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Thread: The Offer

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  1. #161
    us
    Sep 2008
    Delaware
    V3i, ETrac, Excal II, Shadow X2, Tesoro Silver Max, Coinmaster
    148
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankn
    There's a definite reason why I know he could search from now to doomed day and not find it.
    BS! . . . for $9,000 I just had 11 acres cleared and dug with a dozer and BH down to 20'.

    Anyone with any treasure hunting or investigative sense should know that if you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

    So if this guys smart, he'll do it himself!

    SJA

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  3. #162
    Charter Member
    us
    Sharing the culture, history and adventure of the American Southwest.

    Jun 2006
    Banning, California
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    Re: The Offer

    bump

  4. #163
    Charter Member
    us
    Living the WP

    Apr 2006
    Chesterfield, Va.
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    Re: The Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by sjarchangel
    Quote Originally Posted by Frankn
    There's a definite reason why I know he could search from now to doomed day and not find it.
    BS! . . . for $9,000 I just had 11 acres cleared and dug with a dozer and BH down to 20'.

    Anyone with any treasure hunting or investigative sense should know that if you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

    So if this guys smart, he'll do it himself!

    SJA
    WOW! That is a GREAT price! Around here clearing cost minimum 3,000/acre, No digging in that price,, good job!
    Thomas Paine-
    "Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil," Paine wrote, and "in its worst state an intolerable one." Like many Americans today, Paine believed that government added insult to injury by using tax dollars in ways that were actually harmful to the public. "When we suffer," wrote Paine, "or are exposed to the same miseries by a government which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities are heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." To Paine, "securing freedom and property to all men, and, above all things, freedom of religion," were the only legitimate functions of government. Americans generally agreed, and went to war to achieve this vision.
    http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=233

  5. #164
    Charter Member

    Mar 2003
    So. Cal.
    1,281
    52 times

    Re: The Offer

    Well, at least IF you do find it post some pics. Include the 27 owners and splitters.
    By the time you are done hope everyone gets at least $100.
    If I were the landowner and I had a few years, I'd certainly look for it for a bit
    before I'd call back.
    If you could do the research, so could he.
    But then again, the other side of the coin would be that he gets some $ instead of none.

    Then the IRS comes in a takes half of it all! Hah!

  6. #165
    us
    Jul 2009
    Whiting, NJ
    Ace 250
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    Re: The Offer

    All I can add at this point is thank god Frankn didn't have another 98 members to his research team

    The poor landowner would only get 1%

  7. #166
    Charter Member
    us
    Living the WP

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    Chesterfield, Va.
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    Re: The Offer

    An interesting article for people in Louisiana and maybe a couple of Ideas for Frankn.

    http://geology.com/articles/mineral-rights.shtml

    Article discussing mineral rights( including oil and gas).
    " In addition to a signing bonus, most lease agreements require the lessee to pay the owner a share of the value of produced oil or gas. The customary royalty percentage is 12.5 percent or 1/8 of the value of the oil or gas at the wellhead. Some states have laws that require the owner be paid a minimum royalty (often 12.5 percent). However, owners who have highly desirable properties and highly developed negotiating skills can sometimes get 15 percent, 20 percent, 25 percent or more. When oil or natural gas is produced the royalty payments can greatly exceed the amounts paid as a signing bonus. (Royalty estimation tool). "
    Thomas Paine-
    "Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil," Paine wrote, and "in its worst state an intolerable one." Like many Americans today, Paine believed that government added insult to injury by using tax dollars in ways that were actually harmful to the public. "When we suffer," wrote Paine, "or are exposed to the same miseries by a government which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities are heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." To Paine, "securing freedom and property to all men, and, above all things, freedom of religion," were the only legitimate functions of government. Americans generally agreed, and went to war to achieve this vision.
    http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=233

  8. #167
    us
    I deal in reality

    Mar 2010
    Maryland
    XLT , surfmaster PI , HAYS 2Box , VIBRA-TECTOR
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    Re: The Offer

    OK you guys, put on your flack jackets, herecomes the logic.
    Jason, I am kind of glad that was your last entry, your logic defies logic! I wouldn't want to do business with you!
    The poor guy cuts half your lawn on faith to show you how good he can do it and then just wants the
    regular price to finish and you tell him to take a hike! Nice guy Jason!!
    -You say the expense is all mine and the profit half his?
    -You say my partners work is not worth a split?
    -Get real, the owners 5 brothers did nothing to influence the find!

    Did, What is all yours? You don't know what is there, where it is, or anything about it. You are very ungrateful and the one with greed. Some one comes and offers to give you $50,000 with no strings attached and you look the gift horse in the mouth.

    Sjarchangel, Tell me did you find $50,000? You just spent $9,000. You see there is a difference!

    Spart, I might well have 98 members on my search team, but only one partner!

    Dave44 Good point. Also as I remember, the King of Spain claimed all gold in the new world, but was realistic in that he only took 20%, known as the royal 5TH.

    Think about it . I am surprised that as treasure hunters, some of you are extremely biased toward the greed of the land owner. And some of you see no value in a partners work . Frank

  9. #168
    us
    Jul 2009
    Whiting, NJ
    Ace 250
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    990 times
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    Re: The Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankn

    Spart, I might well have 98 members on my search team, but only one partner!
    Nice, so the rest of the team works for free

    My point is if you even had 2 partners, the landowner would only get 25%

    Sounds fair enough to me


  10. #169
    us
    Sep 2008
    Delaware
    V3i, ETrac, Excal II, Shadow X2, Tesoro Silver Max, Coinmaster
    148
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankn
    Sjarchangel, Tell me did you find $50,000? You just spent $9,000. You see there is a difference!
    No, I wasn't looking for anything, however my $9,000 investment will give me a return in 8 months of $22,500. . . . ANNUALLY. I'd say that was a good deal.

    Do YOU see the difference?

    :-)

  11. #170
    us
    I deal in reality

    Mar 2010
    Maryland
    XLT , surfmaster PI , HAYS 2Box , VIBRA-TECTOR
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    Re: The Offer


    Sjarchangel, Yes, I see the difference. In this case, the land owner invests nothing and gets an immediate return of $50,000 for doing nothing. Do you see the difference? Frank

  12. #171
    us
    Sep 2008
    Delaware
    V3i, ETrac, Excal II, Shadow X2, Tesoro Silver Max, Coinmaster
    148
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Offer

    Well, one last comment and I'm done.

    "Possession is nine-tenths of the law" whether you know you possess it or not.

    :-)

  13. #172
    us
    I deal in reality

    Mar 2010
    Maryland
    XLT , surfmaster PI , HAYS 2Box , VIBRA-TECTOR
    7,128
    1423 times

    Re: The Offer

    But Sjarchangel, you say you possess thing you don't know about. Would you mind making a list of these things? The point is, Having title to and possessing things are completely different things. Frank

    Spart, I think you missed some of the posts. I already stated that one of the team will get $15,000 that comes out of my share and my partners share. I usually do all the work my self and settle for a 50/50 split but at times I take on a partner to ease the task and believe me he works for his cut. I have partners in various states that do the on ground pre hunt checking and then we get together and hit it hard, always on a 50/50 basis between us and if a land owner is involved, a 1/3 split. I am a firm believer that hard work should be rewarded. Frank

    This line of posts makes me wonder what we as hunters think our labor is worth. I think some of us grossly undercut our own worth. Frank


  14. #173
    us
    Sep 2010
    Groveland, CA
    1,097
    299 times
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    Re: The Offer

    And some of us grossly underestimate what our time is worth. You've asked us what we thought. We took our time and told you and you've disagreed with everyone who didn't follw your line of thought and agreed with everyone who did. You didn't want our thoughts in the first place, you wanted validation.

  15. #174
    us
    Sep 2010
    southeast PA
    CTX3030
    711
    61 times

    Re: The Offer

    even if it would cost the homeowner 25 K and 5 years ta find this cashe he'd still be up 125K if infact the cashe had a 150K value, the homeowner has the factor of time and owning the property on his side........and not ta mention the fact that you did the hard part and told him about it already
    down and dirty

  16. #175
    us
    I deal in reality

    Mar 2010
    Maryland
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    7,128
    1423 times

    Re: The Offer

    Calisdad,I am looking for a logical strong alternate opinion, and still am. I have intergrated some good advice I have received here into my plan to form my next move. It will be a real eye opener.

    Dogpound,You are missing two facts. 1 -The interest on $150,000 for 5 years. 2- the fact that it might not be there. In that case,he is out $25,000 and 5 years time and interest. I told him very little, Just the amount, not nearly enough to find it. My next move will get his attention.

    Frank

  17. #176
    us
    Apr 2011
    Redding, CA
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    Re: The Offer

    I don't think you gave a fair shake to the person who mentioned that your effort, and money should not be included into the evaluation of the split.

    I don't think mowing half a lawn for free, then expecting full price to mow the other half was a logical example.

    I think a more honest comparison would be a salesman that works for commission. You do not get paid for your research, your foot work, your common sense, or your ESP.

    What that person does get paid for is the end result. If you put money into getting to that end result without being contracted to do so, then that was your out of pocket expense for doing so.

    If you were a small self employed entity, you would consider this all a write off as part of the business, and leave it at that.

  18. #177
    Charter Member
    us
    Living the WP

    Apr 2006
    Chesterfield, Va.
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    Re: The Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Twisted One
    I don't think you gave a fair shake to the person who mentioned that your effort, and money should not be included into the evaluation of the split.

    I don't think mowing half a lawn for free, then expecting full price to mow the other half was a logical example.

    I think a more honest comparison would be a salesman that works for commission. You do not get paid for your research, your foot work, your common sense, or your ESP.

    What that person does get paid for is the end result. If you put money into getting to that end result without being contracted to do so, then that was your out of pocket expense for doing so.

    If you were a small self employed entity, you would consider this all a write off as part of the business, and leave it at that.
    I kinda agree. As a small, self employed entity, paying both sides of my taxes and often giving estimates for free, I think I would give the 1/3 and leave it there, Because I have done plenty already.
    Amazing how many people do not get the Idea! You put in effort, you get paid or not. The amount you decide to accept is dependent on your hunger I guess.

    Luckily my work is superior to most, I have lost contracts on price, and then the owner asks me to fix the project. I think I have stated that I can be quite cantankerous. I usually let someone that cost me alot of time estimating fix their own problems!
    Thomas Paine-
    "Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil," Paine wrote, and "in its worst state an intolerable one." Like many Americans today, Paine believed that government added insult to injury by using tax dollars in ways that were actually harmful to the public. "When we suffer," wrote Paine, "or are exposed to the same miseries by a government which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities are heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." To Paine, "securing freedom and property to all men, and, above all things, freedom of religion," were the only legitimate functions of government. Americans generally agreed, and went to war to achieve this vision.
    http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=233

  19. #178
    us
    I deal in reality

    Mar 2010
    Maryland
    XLT , surfmaster PI , HAYS 2Box , VIBRA-TECTOR
    7,128
    1423 times

    Re: The Offer

    Twisted one, It doesn't fit. I am selling nothing. The land owner is giving me nothing. In fact I am giving the land owner $50,000 that he didn't physically have before.
    As far as not paying for work not ordered, try getting a painting for the cost of the materials.
    What I am doing is called working on speculation. I put the work up front and if I find the Cache I should be paid royaly, but if I don't find the cache, I loose royaly. Would you look at a new house and say I am not paying for the work, I didn't order it. Oil production is done on speculation. lets be realistic, almost everything you buy in the store was made on speculation. Think about it! Frank

  20. #179
    us
    Jul 2009
    Whiting, NJ
    Ace 250
    10,507
    990 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankn
    Calisdad,I am looking for a logical strong alternate opinion, and still am. I have intergrated some good advice I have received here into my plan to form my next move. It will be a real eye opener.

    Frank
    Quote Originally Posted by Frankn
    Twisted one, It doesn't fit. I am selling nothing. The land owner is giving me nothing.
    #1 It appears that you are already considering changing your original strategy on this bad boy I'll assume that you start discussing your past successes and it may be a little late for that. If I were the landowner and now you want to bring your resume, I'd think it was a scam of some sort Perhaps you should have mentioned your successes and had this together before making the first pitch..

    Hmm pitch.. Sounds like a salesman to me

    #2 It's the premise that Twisted one gave that is valid..

    Bottom line is what everyone considers to be a fair offer. I think many as myself believe that the landowner is right is asking for half. Like any negotiation, if you don't agree with the result you either renegotiate, or move to another prospect.

  21. #180
    us
    Mar 2011
    Arkansas
    Fisher F-4
    159
    2 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Offer

    I have read all the responses Frankn, and I agree with
    you and many of the others in certain ways.
    My question is this:
    If you were the landowner in tract 1 or tract 2, what
    would you agree to ?
    I also ask myself this question, and, as a seeker of treasure, I too
    seem to think I would first make an effort to find this cache.
    The first tract of land , which was 9-10 acres, is actually NOT
    a large area to search.
    On the other hand, said landowner could
    avoid the cost of help in searching for it himself by simply accepting your offer, which does
    show a certain degree of logic.
    If landowner 1 is aware, now, that the cache could be on an
    adjacent property, he may find he will have nothing in the long-run.

    I'm just curious what you would do if YOU were the landowner in the first area searched.
    I think I would agree to 1/3, but I would likely follow you around as stated just to see
    what you might find. Interesting subject !

    Please keep us updated on this story.




 

 
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