FORREST FOR THE TREES**********

[Frankn]

Well, lets just look at this presentation. We have a book about a man's exploits and and a mystical 'poem' that is supposed to lead to a treasure. We see a flock of self proclaimed TREASURE HUNTERS? Hay aren't TH's supposed to do the research first and verify that there is in fact reason to believe there is a cache and that they have a location for that cache. With this cache, the stated location has been presented as north of Santa Fe and over 5000'. Now to me that looks like a big chunk of country to try to locate something. Well let's look at the Mystic clues and see if we can apply them to one specific location...........................................
Any suggestions? I can nail down many places to match each 'clue', but not a specific location for even one clue.
This almost looks like driving a nail with a blast from a shotgun, that is even with all the hits, you can never be sure of hitting the nail. Perhaps that is what was intended by Fenn.
Frank...
Flight over the warm waters end.

 

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[BeenThereDoneThat2]

Good to find you Frankn. I did not understand that the thread that Mark D. originated back about 18 months ago was about the Legend Of Forrest Fenn. My mistake. Thought it was about the Chase. No bother. Just water over the dam. Let me get my thoughts together for a new beginning and I'll be back later. Looking forward to it Frankn.

 

[Alan Applegate]

I'm a spoil sport! I guess I am way because I live in Roswell, NM, where the aliens landed!

Living here has taught me several things. One of them is how to write a book on any urban legend, and make a fair living out of it. Besides the aliens, we have Billy the Kid, and enough has been written about his treasure to fill a library! The truth is, he was a scofflaw, an outlaw, and first-rate rabble rouser. He gambled and bedded away most of his ill-gotten loot, but that doesn't make any difference to the authors—It's out there waiting to be found. Not!

I used to subscribe to Lost Treasure magazine, but found all of the stories as hard to believe as little green men. The same could be said about the stories once published in Argosy and True magazines. It sold copy, made the publishers rich, but not because they found the lost treasure of the Sierra Madre!

 

[Frankn]

I'm a spoil sport! I guess I am way because I live in Roswell, NM, where the aliens landed!

Living here has taught me several things. One of them is how to write a book on any urban legend, and make a fair living out of it. Besides the aliens, we have Billy the Kid, and enough has been written about his treasure to fill a library! The truth is, he was a scofflaw, an outlaw, and first-rate rabble rouser. He gambled and bedded away most of his ill-gotten loot, but that doesn't make any difference to the authors—It's out there waiting to be found. Not!

I used to subscribe to Lost Treasure magazine, but found all of the stories as hard to believe as little green men. The same could be said about the stories once published in Argosy and True magazines. It sold copy, made the publishers rich, but not because they found the lost treasure of the Sierra Madre!

This is going to be hard for you, But give a listen. I was prospecting up near White Sands on a GPAA claim when another prospector wondered in. I shared the dinner I was fixing with him. The conversation drifted into the Roswell incident. He was in the Army Air Corp in 47 and was one of those called out to clean the debre from the field. When he got back to the barracks, a friend from the other Co. came over and told him that they had see a crashed saucer and 3 little GRAY men. One was still alive. Now I am a pretty good judge of a personal presentation and I believe this guy was telling the truth. This was back about 1997 when I met him, but I never forgot. I was at Roswell and went to the top of that hill with a transmission or repeater setup looking for debre . Didn't find anything. I also went to the town of White Oak where Billy stoped. They were refinishing the school. There was a nice looking gal that made pottery just outside town. Stopped there for a while. Truth can sometimes be stranger than fiction.
As for Fenn, I suspect some more books are in the works! Frank...

 

[BeenThereDoneThat2]

I do not look forward to the day someone locates the physical treasure,(if it exists at all) because IF that happens it will likely be so far into the future that our warm waters will have halted and we will all probably be dead from our bodies burning out or some other deadly cause. An illusion of the Fenn trove in the mind is likely as close any searcher will come to the Fenn cache. That said, I DO THINK there IS a Fenn devised solution to the word map that Fenn presents as a poem. My reasoning and observations tell me the odds weigh heavy in favor of an Illusion and not a physical treasure hidden by Fenn in nature.
I will outline the reasoning that lead me to that conclusion, as personal time allows in a later post.
Have a good evening all.

 

[boomergirl]

I think Forrest has been thowing out clues, so it's found before he dies.

 

[Frankn]

I think Forrest has been thowing out clues, so it's found before he dies.

Actually, the only clues he has given out are that it is north of Santa Fe and that it is over 5000'. That is unless you count, it is not in a grave yard, or it is not in an outhouse. The poem lines could apply to many places. As so they are useless until a smaller search area is defined. I think he might be planning another book, perhaps with more clues. Frank...

 

[BeenThereDoneThat2]

First off, I have no desire to set myself up as judge and jury of truth or knowledge in
the case of this Chase game. That is for each individual thinker to do on their own in
their own mind.
But to be fair, there informed as well as uninformed opinions. And I am fully aware that
many folks desire to hear only opinions that are the mirror image of their own.
So then, why an illusion and not a physical treasure secreted in outdoors as many who have
interest in the Chase game have concluded? Who knows WHY AN INDIVIDUAL CHOOSES THE
PHYSICAL OVER THE ILLUSION CHOICE? There are many varied reasons.
We are talking about human beings, not robots or members of a cult with a leader who
employs mind control over his followers. I can only share how I arrived at the Illusion conclusion.

TO BE CONTINUED

 

[Alan Applegate]

Frank, we could beat the alien dead horse forever, and not resolve the issue. One thing that folks just won't pay attention to, is the time line involved here. The little gray (green?) men thing didn't appear until 1980 or so. None of the books published previous to Jessy's autobiography, didn't mention any beings at all. In fact, the only thing they covered were the debris filed and the Roswell Daily Record's story. This reason I mention time line is simply this....

The story about Billy the Kid's treasure was published in Argosy magazine in the early 50s. Pervious to that article, none of the numerous books about Billy, mentioned anything about a treasure. Suddenly, ah ha! We have a hidden treasure!

The last time I gave a talk on how metal detectors discriminate, during the Q&A afterwards, there wasn't one question about the direct subject. All the folks wanted to know is how many treasures I had found. As long as we have that sort of mind set among the populous, we'll always have stories written about them.

 

[BeenThereDoneThat2]

So then, This Chase game came to my attention around the first of May of this year
through a friend who wanted to know how I sized it up. Told him that I was not aware of
Fenn or his treasure hunt. The friend did not offer to, but rather SAID that he had
purchased a copy of the book and was mailing it to me to read, and TOLD me to forward the
book to a mutual friend when I had finished with it. So I did that. Over the telepHone,he sounded very interested in the prospect of claiming the prize. Long story short, after a
couple of weeks had passed, we had a potentIal search party made up of one vote for
Yellowstone, one vote for Taos, NM, and one vote for trying to locate the possibility of a
potential hidden safe in Fenn's home. We three were not of a single mind on the matter
at hand.
MORE LATER
PART-2

 

[BeenThereDoneThat2]

The text below is taken from an email that I sent to one of the other two potential search party members after having read TTOTC and did a little research of my own.

About FF,I suspect that maybe FF has set up a "treasure hunt" and "stacked the deck" totally in his favor. FF may walk away from the game with all the chips except those chips representing the fun and pleasure the players derive from TTOTC. FF has already "won" by having thousands of more people know about him and his take of his life and accomplishments, which seems to be at least one of his goals. That may never have happened without his self published and promoted book and "treasure". The possible Fed. charges out there in 2010 must figure somehow in TTOTC release somehow, in my opinion. In his book, FF drops that Gardiner Island "joker card" in there like a ton of bricks so it can't be missed.

The Legend of Zorro was based on the life of Solomon Pico, a murderous bandit who camped in the Santa Maria hills. To this day, people climb the Solomon Hills in California looking for treasure that Pico allegedly buried.
FF is no fool, but his secreted "treausre" just may be "fools gold".
But just for fun, "where the warm waters halt", Hebgen Lake, just outside the boundry of Yellowstone National Park is an excellent starting point from my point of view. And where you stand is critical when looking for the treasure at the end of the FF rainbow.

PART 3
MORE LATER

 

[Frankn]

Frank, we could beat the alien dead horse forever, and not resolve the issue. One thing that folks just won't pay attention to, is the time line involved here. The little gray (green?) men thing didn't appear until 1980 or so. None of the books published previous to Jessy's autobiography, didn't mention any beings at all. In fact, the only thing they covered were the debris filed and the Roswell Daily Record's story. This reason I mention time line is simply this....

The story about Billy the Kid's treasure was published in Argosy magazine in the early 50s. Pervious to that article, none of the numerous books about Billy, mentioned anything about a treasure. Suddenly, ah ha! We have a hidden treasure!

The last time I gave a talk on how metal detectors discriminate, during the Q&A afterwards, there wasn't one question about the direct subject. All the folks wanted to know is how many treasures I had found. As long as we have that sort of mind set among the populous, we'll always have stories written about them.

One thing I have gathered from my 76 years on earth is that people like to dream whether at night or day dreaming. That's what drives a lot of the stories.
James Dean once said," Dream as if you will live forever, live as if you will die today." There is a bit of truth in that. Frank...

 

[Frankn]

So then, This Chase game came to my attention around the first of May of this year
through a friend who wanted to know how I sized it up. Told him that I was not aware of
Fenn or his treasure hunt. The friend did not offer to, but rather SAID that he had
purchased a copy of the book and was mailing it to me to read, and TOLD me to forward the
book to a mutual friend when I had finished with it. So I did that. Over the telepHone,he sounded very interested in the prospect of claiming the prize. Long story short, after a
couple of weeks had passed, we had a potentIal search party made up of one vote for
Yellowstone, one vote for Taos, NM, and one vote for trying to locate the possibility of a
potential hidden safe in Fenn's home. We three were not of a single mind on the matter
at hand.
MORE LATER
PART-2

The problem as you discovered was that the 'clues' could be applied to many different places since there is no location mentioned and no realistic starting point. Where warm waters stop could be where warm waters from a geyser hit a cold stream or at the end of fenn's hot water faucet when he turns it off.
Frank...

 

[BeenThereDoneThat2]

That is essentially correct Frankn. In my post tomorrow night (hopefully) I hope to show how simple it was for me to make the Illusion bet over the hidden in the outdoors or just a joke(ruse).

 

[Frankn]

The text below is taken from an email that I sent to one of the other two potential search party members after having read TTOTC and did a little research of my own.

About FF,I suspect that maybe FF has set up a "treasure hunt" and "stacked the deck" totally in his favor. FF may walk away from the game with all the chips except those chips representing the fun and pleasure the players derive from TTOTC. FF has already "won" by having thousands of more people know about him and his take of his life and accomplishments, which seems to be at least one of his goals. That may never have happened without his self published and promoted book and "treasure". The possible Fed. charges out there in 2010 must figure somehow in TTOTC release somehow, in my opinion. In his book, FF drops that Gardiner Island "joker card" in there like a ton of bricks so it can't be missed.

The Legend of Zorro was based on the life of Solomon Pico, a murderous bandit who camped in the Santa Maria hills. To this day, people climb the Solomon Hills in California looking for treasure that Pico allegedly buried.
FF is no fool, but his secreted "treausre" just may be "fools gold".
But just for fun, "where the warm waters halt", Hebgen Lake, just outside the boundry of Yellowstone National Park is an excellent starting point from my point of view. And where you stand is critical when looking for the treasure at the end of the FF rainbow.

PART 3
MORE LATER

I think I like the hot water faucet in fenn's bathroom next to his treasure vault as a starting point where the warm waters stop. LOL Frank...

 

[BeenThereDoneThat2]

So then. I have 3 options to consider.

(A) the prize was hidden in the outdoors and could be found. The searcher only needed to
have the poem map committed to memory, discover the meaning that Fenn had given to each
clue, find the area in the massive search zone as defined by Fenn (north of Santa Fe, NM,
in the Rocky Mountains, at least 5,000 feet evlevation), where the "clues lined up" and
BINGO!

(B) The whole Chase game may be a joke,the hidden treasure and the poem map, conceived by Fenn to boost sales of his memoir,and maybe some unidentifed other reasons.

(C) The word map (poem) was on the level and led to an Illusion of a treasure in the mind
of the searcher and the poet(Fenn). Fenn, the author of the poem map had the complete
illusion with location in his mind, the searcher lacked the location.

Fenn quoted in an interview I read "they never knew that it was the chase they sought and
not the quarry.” Think about it.

PART 4
MORE LATER

 

[vor]

So then. I have 3 options to consider.

(A) the prize was hidden in the outdoors and could be found. The searcher only needed to
have the poem map committed to memory, discover the meaning that Fenn had given to each
clue, find the area in the massive search zone as defined by Fenn (north of Santa Fe, NM,
in the Rocky Mountains, at least 5,000 feet evlevation), where the "clues lined up" and
BINGO!

(B) The whole Chase game may be a joke,the hidden treasure and the poem map, conceived by Fenn to boost sales of his memoir,and maybe some unidentifed other reasons.

(C) The word map (poem) was on the level and led to an Illusion of a treasure in the mind
of the searcher and the poet(Fenn). Fenn, the author of the poem map had the complete
illusion with location in his mind, the searcher lacked the location.

Fenn quoted in an interview I read "they never knew that it was the chase they sought and
not the quarry.” Think about it.

PART 4
MORE LATER

(B), emphasis on "other reasons".

V

 

[Frankn]

(B), emphasis on "other reasons".

V

I kind of read that as he is in it for the money, but your never find any. Frank...

 

[BeenThereDoneThat2]

Dealing with option (A): I fondly refer to this option as "In The Belly of the Beast"

The area to be narrowed down by the 9 clues to find the prize in the outdoors is a
conservative estimate of 100,000 square miles. That is the minimum. That is if the
searcher restricts the search area in a more or less straight line from Santa Fe, NM to
Bozeman, Montana, all in the area considered to be "in the Rocky Mountains. That's a lot
of areas of 1 mile squares.
Next the searcher must consider the 9 poem clues and maps to help them narrow that gross
search area down.

Now if one happens to "KNOW" Fenn hid the prize in the outdoors in the described area,
Good luck to you. The 9 poem map clues can have multiple meanings and mean different
things to different people. A whole lot more different meanings to those who
who prescribe to the theory that one can never have to much unfettered imagination.
I understand that some few say they are having a great time with this option. OK.

Also, the 6 degrees of separation theory when applied to the 9 clues in the described
gross search area, with clues assigned multiple meanings, depending on the individual
searchers choices, complicate the matter considerably. In the defined search area a
searcher will find multiple locations, in which some or many but not all of the clues
meanings, as assigned by the individual searcher, meet the criteria of searchers
"customized" poem map. But likely nothing else. Just several "close but no cigar"
experiences. Only the nature of the sameness of terrain. and the multiple meanings
assigned by the searcher to clue or clues.

Moving on to option (B) next post.
PART 5

 

[Nickleanddime]

I personally don't think the fenns treasure is real. He states a bunch of times he wants to be remembered forever and leave a legacy behind. What better way then have a bunch of people talking and looking for a treasure? He stole most of it anyways that's why the cops got ahold of him and the Feds are up his rear. Now everyone has a right to believe if they want. Heck that's why I search for things is that unknown and hey it might be under the next rock. But this ones a money and ego inflater for old fenn. Good luck out there hope you find something.