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Thread: Pirate Treasure-Civil War Cooking Pots Full of Gold

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  1. #41
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    White 808, White Sierra Made, pulse induction, LRL
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    Personally if it was us we would survey that whole property and see if any of the other targets were easier to get to. Sometimes you just have to get the ones you can get and leave a few behind.

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  3. #42
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    I'm a little short on the survey equipment. Even if I rented/borrowed it I don't really know how to use it and that is the key. The supposed/proposed targets are within a 100' X 150' area. Three dowsers, two element detectors, and one hybrid element/LRL detector all said the same spot on one of the targets. I do not want to start a dig unless we can pinpoint the depth and the EXACT spot to dig. Although Florida is mostly sandy, easy to dig soil, water is almost always the problem.

    The North Carolina dig is mostly red clay/dirt and water intrusion is not an issue. The problem on three of the possible pots was trees and tree roots. The other possible pot was an easy dig but because of rain and other problems that day, we stopped. One of the people involved was being very difficult to deal with and we thought it would be best to postpone the dig for a week. Something unforseen happened and it has taken two years to get back to where we are now about ready to try again. I believe I know the exact spot on one pot but would like to use electronics to pinpoint the other three.
    You can lead a man to treasure but you can't make him dig.

  4. #43
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdogdad View Post
    1. Anyone reading this needs to understand that ECS and I have gone back and forth about this on numerous threads and forums. I can assume that he gets all his "facts" from things he reads written by others. 2. ECS thinks he knows for a fact exactly how much gold was in the Confederacy he is a little on the naive side. 3. As the armies on both sides of the Civil War plundered the south, vast sums of gold, silver and jewels were bound to have been taken from the rich land owners of the plantations, business owners, and anyone else that got in the way of these "soldiers". As with all things there are records to a certain extent.





    4. ECS- Keep up the research but don't think for a second that you will change my mind about anything.
    1. Where do you,BDD get your facts and knowledge of buried treasure if not from books?How do you know that the 20 pots of gold event actually happened?
    2. The records of the CSA Treasury exist to this day and can be researched.
    3. Yes,plantation owners buried their money and looting was common during the War of Northern Aggression,and there would be no records of these events, and may still be in the ground waiting to be found,but...the 20 iron pots of gold is an alleged CSA military operation which would have documentation.On the other NC pot of gold thread,there are three examples of documented lost gold accounts,and the flight and capture of the CSA Treasury from Richmond is well documented.
    4. I am not trying to change you mind,just providing a historical factual context to your claims for events that actually happened and others that are only lore or legends.

  5. #44
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    ECS-I don't know for a FACT that the pots of gold story is completely true. I do believe my old pal Ovid could find gold. This was the last location that I took him to right before he died. Maybe I am wasting my time, but that is my problem not yours.

    Although you seem to be very good at finding information and cut and pasting, I don't think you really read and understand all that you post. I will give you a few examples.

    On post #51 of the NC Pot of gold thread, the post seems to confirm the existence of these pots and that some of them seem to have been found. He also wants you to read between the lines as he is obviously not giving out all the information that he has. I would think that most people reading this post (which you reposted just for me) would come away thinking there is possibly some truth to this story.

    You have repeatedly referred to some pots coming from Mississipi. I believe you have confused the facts as you have done in the past. The story goes that the pots were hidden by Company C of the Fourth Mississipi unit. The story goes that they were stationed in Richmond Virginia in the fall of 1864 when the pots were shipped out and buried. In other words the guys doing the burying were from Mississipi but the pots were from Richmond. I do not know if you have read W.C. Jameson's account of this story but he lists a lot of names and details. Is it possible that he made it all up? I really couldn't tell you it is all exactly as history happened.

    As far as point #3, Jameson's account seems to be from some sort of documentation. Where did he get his "facts"? Couldn't tell you.

    As far as lore goes, by definition there is nothing about the term that implies it is not true. As far as the definition of a legend, it is a story that is thought to be historical, again nothing that implies it is not true. I will stick to my legends and lore, thank you.

    You seem to think you are finding facts that back up what you want to hear. So far everytime you have tried to make me look like I don't know what I am talking about, I seem to prove you wrong. Why do you feel the need to try to talk me out of treasure hunting?
    You can lead a man to treasure but you can't make him dig.

  6. #45
    ECS
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    You seem to have the misconception,BDD,that I am trying to prove you wrong or talk you out of treasure hunting.If that were the case,why would I have posted # 51 on the other thread? You always take umbrage when facts or comments do not agree with your perception of things.
    The Richmond version,in my opinion,on the 20 pots,seems to have been morphed from the Dannville Confederate treasure & baggage train event that happened.
    The Mississippi as the origin of the shipment is another version.
    This tale does have several other variations,like so many treasure stories.They ALL can not be TRUE!
    Diaries and journals from the Civil War period do provide a great source of information.
    This Week in Georgia Civil War History has a Georgia belle's diary account of the Washington ,Ga Confederate treasury event.Pay attention to the May 24,25,26 entries.
    An overview of the CSA treasury flight and amounts:
    The Search for Lost Confederate Gold
    Another concerning the stopover in Charlotte,NC
    Charlotte: Last Capital of the Confederacy
    Detailed Civil War RR maps can found at THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS-Geography and Map Division-Entries 137-143.

  7. #46
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    ECS-Thanks for all the info. What does it have to do with this thread? All seems pretty much irrelevant. This is all reminding me of your input on the Swamp Gold thread. I am going to dig for the pots. Maybe I will be wasting my time, money and energy. You are trying your best to burst my bubble.

    The RR tracks were laid before the Civil War. They are still in the same location. At most the RR company owns 100' from the center of the track in some locations. I think it is less at my site. The dig spots are out of the RR companies range.

    The bottom line is that I trust my old dowser. He proved his abilities in many ways. I know what I saw. ECS is wasting his time. By his line of reasoning ALL old stories, legends and lore are probably not worth pursuing. I wonder how many threads he goes on telling people they don't know what their talking about? He can't seem to get it through his head that I am convinced I have been led to gold and I am not concerned about the different variations or details of how it might have gotten there. I am smart enough to know that all of this is a big gamble and the odds are against me. When I am too old to go out and dig at least I will be able to say I tried. I will feel better about that than if I had some faceless pessimist talk me out of it just because it might not be there.
    You can lead a man to treasure but you can't make him dig.

  8. #47
    us
    Jul 2012
    GA
    White 808, White Sierra Made, pulse induction, LRL
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    Well if you have that many detectors telling you at least one spot and all the targets are supposed to be in a 100' X 150' area then I would just hit the whole area with a pulse induction unit wth a 40 inch antenna. That will detect down at least 20 ft or more. Thats what we use. Or a twobox which will go about 15 ft. If you get a signal you can start bumping up agains't the edges of the target and get a general idea of the shape. If its a pot its going to be round etc. Then pinpoint it with a deepseeking metal detecor. They are only good down to 5ft. So if you get a signal you will know the target is pretty shallow. The key to this stuff is that you have to have the equipment. If you think you are looking at iron cookpots with coins the chances are they are not more than 3-6ft deep tops. You and a friend coul dig them up by yourselves with shovels.

    If it was me and I had permission to be on the property I would just ease out there with one person I really trusted and pinpoint those targets and mark them and then just dig up what I could and then split it with the property owner and give something to the other person. Those communal digs usually turn into a fiasco. I could write a book about one my fiancee' was involved in a couple of years ago. He will never do that again.

  9. #48
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    Anybody want to come to a site in Florida and bring their pulse induction unit with a 40 inch coil? The Florida pirate treasure site is about 110 miles south of Tampa. It is next to a restaurant on a busy road. It CANNOT be dug secretively but I do have permission to dig. It has to be dug with equipment. I think it was buried pretty deep, sunk some, and has a 4 foot mound of septic field on top of it. We believe there are multiple treasure chests. Any takers?

    The other site is in central North Carolina. This dig will be very low key. Once we start the locals know what we are doing. We will stay on the site and see it through. I need a good magnetometer and pulse induction unit and someone that talks less than me to operate them. Any takers?
    You can lead a man to treasure but you can't make him dig.

  10. #49

    Feb 2008
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    It seems from your posts that you give up easily. Rain, unforeseen problems, something always happens to make you
    give up and leave. Maybe subconciencely you don't really want to see what's at the bottom of the hole. Maybe Ovid was
    just an old man with an obsession problem. That would make you very sad to find out he was wrong. Right?

    Next time just go for it rain, snow, sleet, dead of night, wind, even a tornado, just dig. Then you will have something
    tangible to tell. We've all dug a lot of empty holes but we never think, that's it I'm quitting. We suck it up and keep
    digging those signals knowing that sooner or later we will find ourselves a present from the past.

    You don't need all those fancy gadgets if you can't afford it. A quaility metal detector with a large coil will give you all
    the digging you can stand.
    ECS likes this.

  11. #50
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    lastleg-You think I give up easily? You have no idea what I have been through to get to this point. The first time I dug for the pirate chests in Englewood was 25 years ago. The second time I dug was 20 years ago and as I sat on the edge of the well with my scuba gear on and everybody telling me we had to quit because a storm was coming, there was a tornado heading our way. It was just the begining of Hurricane Andrew. Not your average storm. It was the county that forced us to give up the dig. Here it is 20 years later and I want to dig. Yeah right, I give up easily.

    I have dug on numerous occasions in North Carolina and on the last dig I had four people on the site all in their early to late eighties, two were riding with me and we were not prepared for a storm. The backhoe was due back at the rental place and we were going to come back. Something beyond my control happened and I have been trying to go back for two years. I was shown this site 20 years ago and am now making arrangements to go back and dig again. Yeah right, I give up easily.

    I have dug many empty holes and have never said or thought, "that's it I'm quitting". Your the one with the obsession which is coming onto my thread and giving me a hard time.

    I may not need all the "fancy gadgets" but it sure would be nice to have access to some. I guy can hope and dream can't he? I've done the digging, I want to do the finding. Thanks for all the positive thoughts.
    You can lead a man to treasure but you can't make him dig.

  12. #51
    ECS
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    BBD'S NON SEQUITUR STRAWMAN RED HERRING FISH FRY & BBQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdogdad View Post
    ECS-Thanks for all the info. What does it have to do with this thread? All seems pretty much irrelevant... You are trying your best to burst my bubble.

    The RR tracks were laid before the Civil War. They are still in the same location. At most the RR company owns 100' from the center of the track in some locations. I think it is less at my site. The dig spots are out of the RR companies range.

    The bottom line is that I trust my old dowser. He proved his abilities in many ways. I know what I saw. ECS is wasting his time. By his line of reasoning ALL old stories, legends and lore are probably not worth pursuing. I wonder how many threads he goes on telling people they don't know what their talking about? He can't seem to get it through his head that I am convinced I have been led to gold and I am not concerned about the different variations or details of how it might have gotten there. I am smart enough to know that all of this is a big gamble and the odds are against me. When I am too old to go out and dig at least I will be able to say I tried. I will feel better about that than if I had some faceless pessimist talk me out of it just because it might not be there.
    You are welcome for the info.
    What it has to do with this thread is that it contains information that comes outside of treasure books and mags.
    I thought the Civil War RR would be helpful,but I reckon you don't need help when you follow a dowser,as Lastleg observed.
    W C Jameson has made a fortune writing a series of over 60 treasure books repeting the legends and lore, and served as consultant on DISNEY PICTURES "NATIONAL TREASURE" movies.
    You may find his newest book of interest-"FLORIDA'S LOST AND BURIED TREASURES"Garlic Press,158 page paperback.For a list of his books: Research Unlimited - Order Toll-Free 1-800-345-8588 - Treasure
    Once again,if you are not concerned with the details,variations,and whether the legend has any basis in fact,how do YOU know that it is worth the time,effort,and expense to dig?
    You always quote Mel Fisher in your Ovid Arnold story,but Mel spent years on research and KNEW that the ATOCHA treasure existed.It was not lore or legend,but documented fact.
    BBD,you need to stop going on the defensive when someone or something disagrees with you.
    Sometimes information is given as aid to help one discover the truth behind a legend.
    lastleg, Tnmountains and Snipes like this.

  13. #52

    Feb 2008
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    The fact that Ovid made the brag about leading Mel Fisher to the Atoka says a mouthful. Why would we believe that when
    there is no evidence of it happening. Many of us followed the Atoka story back then and I remember the guy who went to
    Spain to search the archives leading to the discovery. Just saying things doesn't cut it, don't you understand that?

    I wish you would find a big one but at the rate you're going, needing backhoes for every cache and multiple partners for each
    and every wishful dig, I can't expect much sucess. If you want some good advise read Karl Von Miller's books on how to go
    about treasure hunting. Maybe it won't be as glamorous as riding around in a vehicle and swinging a dowsing rod but it will
    give you the basics on what to do and what not to do.

    If cache hunting Ovid's way is the only way you follow I can't help you any longer. Good luck.

  14. #53
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdogdad View Post
    ECS-... One way or another you are only quoting what others have written. Do you really think that everything that happened during and after the Civil War can be found in some book or record? For the record, I am not trying to dig up the gold on this location because of something I have read. My old dowser has proven his abilities to me and others and that is all the "fact" I need...
    Yet,BDD,by your own admission,when you and Ovid made your treasure dowsing travels,Ovid always had a stack of treasure books and mags in the car.'nuff said!

  15. #54
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    Gee. where do I start? ECS first.

    Treasure books and mags? I don't as a habit read either one but you do as you constantly quote them. In fact I don't remember the last time I ever read anything in a treasure mag. Seeing as how I am into looking for treasure, reading an occasional treasure book would seem to make sense.

    RR books-What is it that I need to know? I have a location that is near some RR tracks, so what. I am not digging on the RR right-of-way, nor do I need to deal with the RR company in any way.

    W.C. Jameson is obviously by your own admission quite the treasure expert. I can think of worse authors to try to believe. Do you believe ANY of what he has written?

    I am not interested in whether a legend is based on fact? Whose version of the facts? I have the utmost trust in my dowser. Foolish? Maybe. My problem, not yours.

    Mel Fisher spent years on research? Mel Fisher had lots of researchers and spent millions of investors money. Good for him, what's that got to do with me?

    I always go on the defensive when someone "disagrees" with me. Gosh, I wonder why? But of course ECS does not do this.

    The truth behind the legend? I am out trying to dig up the treasure, what could be more of a search for the "truth" than that?

    Now lastleg-Ovid never made the "brag" to me about the Fisher episode. It was one of many stories from his past that he told me in great detail while on our travels together. It was just a big disappointment to him. Evidence of it happening? I met a person since joining TN that on their own with no prompting from me brought up Ovid's name and stated that he was told in the past by a member of the Fisher group that Ovid Arnold of North Carolina put them on some of the Atocha gold. I had him repeat it two more times to be sure I was hearing him correctly. Ovid told me the story many times in our travels of EXACTLY what happened back in the early eighties when he went out with the Fisher crew (not Mel). There are possibly people still alive that know of this but none of them would have any reason or motivation at this time to admit it. On top of this I don't care if you or ANYONE reading this believes me.

    Needing backhoes for every cache? New Jersey boulder/diamonds-dug by hand until I was standing under the boulder. Englewood pirate chest dig/second time. I personally dug an eight foot diameter hole 16 feet deep with a shovel. Georgia saddlebags-Eight foot deep hole in hard clay with a shovel. Pots of gold in North Carolina first dig-dug with a shovel in the hardest soil I have ever seen in my life. Cape Fear pirate chest dig-Dug so deep with a shovel I was very concerned it would cave in on me as I was in the middle of the woods pre-cell phones. Port Charlotte pirate chest-dug three eight deep holes with a shovel. There are many more but I think you get the point. Oh by the way, your prior post where you stated I give up easily? Does it sound like I am all talk and give up easily? How much do you dig versus talk?

    Needing many partners? On some of these digs I was by myself, in the woods, 500 or more miles from home, before cellphones.

    Read Karl Von Miller's book? I assume you have read it and must be a highly successful treasurehunter as you seem to feel the need to give me advice.

    Riding around in a car swinging a dowsing rod? Number one, Ovid swung a pendulum. Number two, I carried him on my shoulders through a swamp. We walked miles through different forests. Glamorous? You bet!

    Cache hunting Ovid's way is the only way so you can't help me? When did you ever help me? Constant critisism? Making fun of me? Liking ECS's posts. If this is your idea of "help", no thanks.

    ECS-By my own admission when traveling with Ovid we had a stack of treasure books and mags? You really need to learn to comprehend what I write. I have never said that in any post on any thread! Ovid NEVER had any treasure books or mags on ANY trip we ever made together over a period of five years. I did mention on the "Swamp Gold" thread that two guys that were with us going to Alligator Alley had brought some treasure books for their own amusement. One trip, one day. Ovid and I did not even look at the cover of them. ECS-You have a problem. Nuff said!!!
    Last edited by Bigdogdad; Oct 01, 2012 at 10:06 PM.
    You can lead a man to treasure but you can't make him dig.

  16. #55

    Feb 2008
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    Sorry you took offense to my remarks. I changed the author's name on the KVM Treasure Manuals to see if you would pick it
    up. Evidently not. Also on the Atocha, see how devious I am? We have a real treasure researcher on this link who stated the
    pots were not paced off 100 ft when planted. I agree it would not have made sense at the time to do so. So you might be
    trespassing to get into the target areas. He also said there were holes everywhere and no trespassing signs all over the place.

    That leaves you up the creek so to speak. The owners of adjacent property are fed up with THers and would report you if seen.
    So please don't waste your time on a useless endeavor which will only drain your limited resources and might land you in the
    hoosegow. Your buddies expensive gadgets, excuse me, electronics. might be confiscated as well.

    I only want to help you out since your efforts so far have been fruitless. I have no dog in this hunt and have absolutely no
    animosity for you or your pal who is now only a memory. You're a good guy BDD. This dream of yours may never be fulfilled but
    what a ride you have had.

  17. #56
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    lastleg-Yes I took offense to your remarks, what did you expect. You changed the name on a treasure book? Why? I have not read it and did not plan to. I thought you just didn't know how to spell Atocha and did not want to make fun of you. As far as the distance from the tracks go, I already think I know the approximate spot on three pots and the exact spot on one. They are all further than 150' feet from the track. Actually the book story says paces, which would be around three feet per pace.

    I am not sure why you think I am up the creek so to speak. I have seen the signs the researcher talks about. I am not on that property. As I have stated, I have a GREAT relationship with the property owners and talk to them on a regular basis. On one of the prior digs they even brought me a birthday cake. They almost always bring sandwiches, cookies and drinks. I don't think I have to worry about anything being confiscated, but thanks for your concern.

    As far as gadgets or electronics go, I have seen a lot of different ones. The last guys to come to my house had spent $30,000 dollars for theirs and the guy that designed and built it worked for NASA on the Mars Rover Project. Their "gadget" uses the same technology. I was impressed with what I saw them do with it.

    Thanks for your attempts at help. I am sure you are not a bad guy but you like to rub me the wrong way and I will let you know it when you do.
    Last edited by Bigdogdad; Oct 02, 2012 at 01:51 PM.
    You can lead a man to treasure but you can't make him dig.

  18. #57

    Feb 2008
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    HA, that's a good sport. I know the name of the gadgets those guys had. Starts with an E. They, like you, are eternal optimists,
    nothing wrong with that but they are real anxious to get some of their investment back so they volunteer to help guys like you on
    the chance you might be on to something. One of those guys says he's a professer, right? Up in OOOhiOOO?

    Wonder what you would see if you took the cover off an E? Some wires hooked up to a brain. That's right, the actual brain of a
    space alien who can sniff out gold molecules from a mile off. The only snag is they can never seem to find out where that smell
    came from

  19. #58
    ECS
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    BBD'S NON SEQUITUR STRAWMAN RED HERRING FISH FRY & BBQ-Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdogdad View Post

    Treasure books and mags? I don't as a habit read either one but you do as you constantly quote them. In fact I don't remember the last time I ever read anything in a treasure mag. Seeing as how I am into looking for treasure, reading an occasional treasure book would seem to make sense...



    I am not interested in whether a legend is based on fact? Whose version of the facts? I have the utmost trust in my dowser...


    Cache hunting Ovid's way is the only way...

    Ovid NEVER had any treasure books or mags on ANY trip we ever made together over a period of five years. Nuff said!!!
    Your above statement sure blows away your various tirades about relating "What some writer has written".You have and do read treasure books,so you are doing that same thing.Why the constant rant?
    Is that where you got the list of all the treasure sites you listed on another thread?
    You also mentioned that Ovid told you about all these sites.Where did Ovid get his information?
    Treasure books & mags?
    Dowsing maps?
    Vision Quest?
    Someone in your tale read what some writer wrote!
    Last edited by ECS; Oct 02, 2012 at 08:53 PM.

  20. #59
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    lastleg-Nothing wrong with being an eternal optimist. Well they certainly think I am on to something. They especially like the Englewood site. Yes one of the guys is a professer from Ohio. He is also a TN member. I don't think it is any big secret and I welcome his comments on this thread. They have been told that if they take their element detector apart it will more or less self destruct. No big explosion, it will just no longer work. It remains to be seen where my relationship with them goes but they think I am for real and want to get back to me when their time and schedule allows. Do you think they are trying to scam me? I don't. Please be honest.

    ECS-I have read some treasure stories in treasure books. So has Ovid. So what. Doesn't just about everybody on TN. Do I believe the stories word for word? Absolutely not. Do I beleive all that I read on the Internet? Of course not. My problem with you is that you think you are able to sort what the ABSOLUTE truth is from old newspaper stories or written accounts from the past. You pick and choose what you decide to believe or not believe. I think we all do this to a certain degree. We tend to agree with the facts that bolster what we want to believe. I think that is human nature. I just think your methods are wrong.

    I am going to give you an example. You site many of your "facts" from old newspaper articles. You purport that they are all true. I have had many articles written involving things I have done over the years. They ALWAYS have mistakes. I just had a article written in the Tampa Bay Times and a link to it was posted on another thread. The reporter spent about six hours over two meetings interviewing me. He took extensive notes. He even called me right before the article came out to check with me about a few things because he was really wanting it to contain no errors. There were still numerous errors in the article. Because they involved me I should know what the facts were.

    This was done in a modern world with digital recorders, cell phones, e-mails, computers and more. This was done with the article writer interviewing the person being written about. How is it that you are so sure that articles written 100 years or more do not contain many errors? Why do you not beleive a book written about treasure but will believe a book that contains stories of gold being moved around and hidden? Why are you so convinced and concerned about the accuracy of stories from Ovid and my lives? What makes you so convinced of the accuracy of your books?

    As far as Ovid and the sites, some were from books and some were not. The only way for anyone to prove the treasures exist is to find them and dig them up. This is what I am trying to do. Quit wasting your time trying to convince me to stop.
    You can lead a man to treasure but you can't make him dig.

  21. #60
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastleg View Post
    HA, that's a good sport. I know the name of the gadgets those guys had. Starts with an E. They, like you, are eternal optimists,
    nothing wrong with that but they are real anxious to get some of their investment back so they volunteer to help guys like you on
    the chance you might be on to something. One of those guys says he's a professer, right? Up in OOOhiOOO?

    Wonder what you would see if you took the cover off an E? Some wires hooked up to a brain. That's right, the actual brain of a
    space alien who can sniff out gold molecules from a mile off. The only snag is they can never seem to find out where that smell
    came from
    Aren't these the same guys that build all those ACME gadgets that the coyote orders to catch the roadrunner?

 

 
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