Forrest Fenn s treasure

[cw0909]

ive been pondering if there is something dif about the hide
spot of the chest in 2010 v if he had hid it and his self
when he thought he was prob going to die

if he had disappeared and went off to die, a few things
would have happened
1. he would have been reported missing
2. his car would eventually been found
3. then a search of the area would be conducted
4. him and his chest would have been found

so yrs later,he hides the chest in this special place.
paraphrasing, unlikely to be found by chance
how can that be, if he had been reported missing,im pretty
sure he would have been found

 

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[USAuPzlBxBob]

General Common Sense Tips for a Straightforward Solve (August 12, 2017)

1. 
   Forrest tells you to read his poem over, and over, and over.
   • He wants you to anticipate a solve.
     • The clues, taken in consecutive order, will take you to the treasure chest, but this is after you have already figured out your solve by trial and error, and successive approximation.
2. He tells you to read the book at least twice.
   • He wants you to be aware of subtleties contained in TTotC, to make keen anything in your mind that may clue you into the way he thinks.
     • So that you can think like him.
     • To imagine where he would have hidden it.
3. Start with “Brown.”
   • This is your lead in, this is to get you close, and then you’re looking for a “where warm waters halt” and a “canyon down” that can be related to the “Brown” you’ve selected.
   • Although your actual solve will begin with “where warm waters halt” and a “canyon down,” “Brown” is the major specific-tie-in for where to focus looking for the remaining minor specific-tie-ins.
   So, this would be a Brown Mountain, a Brown historical figure, a Brown family, a Brown Creek, a Brown Campground, a Brown Cabin, … anything that would be a proper noun Brown. If you take any other tact for interpreting “Brown,” then you’re doing yourself a disservice by not going with the obvious. When you go looking, boots-on-the-ground, and you don’t find the treasure, then it will dawn on you that you shouldn’t have gone down some crazy rabbit-hole solution that you dreamt up, that avoided an obvious approach. Even if you take an obvious approach for each and every clue to finding the Fenn treasure chest, it will still be a daunting challenge to find it. So don’t make it harder on yourself. The reason no one has found it yet is because they have not harnessed each and every clue. So, for example, they got only eight clues to fit. Maybe they got only two clues, misinterpreted the other seven or so clues, and walked right past it.
   
   Also, it would not be Brown trout, because they’re too ubiquitous, and it would not be a fishing hole that he used to fish for Brown trout. He states in TTotC, the Flywater chapter, that:
   
   

   “Those great places, which were personal secrets to me then, are now busy with the flourish of fishermen and women who cast a midge or floating cadis upon those same waters, never knowing I had been there, or even caring yes or no.” This is Forrest telling you, outright, not to look for an old Brown trout fishing hole of his since he would no longer be able to go “alone in there.”​

   
   Another thing, fly fishermen, they like to stay on the move. It’s part of the lure of fly fishing. If you’re on foot, once you make a few casts at one location, then you move on. You’ve spooked the fish, so move on and see what is up around the next bend, and work your way up the canyon. This is because your campsite is a basecamp of activity at which you start, and you go exploring from there until you reach a point up the canyon where the water, for lack of a better word, has come to a “halt.” You just don’t want to hike up any further because the flow of water has lessened and you’re already far enough, if not “too far,” from the comfort that your basecamp affords. But the good news is that when you’re miles away from where you started, it is a downhill hike, an easy hike, back to basecamp.​
4. "Where warm waters halt" and "canyon down."
   • “Where warm waters halt” precedes “canyon down.”
     • That’s the way he wrote the poem, and they come first because they "begin it."
   • Obvious logic implies that the halting waters are high above the canyon that has been carved out below them.
   • The waters are plural.
     • It’s hard to imagine their being any other way.
   Near the top of every canyon are water sources which are little streams that routinely collect rain water. The water gets channeled and begins to noticeably flow.​

   
   So, what would be a “warm” equivalent of this?
   
   A warm equivalent would be where the “box” of the canyon at the top faces to the south, and not the north. The sun would always be warming the water collection there. How the canyon meanders below this upper region doesn’t matter so much. For example, it could bend around and flow north. Not likely, but it could.​
5. The “blaze” will be high above the treasure chest.
   • This is sort of intuitive.
     • The descriptor “quickly down” invites the interpretation of height.
   • However, it will be high above because it will be more easily seen in this way.
     • If you would never see the “blaze” until you were right at the treasure, then what good would it be?
     • And it has to be high enough above any forest below that could possibly obscure it by overgrowing it eventually.
   It also will be a permanent “blaze.” It will be a feature most likely of geological origin. An extremely high pinnacle of rock, an abrupt change in rock color compared to the surroundings, or simply anything abruptly and dramatically vertical that stands out, like a long stretch of a canyon wall with multiple solve cracks that reach its base that tug at your imagination. Whatever it is, it will have you thinking about it for some time as you hike towards it. There are many blazes that can meet at least one of these criteria within The Rockies. It’s part of what makes "the Chase" thee “Chase.” For any given solve location, there may be near countless solves available. It truly may be daunting.
6. "No place for the meek."
   
   Let’s say you’re working your way up a “creek,” boots-on-the-ground now, and you’re adjacent to a “canyon down” that you charted when you planned your approach from the comfort of your home, weeks if not months before. You’ve worked your way up the “creek,” you see something in the distance that strikes your imagination as a potential “blaze,” but when you get alongside the point where you would diverge from the trail, you just don’t like the look of things.
   
   The forest is too dense, the ground is too unwelcoming with scree or overgrowth vegetation. The only thing that would compel anyone to venture into all of this, to go off trail in that direction, to bushwhack so to speak, would be the promise of treasure. That’s exactly what you want to see. You’ll then be earning it.
   
   The treasure chest will not be found out in the open.
   
   Although Forrest goes into detail about how bronze is nonferrous, and therefore withstands the test of time, Forrest has enough respect for the contents of the treasure chest to avoid placing it somewhere where it will get drenched, repeatedly, if not constantly, or maybe even get hit by lightning. He really wants it to stay dry most of the time. There is wood involved, and wood survives much better when not water-soaked. A treasure chest that could fill with water, and never dry out… would fill with water and never dry out.
   
   And it won’t be wedged into too small a space where the outside of the chest would get scratched-up by his own doing. However, he may have concealed the opening of the confine within which he had placed it, maybe walled it in a little, if not completely, though the blaze would then have to be such that it would clue you in to look harder for a concealed location.
7. "Nigh."
   
   Could be a last second “trip up” when at the base of the “blaze.” Inspect areas left and right when there if you’re coming up empty directly below the “quickly down.” It would be a shame to get so close and miss finding the treasure chest at the last second.
8. Some place special to Forrest.
   
   This is the hardest clue to fathom. You have to read TTotC, maybe TFTW, too, and figure this out on your own. For me, I like to imagine that it could be simply a location that he saw from his plane that just really stood out to him for its starkness, its bold relief, its timelessness, and/or its uniqueness and beauty. Forrest said he would sometimes get in his plane and after takeoff he would turn off radio communication, and just fly into the vastness before him. That’s when he would probably really go “alone in there.” Some of the most profound moments in his life occurred to him when flying alone in an aircraft. For example, TTotC, the My War For Me chapter, page 96 and everything beyond until the end of the chapter. Google Maps satellite views, Google Earth views, just roaming around pretending you're Forrest flying his plane, observing The Rockies below, may be the way to go.

So, there you have it. Some pretty good, common sense, advice. No double entendre, no ciphers, no craziness.

The Rockies are challenging enough on their own, and vast enough to keep secret the treasure chest’s whereabouts for… well, possibly forever.

Good luck,

Bob

 

[ecmjamsit]

A lot of newbies have joined recently and all their posts are to bash Forrest Fenn and his treasure. It will be interesting to see if they are contributing members in a year. Maybe the moderators can relegate them to the troll sandbox.

 

[Guanaca]

I searched for it for several years and read every news article available on the man and his colleagues from the 70s on. How about you? I even met him when he signed my books in Santa Fe. Take a tip from one of the other people here and research the Dude and Roundup Motels in West Yellowstone. As far as I can tell the guy never owned them as claimed in Too Far to Walk, there is no room number 4, the sign doesn't spin as claimed, and it is not a 16 room motel as claimed in the online version of this story at bozemandailychronicle.com and it wasn't built in 1962 as he claimed, is was built in 1977 by a guy named Roger Beattie, the same Roger Beattie that still owns it (links to an online version of the story and info about the hotel owner and date founded linked below). I have been to about every place in the search area mentioned in the two books related to the treasure hunt and have metal detected in the areas where it's allowed and have read several of his other over priced books as well in addition to every book mentioned in his. I looked for Osborne Russell's caves too and they don't exist and his "journal" is full of mountain yarns too because the terrain does not match up with his descriptions. Seems Fenn just followed in Osborne Russell's footsteps. Osborne Russell brags about inflating items like coffee and sugar to help inflate the prices of his furs. I'm not one to get on forums or anything but when I hear about people dying because of this nonsense that we all got suckered into I feel I have an obligation to speak up and share just a glimpse of what I've learned. If I were the relative of one of the deceased searchers I'd sue the guy. They can easily prove that the story about the motels is a lie. The measurements from the hotels to the train station aren't even close to accurate. Even if it's not a charity scam or fraud as it seems he and his family are legally liable for the deaths that resulted from spreading false information according to 18 U.S. Code § 1038 - False information and hoaxes.

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.co...cle_39608806-48ee-5656-afa7-28871c9213c3.html

http://www.smallbusinessdb.com/roundup-motel-dude-motor-inn-west-yellowstone-mt-59758.htm

http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Yellowstone-Snow-Tour-Unlmited-406-646-7301

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1038
18 U.S. Code § 1038 - False information and hoaxes

(a) Criminal Violation.—
(1)In general.—Whoever engages in any conduct with intent to convey false or misleading information under circumstances where such information may reasonably be believed and where such information indicates that an activity has taken, is taking, or will take place that would constitute a violation of chapter 2, 10, 11B, 39, 40, 44, 111, or 113B of this title, section 236 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284), or section 46502, the second sentence of section 46504, section 46505(b)(3) or (c), section 46506 if homicide or attempted homicide is involved, or section 60123(b) of title 49, shall—
(A) be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both;
(B) if serious bodily injury results, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both; and
(C) if death results, be fined under this title or imprisoned for any number of years up to life, or both.
(2)Armed forces.—Any person who makes a false statement, with intent to convey false or misleading information, about the death, injury, capture, or disappearance of a member of the Armed Forces of the United States during a war or armed conflict in which the United States is engaged—
(A) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both;
(B) if serious bodily injury results, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both; and
(C) if death results, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned for any number of years or for life, or both.
(b)Civil Action.—
Whoever engages in any conduct with intent to convey false or misleading information under circumstances where such information may reasonably be believed and where such information indicates that an activity has taken, is taking, or will take place that would constitute a violation of chapter 2, 10, 11B, 39, 40, 44, 111, or 113B of this title, section 236 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284), or section 46502, the second sentence of section 46504, section 46505 (b)(3) or (c), section 46506 if homicide or attempted homicide is involved, or section 60123(b) of title 49 is liable in a civil action to any party incurring expenses incident to any emergency or investigative response to that conduct, for those expenses.
(c) Reimbursement.—
(1)In general.—
The court, in imposing a sentence on a defendant who has been convicted of an offense under subsection (a), shall order the defendant to reimburse any state or local government, or private not-for-profit organization that provides fire or rescue service incurring expenses incident to any emergency or investigative response to that conduct, for those expenses.
(2)Liability.—
A person ordered to make reimbursement under this subsection shall be jointly and severally liable for such expenses with each other person, if any, who is ordered to make reimbursement under this subsection for the same expenses.
(3)Civil judgment.—
An order of reimbursement under this subsection shall, for the purposes of enforcement, be treated as a civil judgment.
(d)Activities of Law Enforcement.—
This section does not prohibit any lawfully authorized investigative, protective, or intelligence activity of a law enforcement agency of the United States, a State, or political subdivision of a State, or of an intelligence agency of the United States.

 

[Guanaca]

Here is the article where it says the treasure is worth $5 million and that quotes Fenn as saying that he is going to go get it when the value goes up to $10 million. Seems he is just using the media to drum up demand and turn $250,000 into $10 million. Nobody except his family is ever going to make money off of all this. He showed his cards here and some people still can't believe it.

$5 Million Rocky Mountain Treasure Still Waiting to be Found | HuffPost

 

[USAuPzlBxBob]

For anyone attempting to find intended-deceit within Fenn's books, writings, and interviews, Toby Younis explains, convincingly, how Fenn's accounts of things are "compilations" of memories.

Take this into consideration before you go down a "rabbit-hole" you've created for a solve.

https://youtu.be/zS5r9P5omDQ?t=12m37s

The best way to search for Fenn's treasure is to combine your searching efforts with other recreational pastimes.

Sightseeing, fly fishing, hiking, camping, etc. are typical other activities that can add enjoyment to your "search holiday."

1. Determine your "where warm waters halt"
2. Have a "canyon down" canyon available to explore that fits your research
3. Determine a "blaze" onsite by/with boots-on-the-ground
4. Keep things within reason based on what an eighty-year-old man could carry out
   • For hiding 42 pounds of weight
     • By making two trips in one afternoon lugging around 21 pounds each time
   • After getting close, by driving a sedan, to his treasure chest placement location

It's that easy, and that enjoyable.

You'll have a fun time looking for the treasure and doing other things, and just maybe you'll get lucky and find it.

If not, so what… get over it.

 

[ecmjamsit]

How does the Fenn treasure even remotely relate to the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 ? Seriously, four posts and you are reading us the law? This Federal law is about nuclear materials and its processing, not treasure hunting.

I searched for it for several years and read every news article available on the man and his colleagues from the 70s on. How about you? I even met him when he signed my books in Santa Fe. Take a tip from one of the other people here and research the Dude and Roundup Motels in West Yellowstone. As far as I can tell the guy never owned them as claimed in Too Far to Walk, there is no room number 4, the sign doesn't spin as claimed, and it is not a 16 room motel as claimed in the online version of this story at bozemandailychronicle.com and it wasn't built in 1962 as he claimed, is was built in 1977 by a guy named Roger Beattie, the same Roger Beattie that still owns it (links to an online version of the story and info about the hotel owner and date founded linked below). I have been to about every place in the search area mentioned in the two books related to the treasure hunt and have metal detected in the areas where it's allowed and have read several of his other over priced books as well in addition to every book mentioned in his. I looked for Osborne Russell's caves too and they don't exist and his "journal" is full of mountain yarns too because the terrain does not match up with his descriptions. Seems Fenn just followed in Osborne Russell's footsteps. Osborne Russell brags about inflating items like coffee and sugar to help inflate the prices of his furs. I'm not one to get on forums or anything but when I hear about people dying because of this nonsense that we all got suckered into I feel I have an obligation to speak up and share just a glimpse of what I've learned. If I were the relative of one of the deceased searchers I'd sue the guy. They can easily prove that the story about the motels is a lie. The measurements from the hotels to the train station aren't even close to accurate. Even if it's not a charity scam or fraud as it seems he and his family are legally liable for the deaths that resulted from spreading false information according to 18 U.S. Code § 1038 - False information and hoaxes.

How 'The Dude' came to West Yellowstone | Community Notes | bozemandailychronicle.com

Roundup Motel Dude Motor Inn - West Yellowstone, MT 59758 | Small Business Database

http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Yellowstone-Snow-Tour-Unlmited-406-646-7301

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1038
18 U.S. Code § 1038 - False information and hoaxes

(a) Criminal Violation.—
(1)In general.—Whoever engages in any conduct with intent to convey false or misleading information under circumstances where such information may reasonably be believed and where such information indicates that an activity has taken, is taking, or will take place that would constitute a violation of chapter 2, 10, 11B, 39, 40, 44, 111, or 113B of this title, section 236 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284), or section 46502, the second sentence of section 46504, section 46505(b)(3) or (c), section 46506 if homicide or attempted homicide is involved, or section 60123(b) of title 49, shall—
(A) be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both;
(B) if serious bodily injury results, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both; and
(C) if death results, be fined under this title or imprisoned for any number of years up to life, or both.
(2)Armed forces.—Any person who makes a false statement, with intent to convey false or misleading information, about the death, injury, capture, or disappearance of a member of the Armed Forces of the United States during a war or armed conflict in which the United States is engaged—
(A) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both;
(B) if serious bodily injury results, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both; and
(C) if death results, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned for any number of years or for life, or both.
(b)Civil Action.—
Whoever engages in any conduct with intent to convey false or misleading information under circumstances where such information may reasonably be believed and where such information indicates that an activity has taken, is taking, or will take place that would constitute a violation of chapter 2, 10, 11B, 39, 40, 44, 111, or 113B of this title, section 236 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284), or section 46502, the second sentence of section 46504, section 46505 (b)(3) or (c), section 46506 if homicide or attempted homicide is involved, or section 60123(b) of title 49 is liable in a civil action to any party incurring expenses incident to any emergency or investigative response to that conduct, for those expenses.
(c) Reimbursement.—
(1)In general.—
The court, in imposing a sentence on a defendant who has been convicted of an offense under subsection (a), shall order the defendant to reimburse any state or local government, or private not-for-profit organization that provides fire or rescue service incurring expenses incident to any emergency or investigative response to that conduct, for those expenses.
(2)Liability.—
A person ordered to make reimbursement under this subsection shall be jointly and severally liable for such expenses with each other person, if any, who is ordered to make reimbursement under this subsection for the same expenses.
(3)Civil judgment.—
An order of reimbursement under this subsection shall, for the purposes of enforcement, be treated as a civil judgment.
(d)Activities of Law Enforcement.—
This section does not prohibit any lawfully authorized investigative, protective, or intelligence activity of a law enforcement agency of the United States, a State, or political subdivision of a State, or of an intelligence agency of the United States.

 

[Guanaca]

How does the Fenn treasure even remotely relate to the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 ? Seriously, four posts and you are reading us the law? This Federal law is about nuclear materials and its processing, not treasure hunting.

The OR words in the law quoted are very important and 18 U.S. Code § 1038 has lots of them. You picked out one out of many terms that applies to the law, one that has nothing to do with where the law applies to this particular situation. That law is written to cover many, many types of hoaxes and false information. You are here defending someone who made a living off of selling forgeries and that is his big secret. Wolfgang Pogzeba was Forrest Fenn's business partner and was a forger. Fenn would buy the estates of famous painters, J. H. Sharp, Nicolai Fechin, then Pogzeba would paint using the styles of these painters and others and would put whatever name they wanted on them. The Joseph Henry Sharp paintings were all produced from pictures Sharp had taken, they are all modern forgeries which is obvious by the colors used in the paintings. Fenn would write books full of half truths about Pogzeba's forged paintings then they'd sell them and split the profits. Hints to this are all over the books. Pretending toast with jam is pie (pretending fakes were real), the reference to Elmor de Hory in the second book who was a known forger and there are even hints to this in old news articles from the 1970s and 1980s where Fenn says he started by running a forge in his house and says that what difference does it make if something is real. If you like it then found out it is fake later then you are the phony. It's all there in the books and in old news articles. The whole thing is about art forgery. You should read the "Art of the Con: The Most Notorious Fakes, Frauds, and Forgeries in the Art World" because it explains this stuff further and is highly relevant and is what this is about. The art and artifacts world is full of fakes and that is how Fenn made his money. F for Fake by Orson Welles also covers the subject of forgery. Even Indiana Jones is a reference to it. The last Indiana Jones movie is about crystal skulls and passing the torch to someone else. Well, research crystal skulls and you'll see they were fake and planted aka salted by people just like Fenn would do with fake artifacts at his San Lazaro Pueblo. He'd bury fakes then dig them up later after they weathered to give the right patina then would pretend they were real. Look at the chest, it's not 15th century as claimed. Something 500 years old is not going to look like it is in perfect condition. Research double eagles and Omega man, the person who faked a bunch of them, because that is another clue since Fenn says double eagles are in the chest and he put the Omega signs at the end. The clues are everywhere. He said his childhood bully made him smell his olive jar then goes on to say that hid his life stories in an olive jar in the chest to hint that he became a bully and that is how he got rich. Think Neal Caffrey from the show White Collar or Frank Abagnale from Catch Me if You Can. At this point it's all been spelled out for you and if you can't see it I don't know what else to tell you. It's like the Prestige movie where a guy wastes his whole life trying to figure out someone's secret when it was simple the whole time. He was using a double, a duplicate. That's the same thing that is going on here. You searchers are wasting time trying to figure out something that is easy. It's about deception, lying, and forgeries and his family knows this and are in on it. Clearly you want to believe, you want to be fooled, you want to be a sheep.

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."
-Mark Twain

"You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
-Abraham Lincoln

For those that are coming to terms with the truth as I had to do myself, I am sorry you got taken advantage of and mislead. This whole thing was a mean thing to do to people. Fenn and his family and associates have hurt a lot of people that cared for them and sold out their morals for money and fame and that is very sad. You all deserve better than this.

 

[ecmjamsit]

Seriously, Fenn is protected by the First Amendment. No laws were broken. I can write a book about anything I want, I can worship any God I want. I can complain to any government official I want. Your interpretations of the law are completely baseless in case law. Cite one case where treasure hunting applies to 18 U.S.C. § 1038

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

First Amendment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threatening_terrorism_against_the_United_States

" False information and hoaxes pertaining to attacks on U.S. officials, government buildings, airplanes, etc. are also punishable under 18 U.S.C. § 1038as a class D felony, which is punishable by 5 years imprisonment."

 

[Guanaca]

The "thrill of the chase" is about the thrill of crime and being chased by law enforcement. Get it folks? The guy is running a confidence trick.

There are many limits to the first amendment. In this case it's called fraud and it is a crime. He lied and made money off his lies. He also said the money was going to help people with cancer yet he is not registered as a charity in the state of New Mexico or with the federal government so he is not legally allowed to collect money for charitable purposes. The only person with cancer known to have been helped through all this was helped through a raffle, not book proceeds. Then where has the money from book sales gone? According to book sales records he should have generated around 1 to 2 million dollars with the two books. If you lie and it causes financial or physical harm as a result it is illegal regardless of the first amendment. I'll look further into the federal law quoted above but even if it doesn't apply fraud definitely does. You can't lie about collecting money for charitable purposes or lie or perpetuate a hoax that causes people to die as a result, that is illegal and he and others that helped perpetuate it are legally responsible and liable.

Fraud - FindLaw

"While the exact wording of fraud charges varies among state and federal laws. the essential elements needed to prove a fraud claim in general include: (1) a misrepresentation of a material fact; (2) by a person or entity who knows or believes it to be false; (3) to a person or entity who justifiably relies on the misrepresentation; and (4) actual injury or loss resulting from his or her reliance."

"Penalties for fraud offenses may include criminal penalties, civil penalties, or both. Most criminal fraud offenses are considered felony crimes and are punishable by jail, fines, probation, or all of the above."

Another federal law...
http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter47&edition=prelim
18 USC Ch. 47: FRAUD AND FALSE STATEMENTS
From Title 18—CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
§1001. Statements or entries generally
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;

shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both. If the matter relates to an offense under chapter 109A, 109B, 110, or 117, or section 1591, then the term of imprisonment imposed under this section shall be not more than 8 years.

New Mexico Definition of Fraud. According to section 30-16-6 of New Mexico statutes, fraud is deliberately deceiving and manipulating someone in order to take something valuable that belongs to that person.

Charity Fraud
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charity_fraud
Charity fraud is the act of using deception to get money from people who believe they are making donations to charities. Often a person or a group of people will make material representations that they are a charity or part of a charity and ask prospective donors for contributions to the non-existent charity. Charity fraud not only includes fictitious charities but also deceitful business acts. Deceitful business acts include businesses accepting donations and not using the money for its intended purposes.

 

[ecmjamsit]

You still have not cited one case.

 

[Guanaca]

You still have not cited one case.

Congrats, you win the pointless comment award!

You've got nothing? As I've shown, the guy is a blatant liar and a fraud and I've shown several laws that would apply proving that he is NOT protected by the first amendment as you claimed and it's just a matter of which laws prosecutors would decide to use to prosecute him. I don't know why you want to defend a man who has lied to everyone and gotten people killed as a result. The money is only flowing one direction here...to Forrest Fenn through book sales. It's a charity scam disguised as a treasure hunt and it's a ruse to inflate the value of the chest, it's contents, and other items he has so his family can profit on it. If you still "believe" that this is still a treasure hunt and not a scam to make money for him and his family then I don't know what else to tell you.

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."
-Mark Twain

 

[DaSeeker]

In the TV show Longmire, Season 5 Episode 7 "From this Day Forward" they parody the treasure hunt and show poor, stupid people looking for it and say it was designed to kill people. It kind of made me mad when I saw it. I'm starting to think the writers know something we don't. It was filmed in Santa Fe after all so maybe the writers consulted Fenn for that episode. The show has a poem and everything and they say nobody that knew the guy who hid the treasure believed he actually did it (same as the Fenn treasure). Fenn has been trying to get people to search in Yellowstone and has told people in emails that when he was younger they would all feed the bears and they are harmless and said they'd bathe in the river and some of the pools which sounds crazy because the water temps are hot enough to kill people and they are very acidic. There is that Death in Yellowstone book written in the 1990s so maybe that was his plan, lure people in the backcountry to tragedy. News articles say he had been emailing Eric Ashby before his death too so I wonder what kind of stuff he was coaxing Ashby into doing. I don't think he cares at all about the people that have died looking for it which seems strange. If he has been emailing Ashby you'd think he'd care about what happened to him if he were a normal person. Maybe there is a sinister motive here.

 

[ecmjamsit]

So all you can do is fling insults. Pathetic troll. Legally you are guilty of defamation. Go spew your vitriol some place else.

Congrats, you win the pointless comment award!

You've got nothing? As I've shown, the guy is a blatant liar and a fraud and I've shown several laws that would apply proving that he is NOT protected by the first amendment as you claimed and it's just a matter of which laws prosecutors would decide to use to prosecute him. I don't know why you want to defend a man who has lied to everyone and gotten people killed as a result. The money is only flowing one direction here...to Forrest Fenn through book sales. It's a charity scam disguised as a treasure hunt and it's a ruse to inflate the value of the chest, it's contents, and other items he has so his family can profit on it. If you still "believe" that this is still a treasure hunt and not a scam to make money for him and his family then I don't know what else to tell you.

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."
-Mark Twain

 

[Guanaca]

It is not defamation because what I posted is true. I have spent years on this. Research it, check the links I posted and check the property records for West Yellowstone. It is a fact that the Fenns never owned the Dude and Roundup Motels as claimed and the info in the story about the motels and some of his other stories are not even close to being factually correct and are blatant lies. Charles Karl Simpson, his grandfather (whose birth name was Charles Karl McElwain) who was a vaudeville performer, did own a lot in West Yellowstone at one time and you can obtain a copy of the land grant from the BLM online but it was near where the Yellowstone Cabins and RV Park is now, not where the motels are. I'm sorry some people think my posting facts like this is trolling, that is not my intent. I only hope to share a glimpse of what I have uncovered through countless hours of research and dozens of trips in the search area with others. It was hard for me to come to terms with the truth and I can see it is very hard for others to accept as well.

 

[Guanaca]

Here is an article about him selling forgeries, published in People Magazine Volume 25 Number 23 on June 9, 1986. One of many clues pointing to forgeries and deception I have uncovered in my years of research on this.

Rivals Scorn His Santa Fe Gallery, but Forrest Fenn Baskets the Cash
Fenn’s collection of fine fakes (owned in partnership with Texas’ ex-Gov. John Connally) is the work of the late master forger Elmyr de Hory, who fooled many an expert in his time. But why sell phonies? Says Fenn: “If you love it less when you see the signature who now is the fake?”

 

[Guanaca]

Thanks for your kind words Sandy, it means a lot. It broke my heart when I uncovered the truth. I hate being the bearer of bad news but feel others deserve to know. I posted similar factual info on other forums related to the treasure hunt but it was promptly deleted by Fenn's friends that run the sites so I am glad the moderators allow a thorough discussion about it here.

 

[DaSeeker]

I was reading another news article about Eric Ashby, the treasure hunter that died recently, and in the comments someone referenced a quote from Fenn about Randy Bilyeu, the first treasure Hunter to die and apparently Fenn hired a private investigator to stalk Bilyeu's ex-wife (creepy). There is a lot more in the link below. The guy is starting to sound like a pychopath.

"Why do you want to find Randy? Just let him be. He died doing what he loved to do. You will never find him. Maybe in 100 years his bones will be found!" (Forrest Fenn)

"I often wonder how you sleep at night. Do you have a conscious? Do you care that treasure hunters risk their lives to search for your hoax? Do you care that my daughters and granddaughters lost their father and grandfather? Do you care that treasure hunters have lost lives, lost their jobs, gone bankrupt, families have become estranged, divorces have occurred, suicides have been attempted and some have succeeded. All for what? For self-glorification.
For your information, hiring a private detective to befriend me and stalk me did not in any way scare me off." (Linda Bilyeu)

Forrest Fenn's $2M Treasure Is a Hoax, Says Ex of Man Who Died Looking for It | Westword

 

[F4Fake]

This article is a good read and everyone who fell victim to the fenn treasure hunt should read it.

Why We All Fall for Con Artists

 

[Msbeepbeep]

I'd rather have the truth than a lie any day!