The grandaddy of all Treasure Puzzles FORREST FENNS POEM

[tjdean01]

I love the OP's insight. Been a few years and I'd like to see that combined with other research done since. And of course they need to be viewed along with quotes made by Fenn since.

Reading everyone's opinions, looking at Fenn's background, etc., should be very important. But, I would say the most important, considering that it hasn't been solved for 7 years, is what Fenn has said since. For example, needing a bike now since you're no longer allowed to drive back there. Kind of pinpoints things, but did he actually say that? How many places where the warm water ends has a road that has recently been chained off. Another thing he said is that he'll go get it himself when it's worth $10 million. Again this shows that the location is easily accessible.

EDIT: after a bit more reading I've found that he said the poem could have been written before he put the treasure there. This indicates that his "treasure" and "trove" had been there before placing the chest there. maybe this is one of the places his family used to store camping gear? And "gold" could then be a color and not the gold in the chest. I would like Fenn to clear this up because he let me down this thought path with something he said after the poem was written.

Another thing he said at least twice is that no knowledge of poetry or words is necessary, but knowledge of geography will help. So, Geography as a subject might be what we're looking at here.

 

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[tjdean01]

OP's explanation is good, as are others. Fenn has said that no one has solved the riddle to him in the correct order. That may be the case, but that doesn't mean that every nook and cranny hasn't been searched.

So, I believe that someone found the treasure and kept quiet about it. If I found it, I wouldn't want to let anyone know. I could have it stolen or else hvae too many people asking to borrow money.

Finally, my question is this: how does Fenn know the treasure hasn't been found? Surely Fenn has read all the explanations of where the treasure "should" have been.

So my questions:

1. How does Fenn know it's still there? He can't have gone there or he would have been followed or tracked. Also he might have taken out a few pieces, etc.

2. The OP's solution, for example. If this is true, Fenn either has a) tell him he was right (and that someone else must have found it), b) lie, c) ignore it. What'd Fenn say?

 

[tjdean01]

An intelligent friend of mine, one with no knowledge of treasure hunting or Forrest Fenn until I told him today, offered the following solution with absolute certainty:

'The treasure has already been found a few times. It is not a box, but a direct contact number to Fenn himself. Fenn then pays the treasure hunter himself; and pays him more every year to keep quiet.'

Interesting solution

 

[Mr_Cliffe]

That was incredible! Thank you for doing all that research and sharing this wonderful puzzle with us, I really enjoyed reading through the story and finding all the points on Google Earth along with you!!

 

[Billythekidney]

I think there is some secret message at www.where-warmwater-shalt.com, anyone else see anything?

 

[SlickNickeL]

Slicknickel, today I read your big solve on the FFTC that you posted two years ago and a lot of the discussion that immediately followed it.
I know very little about FF or treasure hunting in general, but I am very intrigued by the nature of the discussion and many of the nuances. In fact, in some ways the actual treasure and your solve are less interesting to me than the surrounding discussion.
Anyway, may I ask you a few questions please, if only for my own curiosity and enlightenment?
1. You clearly spent considerable time solving the poem, and assert quite strongly that your solution is correct to the point of making the case that it is provable that your solution is correct and leaving almost no possibility otherwise. You have also spent a lot of time studying FF to the point where you are very convinced that he would not leave any actual treasure for anyone under any circumstances based on his background and known life history. You were beaten up pretty badly early on in this thread by those who felt that your assertion that there is no treasure was a form of "sour grapes" and a way for you to protect your confidence in your solve. My question is this, because I do not think you ever addressed it: What did you think beforehand? That is, BEFORE you actually went to the place of your solution with your metal detector and camera, did you think at that time that there would probably not be any treasure there (because of what you thought of FF), or did you believe there was a good chance, since you believed your solution to be the correct one, that you would find an actual treasure chest there?
2. As I understand your solve and supporting comments, it would seem that for your solve to make sense and be correct, it would require the puzzle itself and its creator FF to be exquisitely clever and perfect in every way, without any miscalculations, devious red herrings, or honest mistakes. A Level 10 puzzle as you describe it, worked out and thought through and mapped out with extreme forethought and precision. Yet the way you have described FF, including the accusation that he publicly changed the description of the possible boundaries for the treasure for greedy reasons, would lead one to think he might not only be capable of creating a treasure puzzle with no real treasure, but a puzzle with little rhyme or reason either, with the purpose of sending everyone on a wild goose chase where clues don't match, are incorrect, made up, or are deliberately misleading or meant to outright deceive. So my second question is why you believe that the poem/puzzle is a Perfect 10 masterpiece and completely legit, while also believing just as strongly that practically every other thing about FF is fraudulent?
Thank you.

Question #1. I have wrote about this on other sights, but sadly, I'm a threat to those who are making money off the internet, so all of it has been vigorously erased, in hopes that my solution would just disappear.
I first learned of Fenn, way before the chase. The St Louis Post Dispatch ran an article on Fenn, and he was portrayed as a grave robbing archeologists. This was maybe, in the late 80's to mid 90's. I simply can't recall the time period. The reason the article (in a real news paper) struck home, was because of my job and what Fenn was up to. I have buried close to 2000 veterans in my military career, and I have a great reverence for our customs and traditions. I have buried several American Native Indians, and their ceremony is no less valid or insignificant, than any other burial. No one has the right to plunder a grave. Fenn did just that, but under the guise of archeology.
The answer to your question is simply an example of Schrödinger's cat. It didn't matter to me either way if the bronze box was there or not. What mattered, was simply following the breadcrumbs to the final location. In other words, under any and all circumstances, I would open Schrödinger's Box to find what the status of the cat was. In the end, reality collapses into one possibility or the other. What if I opened the box and there wasn't a cat at all in the box, and instead found a bologna sandwich? At least I knew. I am the kind of guy that would open Pandora's box, if the challenge was presented to me, that would be of great reward, mentally.
What I thought of Fenn or think of Fenn, had absolutely no bearing on the outcome. Could have been called Elvis's box for all I'm concerned, and I still would have made the journey and opened the box. Does that mean I'll jump off a cliff because a poem directs me to? No. I found a worthy puzzle, solved the puzzle and followed it to the indicated end. Nothing more, nothing less.
Question #2. Just because someone is wackadoodle or batshit crazy doesn't mean that they can't come up with an original idea or thought, that is world class in nature.
Happens all the time. Whiteout, post-it, the M&M, Curtis-Mathis, Da Vinci, Benjamin Franklin, and Socrates who was ordered to death for what he believed. History has not been kind to many creative people, because of some of the things they did. They were considered "bad" people, but were also detrimental in their studies, with time, being the equalizer and forgiver of some of the greatest minds of all times. Saying that the world wasn't flat, and that the sun didn't rotate around the earth, would have been met with an untimely death. It took a great mind to think outside the box, and at the very same time, made that person, a very bad person. I'm sure history has many bad people doing great things. It doesn't mean that their one spark of genius, will necessarily wipe away all of their sins and turn them into a saint. Fenn has one good puzzle, and that's it. He gets the attaboy and the credit for putting together, one fun and challenging puzzle. I give him that credit. It can't be taken away from him, but the sins of the man still remain, and will need to be absolved by a much higher power. I'm not in judgment of Fenn, I'll leave that up to God.

 

[SlickNickeL]

I love the OP's insight. Been a few years and I'd like to see that combined with other research done since. And of course they need to be viewed along with quotes made by Fenn since.

Reading everyone's opinions, looking at Fenn's background, etc., should be very important. But, I would say the most important, considering that it hasn't been solved for 7 years, is what Fenn has said since. For example, needing a bike now since you're no longer allowed to drive back there. Kind of pinpoints things, but did he actually say that? How many places where the warm water ends has a road that has recently been chained off. Another thing he said is that he'll go get it himself when it's worth $10 million. Again this shows that the location is easily accessible.

EDIT: after a bit more reading I've found that he said the poem could have been written before he put the treasure there. This indicates that his "treasure" and "trove" had been there before placing the chest there. maybe this is one of the places his family used to store camping gear? And "gold" could then be a color and not the gold in the chest. I would like Fenn to clear this up because he let me down this thought path with something he said after the poem was written.

Another thing he said at least twice is that no knowledge of poetry or words is necessary, but knowledge of geography will help. So, Geography as a subject might be what we're looking at here.

You may want to check your facts and read up a bit on Fenn. You will need a dictionary and you better know the usage and meanings of words, because Fenn does. It's out there, just need to find where he has said it.

 

[SlickNickeL]

Your questions are very valid, and only Fenn can answer them. Common sense would say, he doesn't know, or he never put the treasure in the hidey-hole in the first place, hence, he knows exactly what the deal is. It's hard to find something, if it was never there in the first place.

Your answer to #2
Fenn told me, "I wasn't even close" on my solution.

 

[Billythekidney]

There is a new message out on www.where-warmwater-shalt.com I think I figured out the second one but not sure what to do with it. Anyone else got it?

 

[bradyboy]

bogus link

 

[Bryn]

Question #1. I'm a threat to those who are making money off the internet, so all of it has been vigorously erased, in hopes that my solution would just disappear.

Your solution was incorrect and rather than admit you were mistaken, you came up with the tired excuse that Fenn was a fraud. You didn't find it where you thought it should be = it was hidden somewhere else.

I found a worthy puzzle, solved the puzzle and followed it to the indicated end. Nothing more, nothing less.

The puzzle is worthy. You were not up to the task.

Question #2. Just because someone is wackadoodle or batshit crazy doesn't mean that they can't come up with an original idea or thought, that is world class in nature.
Happens all the time. Whiteout, post-it, the M&M, Curtis-Mathis, Da Vinci, Benjamin Franklin, and Socrates who was ordered to death for what he believed. History has not been kind to many creative people

Are you seriously comparing yourself and your whackadoodle solve to true geniuses and their inspired creations? Get over yourself, you self-aggrandizing narcissist.

 

[SlickNickeL]

Your solution was incorrect and rather than admit you were mistaken, you came up with the tired excuse that Fenn was a fraud. You didn't find it where you thought it should be = it was hidden somewhere else.


The puzzle is worthy. You were not up to the task.


Are you seriously comparing yourself and your whackadoodle solve to true geniuses and their inspired creations? Get over yourself, you self-aggrandizing narcissist.

Bryn,

"Question #2" was in response to a previous question.

You just called Forrest Fenn a self-aggrandizing narcissist.

Maybe you should read the whole post before inserting foot in mouth. The comment had nothing to do with me.

The comparison was between Fenn and the real geniuses of the world. I was simply answering the question.

At the beginning of my solution, I made it clear, that my explanation wouldn't be understood by most people who just look at the pictures. Only someone who actually reads the whole solution, connects the dots and has a grasp of complex puzzles, will understand the solution.

Good luck in your trolling adventures, i'de suggest Chase Chat or HOD for a better trolling experience. TresureNet has class and an awesome reputation.

 

[Bryn]

It sure sounded like you were comparing yourself to the true geniuses, considering how much effort you've put into claiming you solved Fenn's puzzle. Doesn't that make you the smarter guy? You are a self-aggrandizing narcissist, and that's based on the plethora of self-aggrandizing comments you've made when people read your post and dismiss it as so much hogwash. You're convinced you're right despite all the evidence stacked against you. As you state, Fenn told you you weren't even close, yet here you are flogging your incorrect solve and demanding credit for it. Not going to happen.

TreasureNet does have class, which is why I'm surprised they allow you to continue claiming you solved Fenn's puzzle when you clearly did not. Enjoy your fantasy, but don't expect the rest of the chase community to buy into your hype. As for the other forums, I see you were banned from them, and rightly so.

 

[SlickNickeL]

It sure sounded like you were comparing yourself to the true geniuses, considering how much effort you've put into claiming you solved Fenn's puzzle. Doesn't that make you the smarter guy? You are a self-aggrandizing narcissist, and that's based on the plethora of self-aggrandizing comments you've made when people read your post and dismiss it as so much hogwash. You're convinced you're right despite all the evidence stacked against you. As you state, Fenn told you you weren't even close, yet here you are flogging your incorrect solve and demanding credit for it. Not going to happen.

TreasureNet does have class, which is why I'm surprised they allow you to continue claiming you solved Fenn's puzzle when you clearly did not. Enjoy your fantasy, but don't expect the rest of the chase community to buy into your hype. As for the other forums, I see you were banned from them, and rightly so.

You are speaking for the masses of searchers, glad to know I am speaking with their leader, and chief operator of their Kool-Aid stand.

As far as the "evidence stacked against me", you really should read the whole thing.

Fact, as of this very moment, not one single person has been able to successfully refute this solve. Sure, there are the crazies, the instigators, the trolls, and people like yourself that simply can't handle the truth.

Fact, if you haven't read my solve, connect the points and made the final journey, to the mausoleum, then you can't rightly claim anything more, than what your opinion concludes.

Fact, over 50 people have made the journey, (not all physically), have connected the points, have read and understood this solution.

I just guess Bryon, you don't understand. Not everyone will, after all, it's difficult to jump into someone's head and pull out the answers.

You will need to be a poet,
You must have an imagination and can visualize something in the abstract.
You will need to understand people,
You will need to understand topography,
You must understand imagery,
You must have served in the military,
And this list goes on and on...

Calling me names and using generalizations that don't hold water, won't get you any closer to the answers you seek. Why argue with me? If you don't believe this solution, then move on to one that does. After all, you represent the masses of searchers, and surly this little ol' solve, shouldn't bother you or pose a serious challenge to the Fenn-gods elusive treasure hunt, for millions in gold and jewels. Why wast your time on me? Lol

This will be my last response to you, unless you would like to propose a logical challenge to my solution. If you do not read the whole solution, and use generalizations, I will not respond. It's not that you could post a valid challenge, it's my experience in dealing with Fenn-trolls, that causes me to ignore their ankle-biting.

Scroll up to a troll who claimed he was a writer. Wasted tons of time writing a bunch of gibberish with no new insight to my solution. He wasted his time, and not mine.

 

[Bryn]

Why argue with me?

Because I object to your submitting your solve as the final answer, when all you've managed to do is find a spot where the treasure wasn't. Instead of doing the rationale thing and accepting that just maybe you were wrong, you decided to save face and call Fenn out as a fraud. This is my final post to you as well. I have a treasure to find; the very one you say is not out there.

 

[xxironjxx]

Slick,

I have taken many psychology courses and I know humans are creatures of habit. One has to ask the question, Why is the old man (FF) all of a sudden wanting to give away his money? Does he have a wife and a family to support? what about debts? A tarnished history that needs to be reconciled?

Maybe if I was a rich prince in Nigeria who is looking for a bank account to transfer all my millions in gold to, but I need 10k dollars first so I can verify that it is a true account. Maybe if that was the case, why would I give out this money? Did I meet Jesus and now I feel bad for all that is wrong in the world?

You have to ask the why's. What is the motivation of FF? There is none other reason I can think of than that to make money/fame/popularity. It's actually genius. Because of how the media and society is these days.

Shoot, I might make a grand daddy puzzle and actually put 10 bucks in, just because I personally would feel bad to leave someone hanging like that. I study behaviors of individuals, and I haven't seen anything otherwise that says this man would give out money.

Maybe, just maybe, I could actually see him (after making millions of this chase), then "planting" the chest after the fact. But then again, that would require a non greedy heart.

Have I met him or spoke to him (FF), no I haven't. So my suggestions are just opinions, but I would agree with you slick.

TLR Ask the why behind the madness

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

End the insults or lose the ability to post.

January 20, 2017 A New Beginning!

 

[SlickNickeL]

2 Years now, and the best anyone can say to refute this solve is "You don't have the chest, so your solve isn't correct".

I can't open my wallet and wish a $100.00 bill in it either, if I didn't put one in there in the first place.

The human brain is our own personal universe. Each of us have one that is completely unique on to itself.

Lets qualify a few things here first, so that we may understand a specific form of logic.

A psychologist specializes in the field of human behavior and how the mind works within the context of an event or environment. A shrink probes the mental process to ascertain the goings on of something, that they themselves don't understand.

Now, let's take a Poet.
A poet, or a piece of poetry in itself, provides the brain a roadmap that can be followed by understanding the response to the poetry in question. One poem can mean many different things to many different individuals, BUT! The poet/author of the poem KNOWS EXACTLY what the real meaning is and what it's supposed to be. Many poets strive to invoke as many emotional responses that they can for diversity. It all starts with the authors ideas and thoughts and what it means to them, intentionally or otherwise.

When a poem is prefaced by the original author, A LOT is revealed as to what the author was thinking and in what direction that thought pattern was to progress. (REMEMBER THIS LAST STATMENT)
Many poets never reveal their original thoughts or feelings. When some poets reveal what their thought process was, often times it COMPLETELY changes the readers perspective as to what the reader first had in mind.

Let's take Forrest Fenn and his poet/treasure map.

Remember, Fenn released the poem and "prefaced" the poem with clues. The clues are made to show the reader a direction to take in understanding the poem, and not necessarily finding "X". Here is the real power IF you think and understand like a poet.

As a poet, I can assure you that when Fenn started to compose his poem, he started with something that looked more like a story line that had a physical description of many different places. It could have been many hundreds of words describing each point or place leaving nothing to be left out, to provide a complete and accurate accounting of each place.
From here, the distilling process takes place and It's from these words, this final liquor for aging and refining a poem are fermented from.
It's like building a huge brick wall. All the bricks are there, it's just that the wall must have 1/10 of the bricks originally used, to form the end product, and still look like the same wall that was originally built. In other word, 9 in every ten words must be removed and still tell the exact same story with the exact same meaning, even thought the story and meaning will be different to everyone, depending on how they "Look" at the wall. And, in this case, Fenn chose a particular form of poetry and meter, that his final product would be bottled into.
What can influence this final product, is the authors notes and any insight, clues that precede the poem directing the reader, as to what should be assumed or not assumed. Fenn laid it all out for us in clues, and not necessarily by "inclusion" but more by "subtraction". (Another really important point to remember as I unfold the logic).
Think for a moment, what if Fenn NEVER gave out one single clue? Now the poem is so vauge, that it becomes impossible and would be considered plain nonsense.
I will show the reader, as a poet, just how important Fenn's preface really was in determining the correct way, in which to interoperate the progression of clues and their meanings.
To qualify myself, I am a poet with my own "voice" meaning, I produce original material from an original thought process. I have done this through education, mentorship, emulation, practice and more practice. I have progressed through all the stages necessary to be an original, free thinking poet, an island and a rock that I stand on from which I spew and announce my muse. I am in the 10,000+ hours club. I can therefore, through reverse engineering, dissect any piece of poetry, and form an opinion.

My opinion as a poet: Never mind the treasure, let's concentrate on the place that Inspired Fenn to write a poem about a specific place, and where he wanted to die.
As a poet, I can assure you that this place must be awesome. Why? Fenn is well traveled and has seen many a countryside from the ground and the air. This is his catalog of life and experiences that he has seen and visited. The place that Fenn wants you to find from his poem MUST be visually stunning from both the ground and the air. By understanding the author, it is possible to understand the inspiration that forged the poem into existence. Fenn's special place must have layers and layers of mind blowing awe, that produced the layers upon layers of the description of the beauty that he has witnessed and wrote for his poem. Why the air and the sky? Because Fenn stated that he flew many a flights over the desert looking for signs of Indian burial locations. He would later visit the places, no doubt using a map. If anyone fails to make this connection or see the logic, then I pity the fool who digs for dreams in a well marked minefield.
Know the author, know the poem.
Stab the heart don't stab the heart, the choice is yours.

Ask yourself this simple question when finishing the final clue in your solve, standing at your intended location of the last word in the poem:
Would I want to be buried here?
Simple question, but effective. This place should be heaven on earth.
The journey should be mind numbing and awestruck at the beauty.
The stars "clues" in the poem, will all perfectly align to have you standing on a mark that explains everything, and leaves nothing more to be required except the raw beauty of it all. It will all make sense and it will be inspirational. Nothing will be left out and every detail will reveal itself.
Funny, how after all these years, not one single intelligent person has found this special spot. Or have they? No doubt, every single "Home of Brown" has been found, researched, and over analyzed to the point of absurdity, and still no one is closer than 200'? The obvious choice would be the hugeass horse fly sitting on everyone's noses, but surely it can't be that easy. After all, this is Forrest Fenn we are talking about. No god would ever make the obvious so easy as a Google search. Our Fenn god leaps tall building with a single bound and is so smart, and such a brilliant poet, that no puny human could ever enter the mind of the great one, and steal his muse to gain the advantage to the prize of all that gold and jewels.
Believe it or not, the obvious becomes the reality, and then ignored because we choose to believe in something bigger. HOB is, and always will be the same HOB 500 years from now. History has already woven its tapestry on the Brown Ranch over 100 years ago but there's no way it could ever be that easy, not now or 1000 years from now. Or could it be that easy?
Let's start with Fenn's preface and how it effects the poem.
In a regular treasure hunt, we all become historians in order to gain knowledge to circumstances and information that surround the events leading to the disappearance of treasure. At best, the information that is gathered has been handed down orally or in writing, officially or through stories. We must become detectives in order to gain insight as to what direction the clues take us.
Fenn's poem is a treasure map. It reads just like any other treasure map except it's in a poem form. Definitely not the best for hiding a treasure, unless there is a preface in order to orientate the poem to a physical location, that the map was intended to show.
In Fenn's case, the poem/map was intended for everyone. In order to make his treasure believable, he told his story and put forth a set of clues and instructions on how to read the map. So, it's the clues and interviews that form the preface to the poem which also serves as a map.
It's in the preface that the poem can be followed and understood. It's the "key" to reading the map.
First, the most important is the Dictionary. This shows us that the poem on-its-face, does not show the reader a direction to the gold. Fenn has directed us to use a dictionary, to unveil the necessary meanings of specific words, in order to progress through the poem/map. Fenn is crystal clear in this. Fenn loves to "one up" the college educated word smith, and is well noted in his attempts in trying to make joe-smarty pants his "Huckleberry". Look this up in the dictionary and you will understand the meaning. This is Fenn's strong suit. This is where he shines and glimmers. His pride comes from his knowledge of words and their archaic meanings. Fenn has spent many hours studying the origins of words, because, he believes in his upbringing, that a vast vocabulary, and the ability to regurgitate useless facts about the origins of words make him interesting and smart. This was the tradition from his era for students going to college to have an expanded vocabulary. He never let go of it after dropping out of college and used it to his advantage. It was a common practice for college students during Fenn's time period to emulate a degree of semantics in order to fit in with their pier groups. This is a huge part of Fenn's façade. Take away the obvious and you find the man.
To what depth does the poem go in semantics? This is the question, the answer and the KEY to the poem. Fenn is a dinosaur. His up bringing was from an old dictionary that now classifies most of those definitions as archaic, if they weren't already classified the same in his era. With the advent of online dictionaries, a lot of the long drawn out definitions have been simplified and condensed. Many just state an "archaic" identifier with a simple word or meaning. Here is the magic clue that must be embraced. That clue is to take EVERY word and distill it down to its earliest meaning. Somewhere in all of these archaic definitions lies the truth and the key to the poem. I spoke of Fenn, including and disqualifying certain clues in his preface in order to decipher the poem. Here's the biggest clue of all of his clues.

"APRIL 2014
Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f"

Let's take my example of the word "meek". Using the previous clue set, this is how it fits perfectly with a correct definition.


The Bible has been translated into English for hundreds of years by scholars and theologians. But occasionally it comes to light that our language has changed so much that another interpretation of a word may be more accurate. Some 30 years ago I heard that said about the word meek.*
*
Jesus creates a strange image by saying, “Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.” (Matthew 5:5)* The Apostle Paul speaks of “…the meekness and gentleness of Christ…” (2 Corinthians 10:1)
*
A casual reading of these verses today would give you a mental picture of meekness that is far from the forceful image common in Bible times. Our dictionary defines meekness as, “…easily imposed upon, submissive, spineless.” But wait a minute.* Once you realize that this word is a translation of a Greek military term, you get a completely different picture.
*
The Greek word “praus” (prah-oos) was used to define a horse trained for battle. Wild stallions were brought down from the mountains and broken for riding. Some were used to pull wagons, some were raced, and the best were trained for warfare. They retained their fierce spirit, courage, and power, but were disciplined to respond to the slightest nudge or pressure of the rider’s leg. They could gallop into battle at 35 miles per hour and come to a sliding stop at a word. They were not frightened by arrows, spears, or torches. Then they were said to be meeked.
*
*As centuries went by the secret of training such animals was passed from the Greeks to the Roman legions, then to the Moors, the Spanish conquistadors, and finally the Austrian Empire. We see a few war horse descendants today in the Lippizanner horses of the Spanish Riding School of Vienna.
*
To be meeked was to be taken from a state of wild rebellion and made completely loyal to, and dependent upon, one’s master. It is also to be taken from an atmosphere of fearfulness and made unflinching in the presence of danger. Some war horses dove from ravines into rivers in pursuit of their quarry. Some charged into the face of exploding cannons as Lord Tennyson expressed in his poem, “The Charge of the Light Brigade.”
*
*These stallions became submissive, but certainly not spineless. They embodied power under control, strength with forbearance.
*
The horse that he rides [is] entirely of that colour,
in truth.
A green horse huge and strong,
A proud steed to restrain,
Spirited under bridle,
But obedient to the man.
(173 - 178)
In medieval romances, a man’s ability to control his horse is a symbol of his masculinity
and his own self-control. The greater the horse he controls, the greater the man. So, the fact that the Green Knight’s horse is huge, strong, and spirited but obedient to him tells us that his character is very strong, masculine, and in control of himself, too.

Greek Dictionary Wikki
* The classical Greek word used to translate meekness was that for a horse that had been tamed and bridled.[14]


Mind you, there are NO Bible verses indicated, but it defines a very archaic Greek definition of "Meek" that was translated through its meaning used in the bible.
Lots and lots of digging just to get this. Fenn specifically mentioned "Bible verses" as a clue into itself. It was through the biblical use that defined the word and its meaning by its intended use. Not a "verse" in the bible. In other words, The true meaning of "meek" that Fenn used as a clue is described and defined by its meaning and use, in the bible translated from Greek. Not Latin! Another clue.
Fenn's whole poem puzzle a play on definitions and associations with words and their location.
"Take the chest and go in peace"
Does anyone have a chest of a horse, on a map, that lies East of a a naturally made volcanic uplift and river bed that makes a peace sign? My solve does! Makes perfect sense to me.
Here is my favorite, Fenn excluded "curved lines" ALL LINES MUST BE STRAIGHT!!!

"NO CIPHERS, OR CODES" !!! What part of English doesn't the searcher get, when they dedicate a whole 50+ pages dedicated to the cipher of Forrest Fenn's poem.
No wonder people don't understand, "don't go where an 80 year old man wouldn't go"
And do something stupid like repel across a river.

Fenn's original mind set, was for the reader to buy his book. He says so, by stating use TTOTC. He even included all the things not to do. The above quote and clue set was a sales pitch to steer clear of complicated computations and concentrate the readers interest in buying his book. This was a sales pitch! It was also a whole set of clues to eliminate various scenarios that might be encountered. Has anyone listened? Lol, apparently not.
"Depth meters" is also an interesting subject.
Why did Fenn let the reader know about the elevation?
Returning to the thought process of the creator of the poem, this prefaced clue is really important. It deals with how and why this clue was mentioned and not because it was a safety issue. This also runs parallel with his comment "I wish someone would ride in there with a bike and get the treasure f."
Somewhere in all of Fenn's planning and documentation towards the making of his poem, he ran into an elevation sign. How do I know this? Because he couldn't put this in his distilled finished poem, so he decided to put this roadside indicator "elevation sign" in as a prefaced clue by stating an elevation level. Even as a flat lander, I've climbed many hills and several mountains, and I NEVER once cared about the elevation. I did, on the other hand care about the grade. Elevation is really not a big deal in orienteering, compared to the gradient of assent and dissent. It's just something that's not considered. So, practical thinking would suggest a marker or sign post to be encountered describing an elivation. Now, let's take a location, and stick a elevation sign along the roadside. How often does this occur? For a fact, elevation markers are very rare. Especially right outside a town that has a minimal amount of elevation change. Did I encounter one? Well sure I did! It stuck out like a sore thumb. Really out of place. Didn't make any sense if you ask me. I saw it on my bike. Peddled right past it. As far as the bike comment, btw there are two references to Fenn and a bike, this is the later of the two. BLM came in and locked the whole area down. Before, Fenn would drive and park in the quarry to hide his vehicle. Later, after all the people and problems at Folsom Falls, BLM locked the whole area down. If you park your car on the side of the road and hop the fence, you will be greeted by law enforcement and be handed a ticket, or they would tow your car, hence the bike clue/comment.
This is a desolate place with a population of less than 50 people and it amazed me by the Sheriffs patrols that went by as I headed towards the area. I decided to go inland through rough road and trails, so that I could use ignorant deniability in case I was stopped. I passed no signage stating my passage was not permitted.

"Nigh" anyone look this one up?
nigh
Also found in: Thesaurus, Legal, Idioms.
nigh *(nī)
adv. nigh·er, nigh·est
1. Near in time, place, or relationship: Eveningdraws nigh.
2. Nearly; almost: It is nigh impossible to get ticketsnow.
adj. nigher, nighest
1. Being near in time, place, or relationship; close:sick and nigh to death.
2.
a. Being on the left side of an animal orvehicle: pulling hard on the nigh rein.
b. Being the animal or vehicle on the left: thenigh horse.

Care to guess what side of the horse head at Folsom Falls is facing? If you look at the horse head at Folsom, "drawing nigh" is the left side of a horse head that ends up a semi topographic "draw" and also if you take the picture itself, and render it to a line drawing, it looks like an artist hand drew the horses head.

And how about the horses "marvel gaze" gaze came from, the gaze of an animal/horse.

If the words and their proper meanings are applied and understood, then so should the final location where Fenn said he placed his box.

Stay tuned for more!

 

[Treasureriver]

Two years and no serious rebuttal...

OK,
Let me first say there is an old saying which goes, don't argue with people who have ridiculous view points because the very act of arguing grants them more legitimacy than they are worthy of and it diminishes your own credibility...

Having said that, I'm willing to take the risk on three accounts.
1) Although I find a number of things in your solve convoluted, it is however very thoughtful and is also very instructive for others who have come after you (negative data is often more important than data which seems to confirm a theory since clearly negative data can rule out entire areas of false leads).
2) And more importantly, your solve is accompanied with a fare amount of slander which I believe should be left out and simultaneously left up to others to determine for themselves (mostly because in the end your commentary on a poem interpretation which has had 1000s of solves, rings of hubris if not sourness and smells a bit Machiavellian)
3) The least important, although a good reputation is too be more desired than gold, I don't really care that much because its a big world and there is a great deal of room for mistakes and I have a fair degree of anonymity on the net...

With no further preamble let me start with a recommendation, try listing or bulleting your 9 definitive clues and provide the most succinct form of these 9 clues explanation.

I have found that when this exercise is undertaken many flaws in cold logic become more obvious -- just a thought...

So you start this last post with the self confirming statement, that two years my solve has been posted for all the world to see and the only rebuttal is that your solve is obviously incorrect because you didn't find the treasure.
The implication being that this clearly proves your solve and ultimate thesis correct; that there never was a treasure to begin with ... But unfortunately, one bad logical argument doesn't legitimize or prove another logic or in this case your long and involved solve or thesis, correct -- this is equally poor logic.

At best it means a particular framework of logic is fairly solid and at worst so long and convoluted that its not capable of being articulately refuted.

However the lengthy nature and thoughtfulness is to be commended for the degree of insights that may be required to solve the puzzle provided readers don't fall into the trap of self confirming biases that you have; which by the way is the most instructive lesson of all.

From the onset let me state that as a current searcher or a future searcher, the most important lesson to take away from the multitudes of profits and people who thought they had the absolute solve is the principle of self confirming bias. Please please look it up...and one of the greatest defenses against falling prey to this ruthless foe is to produce the most succinct version of your solve to a few trusted friends (preferably friends not involved with hunt because they will most likely have their own biases) and get critical feedback from them. This goes a long way to protect you from foolishness and a waste of resources.

So now just a few of thoughts:
You start your whole solve setting the context which to a degree is fine but as Einstein said, "context is everything." All negotiators or contract designers know that defining the context defines the victor. Also perspective is obviously critical but is also as varied as there are stars in the firmament. And in your solve you build such a large case of perspective it ceases to be about the poem as much as the house of cards you've built. The largest and most obvious is your attempt to peer into the authors very psychology and motives with out a real scientific assessment of character motives and psychology - you admit to not reading the books he's written but you choose to include every video or interview. You say this is following to some degree Forrest own instructions, that only the poem and some good maps are necessary to find the treasure but you arbitrarily (by your own rules because you obviously don't trust him so why this) chose to do ALL kinds of other research to come up with your master perspective....

If you go through your solve with this awareness alone, you will see that you have made many decisions using limited knowledge sets (look up gaming theory) but still believe that they are in errant or beyond the possibility of being incorrect.

You should go back over your own solve with the same skepticism you have towards Fenn and see what you uncover...

Honestly, it might open up a possibility you never saw which actually unveils the treasure - who knows

Regards,

Treasureriver

 

[SlickNickeL]

You should go back over your own solve with the same skepticism you have towards Fenn and see what you uncover...

Honestly, it might open up a possibility you never saw which actually unveils the treasure - who knows

Regards,

Treasureriver

Knock yourself out!
Oh! And finders keepers, lol