qualifies me as knowing what it's like. And if I were offered anywhere near 1/3 of what may, or may not be there, I would jump at the chance. Any of you who say you wouldn't do the same for 3 million dollars are just fooling yourselves, because the rest of us know better.

 

[Frankn]

Kentucky, You keep talking about MONEY. The Offer is about a fair split, not a $$ sign. No one knows if it was really buried, if it was removed, or if part was used. That means the dollar value is a guess at best. The only thing you know for sure is the work done to locate it and the possible work required to actually recover it. This is the basis of THE OFFER. You through in an example with no details. You said you couldn't get permission to search. How much time did you spend on that perticular cache? What was it's value? What was your offer?

 

[ppratt]

Its all about money. Thats what a split is. He wants more than you.

I'm thinking before you dove in to this to deep, you may have opened communication between the two of you sooner. It might have went like this Excuse me sir. Im #@!@, i've done a bit a research and believe there maybe a sizable cache or buried money or something of value on your property. Do you think we can discuse a partnership or mind if I look around. If he says yes then go for it if he says no. Say thanks heres my name and number give it some thought if you like and get back to me. Give him a call every few months or so to keep the bug in his ear. If you would have done that then maybe this thread wouldnt exist.

 

[tomjiggy]

I haven't given much in opinion concerning this, but the way I look at it you have 2 options. 1) Continue to hold out hoping that the owner will either croak and the new owner will jump at the chance for free money, or 2) take his offer(however unfair you may think it is) and walk away with at least part of the hoard(if it is there at all). There is the possibility that the current owner will finally cave in to you and you will be able to split it like you proposed, but consider the one thing the owner COULD do. He could find someone else to locate the cache and walk away with what he wants or more, and you would still be left out after all the hard work you have done. He might not find it at all, but he might outlive you and your partner as well, still leaving you out of the equation. I can only imagine the work and time you two have spent researching to find this cache. You do have to ask yourself this one thing. Are you willing to throw it all away? Just some things to think about....

 

[Frankn]

ppratt, Well if you read the thread you should know that is just about how it has gone so far.
tomjiggy, Yes, he could try to find it but he really doesn't know what he is looking for or the markings that lead to it. Yes I would walk away rather than come out on the short end of the deal. At my age, some things are worth more than money like fairness, integerty, honor.

 

[ppratt]

Well, my partner and myself have found the site of a cache. I sent an offer to the land owner of 1/3 for my partner,1/3 for me and 1/3 for the land owner. His reply was he would only accept a 50/50 deal. I sent an E Mail ex planing that we had spent months of research time and on the ground research time plus paid for additional info. I mentioned that if the cash had already been found we loose time effort and money on the search but he looses nothing. I also ex planed that possibly months of electronic searching may still be required. The question for this post is do you think he will accept the 1/3 cut? Frank

This was your first post you did not mention a face to face meeting. If you sent an email then his first thoughts are "SCAM". I'm in the IT field and that the first thing we teach users. As for the fairness, integerty and honer thing. Thats sweet it should go on your headstone.

 

[yesiamapirate]

Frankn, I am new to this site and dont even own a detector. BUT between my mother and I we own over 100 pieces of deedable property. We have a little bit of everything. I also put some deals together for others. Sometimes finding tenants for commercial properties takes months of intense negotiations. Historical cut of rents is a 10 % FINDERS fee. You are balking at a 50 % cut. You are failing to recognize that you and your partner serve as 1 of only 2 entities in this transaction ( landownr & finder ). This has absolutely nothing to do with integrity. The landowner in this case has only negotiated what he feels is a fair deal. And I would concur. I would not offer that large of a share. My father ( who amassed a multi multi million fortune from scratch ) repeatedly told me since I could remember " Dont worry about what the other guy is making... worry about what is in it for you " . This is your deal to do as you wish, but, if there is as much as stake as you have said, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. Integrity has nothing to do with it !

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Kentucky, You keep talking about MONEY. The Offer is about a fair split, not a $$ sign. No one knows if it was really buried, if it was removed, or if part was used. That means the dollar value is a guess at best. The only thing you know for sure is the work done to locate it and the possible work required to actually recover it. This is the basis of THE OFFER. You through in an example with no details. You said you couldn't get permission to search. How much time did you spend on that perticular cache? What was it's value? What was your offer?

I said IF the treasure is actually there. Big if.

I didn't give details of my cache because this thread is about yours. I have put in lots of work on it, but if the landowner offered me 1/10 of anything found, then I would consider that fair, because it really belongs to him. Even if he never had a clue that it even existed, he still holds ownership and control of it.

 

[Frankn]

Kentucky, If you don't want to talk about it, why did you through it in? This thread is about THE OFFER. I just use the cache as an example.You sell yourself cheap at 1/10th, but everyone has an idea of their true value.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Kentucky, If you don't want to talk about it, why did you through it in? This thread is about THE OFFER. I just use the cache as an example.You sell yourself cheap at 1/10th, but everyone has an idea of their true value.

I threw it in as an example. Come on now, you understand that.

Sell myself short? Which is shorter, 1/10 of a small amount, or 100% of nothing? So by your own reckoning, your value is zero. Personally, I think your worth more than that.

 

[MichiganMan]

A very interesting, thought-provoking, and sobering thread.

 

[Frankn]

Kentuckey, It's always 100% of nothing untill you find it! Although, if found, I think I am worth at least 1/3 based on the work involved and that is what I use to guage the %. I really can't see anyone putting in a lot of research time followed by a lot of boots on ground time for 10%.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Kentuckey, It's always 100% of nothing untill you find it! Although, if found, I think I am worth at least 1/3 based on the work involved and that is what I use to guage the %. I really can't see anyone putting in a lot of research time followed by a lot of boots on ground time for 10%.

Because with me it's more about the hunt than the money. And the research is part of the hunt. I can't imagine anyone who loves cache hunting to think of it any other way. Yes there's a lot of work in it, but if I didn't enjoy the work, I wouldn't do it. If I felt the way you do I would never look for treasure, because if I didn't find it I would feel I didn't get what I was worth. I'm not worth anything to begin with, so I'll come out alright either way.

 

[tomjiggy]

I guess for me, I am even cheaper as I have gone out metal detecting/hiking with my friends and family purely for the thrills and memories. I sometimes don't even care if I find anything, although it does help to fund the next hunt . I enjoy the exercise and the companionship of my hunting partners as well as the finds even if I don't get to keep what I find. I have a lot of pleasant memories, and maybe I'll be poor the rest of my life living by my philosophy, but I'm happy. As long as you are happy in the end, then it's worth doing....

 

[NOLA_Ken]

OK, I read through about as much of this thread as I could and I have a couple questions......

First of all, and maybe most importantly, going in to this, why would you even bring up the cache? Why not simply ask the landowner for permission to hunt for relics and mention that you'd be willing to split any finds of value? It seems to me that by mentioning any possible large payout at the beginning just opens you up to all sorts of headaches whether you find it or not. First that you could have the owner decide that you found more than you claimed to and are trying to rook him out of money, or not finding it, have him think that you did and are trying to bilk him out of the whole thing.

Now, if the owner agreed to that and you did find a substantial cache it would be up to you and your own moral compass to decide whether or not to say anything. So at that point, DO YOU SAY ANYTHING? It seems from some of the posts here that you may not want your find to become public knowledge, well what if this guy calls the local news and the taxman and every other yahoo in the county come running to make a claim? I've never found or even gone looking for anything like this, so I can't say how I would act if I made a find like that, but I know that one of the cardinal rules is keep your mouth shut if you want to keep it.

I don't know, it just seems that trying to persuade people by putting dollar signs in their eyes would be counterproductive, and that a better approach might be something along the lines of telling people you are a relic hunter with an interest in relics from the active time frame of the site, and that while it's unlikely to find anything of value that you'd be willing to split fair market value with them if you do.

 

[maipenrai]

Its too late to think about what should or shouldnt have been done, the cat is out of the bag now. A lot of interesting ideas, and I will most certainly think about them, when and if it comes my turn to be in this same situation. Now is the problem of what's the next move, which also brought a lot of suggestions. At this point, I would probably accept the 1/3, since it is still a lot of money, but the suggestion of 1/10, should not be on the table. This is not a real estate deal, not at all in the same class. Also the idea of hunting for fun, must be from someone that has never put much effort into hunting. Yes, this is a hobby to most of us, but if you start giving your time and knowledge away, then you are worth, exactly what you are charging, Nothing!

I am also a diver, and I never dive for free. Even when I am already in the water, and have done a job for someone, if another person comes and ask me to check his boat at the same time, I will charge him for it. The people that know me, know that I will do the job, but sometimes I have been the second diver to do the work, because the first diver was a friend or someone that does diving for a hobby, "free", so had no interest in really doing anything. I have put too much money, and time, to learn my skills, so why give it away? Also a big cache hunting project is not the same as while your tot lot hunting, a lovely mom comes and ask if you can find her keys. For that, you can do a quick hunt, and if you find the keys, you may even get a bonus if your lucky.

The reason I would accept 1/3 and not hold out for 1/2, is just to get the project completed, and move on to the next. I dont really think its a question of right or wrong, just what both can agree on. As someone pointed out, it could be enough to last a life time, so why blow it? Just give up the e-mail and telephone conversations and do a face to face, and complete this project.

And again, Frankn, Good Luck!!