Gold Washington Dollar cache: clue inquiry

[TheSleeper]

ok severial questions:

1. the wagon was found approx. a half mile away from the Inn in a field the next morning
2. Reports say it was never found although over the past forty years several dollars have been found near streams known as the Salmon Brook


Was the location the wagon was found before or after the streams?

If after the streams then possibly the wagon was racing though the streams in there attempted getaway and due to roughness some were jostled out into the stream.

If before the stream, possibly the stream holds the key, depending on how many and how close together the ones found were in relationship to each other.Wagon goes to area near stream items buried wagon returns to area away from cache site.

3. wagons were slow esp carring wooded boxes or casks of gold, a time frame if u could find one would help between when holdup was and wagon was found
4. wagon was found 1/2 mile from Inn, how far is the stream from that location

If the stream is futher from the inn then the location the wagon was found, possibly cache was hidden wagon was returned to location to throw off finding.

Alot of varibles here, take one varation plot it out research it if it fails plot out another reasearch so on and so on wash rinse repeat.

Without knowing the lay of the land or any other research:
1.gold is stolen, wagon and team head out fast pace, due to speed in getaway bouncing on road etc, possibly one cask, box either rattles open or is broke, crossing stream at speed some is dumped into stream.
2.gold is stolen, wagon and team head to stream bank cache is bured nearby team is driven back to location and left away from drop site.

Other varibles:
1. Was the wagon and team the orginal team used to haul the gold, if it was they would be tired and not able to run along distance.
2. Were they persued, hard to believe a gold shipment could be taken and not persued.
3. Wagons with gold loaded were heavy, they leave tracks.
4. The area the wagon was found were there additional tracks found: meaning cache split up onto severial different mounts or another wagon waiting.

Alot of different varibles alot of researching, have fun and good luck.

 

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[TreasureTales]

Surely something this daring and audacious would have been reported in a newspaper. You have 3 possibilities, as I see it. You could get lucky and find a newspaper from the area that mentions the robbery. You could find a British newspaper that relates the story. Or you could find a French newspaper that discussed the event. This would be an international news story since it was during the Revolutionary War and since it involved French coins. I suspect a British archives would be able to assist you via email.

Diaries from the locals might mention something about it since it must have been a topic of gossip and people must have speculated who would/could have done it.

I wonder if there were any French coins showing up in Canada shortly after the robbery. Has anybody on this forum ever found, or does anyone know of, any gold French coins minted in 1779 or earlier being found in Canada? The loyalists to the British crown fled to Canada after the war ended. Some of them may have taken the booty with them. If an inordinate number of French gold coins suddenly appeared in Canada, that would have been big news, too. Another possibility for a newspaper story and therefore another step forward in authenticating the story.

The stream is the key. It either impeded the wagon's progress. Or it was the cache site. Or it was both. Some of the coins were found in the stream throughout the years. The stream was both a problem and the solution for the robbers. That's my intuitive guess!!! LOL Geez, I could almost believe me.

Good Luck, and please continue to keep us updated.

 

[Desert Rat]

That much Gold would leave some deep wagon tracks. It would be like throwing 3 or 4 engine blocks in the back of the wagon. Folks in those days were expert trackers; as it was a commonly used skill and known by all. Just a riderless horse is distinguishable from a riden animal . The original investigators/pursuers would have instantly picked up on the wagons tracks being no longer burdened by the Gold, and hence been able to determine where it was unloaded. This leaves us with 1) innaccurate details of account, 2)The pursuers and investigators were accomplists, part, 3) The amount of Gold in the original story has been greatly exagerated with every telling of the story. If the gold was dumped in the creek as the thieves crossed it, the tracks would have been blatantly obvious where they left the creek. It might be likely that the original size of the booty was under 100 pounds, which a man could express away on horse back. The tracks are the key!

 

[Skrimpy]

Well...the only way to find out is to get the detectors to the ground. Get your humps out there in the spring. Need any help...I am not too far away from CT. I'll bring the beer.

 

[DDEXPII]

I'm with skrimpy hit it hard in the spring. he got the beer i got the food I'm too not to far away from ct I'm in Ma what you need is a ultrasound earth imager 8)

 

[Wildfirefighter72]

If it were me back then I'd of had another wagon, two or three waiting. Split the load up and ditch the Original wagon...

 

[audigger53]

First thoughts.
They drove the wagon to the stream and unloded it there to horses.
The stream would cover the tracks of the horses fairly quickly.
The wagon is then driven on for a ways and abandoned.
The horses either went up stream or down stream with the gold.

So where did the coins show up in relation to the inn and the wagon being parked?
Up stream or down stream?

Who lived up stream of that area and who lived down stream. Were any of them British supporters?

Just ideas for starting your research.

 

[mkalinowski]

I may be new to this but I have been researching this also. The coins were minted in England and were being transported from Boston the Philly. Outside of bates tavern the guards were killed by having their throats slit. There were only 4 of them the horses were hooked dup to the wagons and drove out of town slowly to no create any noise after that the treasure was buried next to a stream and the horses and buggies were found the next morning in a farmer’s field. The group who stole the money agreed to meet sometime later to get the gold out of the ground well after 2 weeks of searching by the army they gave up and returned to Boston, a month later the group decided to meet in a field one night when they did they were all killed by Indians but one who escaped by crawling out of the field. After a month he was going to go get some of the gold but got caught stealing a cow from a neighbor after 6 months in jail he escaped going o England through Boston after he got there he sent a letter to his mother telling of the whole story but was very veg on where the treasure was buried. Since then 5 coins have been found outside of Granby area. I do believe this story is true and will be looking for it this spring. Sorry for bad spelling I am at work.

 

[snappy]

I think the number of coins must be off if 2,000,000 coins even at small sizes (current nickel) it would take about 6 coins for an oz or about 70 for a pound or around 28,600 lbs for 2 million coins

wagons could take a load of about half a ton. or 28-29 wagons would be needed just to move it.

 

[mkalinowski]

The amount of gold carried by the 14 wagons is 11 to 13 chests that is what i have been able to find out from several sources

 

[geo4472]

first find out the spot where the coins were found .then look up stream for any sings of where the river bank might have gave way because of heavy rain,fast moving water due to rain and check areas like that it might have been buried there because the soil might have been easier to dig in .maybe by a tree close to the river (they could of used a tree as a marker) good luck

 

[Copperhead]

Hey all, found this thread and since I'm from CT it peaked my interest Did a little searching and found a few things. I'm not on either side of the fence here, just posting some info I found.
1. This I copy and pasted from some other thread :

REGARDING THE EAST GRANBY TREASURE

The article GOLD CACHE is wrong. FLOYD: "I hope you print my story, because many of your readers made comments and are wasting their time and money looking for it."

Here we go again. I am 64 years old and have lived in Connecticut for most of my life. I became a coin collector in 1964. After seeing many ads for metal detectors in COIN WORLD, I bought a Whites detector and that got it all started. Since that time, including the latest LOST TREASURE magazine, I had read the story of 13 wagon loads of gold coin loaned from France that got robbed at Bates Tavern. Unlike many authors, I did a lot of research, including interviewing William Bates, who was an old man. He, like many people, is a story teller. He told me the story was true and that the boxes were buried near a stream, because the digging was easy.
Years later I spoke to his son-in-law who lives in the tavern, with his wife. He had to be in his sixties. I asked him if William really believed the story. He told me that the Bates had never heard of the story until they read the letters from a woman to the Hartford Cournat newspaper in 1951.
Remember: Captain Lemuel Bates died at 91 years of age. I hope to live that long. He lived in the tavern until he died. That means he would tell his children, who would tell their children the story. Most people believe that stories in treasure magazines are false. The coins were never found, and never will be, because the story is false. The treasure story writer for LOST TREASURE magazine states that Richard H. Phelps wrote a book claiming that Henry Wooster, a Tori, was involved and wrote a letter to his mother stating that he had helped rob the wagons with the coins. Wrong ! Phelps, who lived in East Granby, never mentioned that story. He wrote that Henry had robbed a house, with his friends, and went to England and came back after the war. The article in the magazine also states " in 1951 a Hartford woman wrote a series of articles about the heist." If the story was true,then it would have been in the local papers at the time. I also asked a woman who lived in East Granby all of her life, why she didn't write about the treasure in her East Granby history book. She said the story was false. If you find the coins, just send me a picture. Every time the story is printed, many new people show up at Bates Tavern looking for the treasure. You would think that someone would have found the coins since 1951---if the story was true. I'd be grateful if anyone has any true stories of treasure in Connecticut. Best of luck to you all.

2. This is a link to an article I found mentioning the above Henry Wooster. Interesting reading whether you believe the story of the treasure or not.

http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1967/2/1967_2_40.shtml

Good luck.

 

[TreasureTales]

Good research, Dino. That's what treasure hunting - especially cache hunting - is all about. The primary sources for information are usually the most accurate. Since the local papers (the primary sources) at the time didn't mention this supposed gold coin heist, then we can all pretty much put this story to rest. No gold coins to be found. End of story.

 

[tommyl]

I don't see anything stated that absolutely ensures the gold coins do not exist and that this story is hogwash. lots of good reasons why the story is not visible in 1779, 1780, or beyond.

Did you ever think that Bates was in on it and because there were soldiers killed he couldn't tell family for fear of being frowned upon?

I don't care if it is $2MM or $200k, I believe something happened and something is yet to be found.

Why:
1. If people already found a coin or two then Bingo...one great fact.
2. East Granby did not exist in 1779. Simsbury did which covered that area, so research needs to change paths a bit
3. Why would a story not be front page? Embarrassment, or at the very least it could have been a highly secret shipment that very few knew about.
4. People in high places (or that were in on it) kept it quiet.
5. France did financially support George in the revolution at that time. I have documentation of this.
6. Henry Wooster means nothing. He is a name picked that probably existed but I believe meaningless to this search.
7. The key to me is what and who existed in 1779 in that area and the search expands from there.
Have Fun and Thanks
Tom

 

[Copperhead]

Hey tom, It is an interesting story. Can you give anymore info about the coins that were found. How long ago?, I could not find anything but would be interested in reading about the finds. If you can't say, I understand. Thanks.

 

[tommyl]

From what i have read, in 1944 a hiker found one in a stream. Called it a Washington dollar. In 1958 three more were supposedly found near a brook and they were supposedly identified as Washington dollars. In 1987 one more was found by a woman and it was identified as a Washington dollar. it also was near a branch of a stream.

These accounts were all found in a book written by WC Jameson. Unfortunately, many of his reference materials came from Lost Treasure magazine. Some were from other treasure lore books, written as far back as 1951.

I read somewhere, that richard Phelps oldest book had inclusions of the story and Henry Wooster in there. The book was written in the 1800'S and supposedly a copy is in the Enfield CT library which I plan on viewing soon.

A good area of research I believe is following up on articles etc on the found coins.
Tom

 

[starsplitter]

I am enjoying this strand. It is intriguing. Whatever roads you explore, focus on primary sources. All this treasure story to treasure story stuff is a waste of time (in my humble opinion). I think that when a writer is telling a story, he is telling a story. The facts can be rationalized, and if my research is any indication... they usually are.

 

[relicmanCt]

Ok. Great story and very exciting especially living less than 20 miles from the site. One question: has anyone ever seen a picture of these coins. Can't find them anywhere.Also, just getting permission to hunt some fields around the stream would be great. Who knows there might even be a Higley Copper out there. or some of those coins might have been dropped in the hurry.Iv'e fished the stream as a teenager many times. some of th banks are high. The must have been old bridges that crossed it at one time. Also the stream i'm sure has changed directions since then.

 

[Copperhead]

Hey relicman, I'm sure some are not happy seeing new posts with no new info, but what can I say, it's snowing and I got the day off. I'm still searching for more info on the coins found, but so far nothing. If the story is that one was found as recently as 1987, there's got to be some info out there. The only recent? trail to followup on is from the thread I posted before about Bates and some letters he supposedly read in the Hartford Courant from 1951. They have an archive search available(for a fee) via email. Not going that route unless I'm in the area to search in person. I'm hoping for Tom to post some new info on his research. Good Luck.

 

[goldenrulefarm]

for a very long time, I could not response to this web site about the Rev. War 13 wagon loads of gold dollars. Now, look out. You may want to read my story in this web site newsletter of Feb. 15. The story is false. There was no mention in the Hartford Courant newspaper back then, or any local history books, written by local people. Captain Bates lives to be 91 years old. His family still live there in the sixes. The Bates family never heard of the story until they read the lady letters in the Hartford Courant in 1951. I been a coin collector and a treasure hunter since 1964. These coins were never minted, and that is why I am willing pay for pictures of the front and the back of the coins for $100.00. I don't have any takers. People out west save money to go treasure hunting in the East. People in the East save money to go treasure hunting in the west. There are treasure hunters in every states. Don't state that that there are coins, that you never saw.