You Found The Treasure Cache - Now What?

[ArfieBoy]

And... all this time I thought that picture was of Ritz crackers in plastic container!

 

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[MiddenMonster]

I think I speak for most Americans when I say that we tend to define "income" as compensation that someone else reports to the government that they paid us. Therefore, if I found a cache of gold coins I wouldn't consider them "income" until they were exchanged for cold, hard cash. And in this day and age I'd be far more concerned with the mobster having HD infrared cameras all over the place to keep an eye on the cache. Between cameras, touch DNA and the like, the fun has pretty much been taken out of crime. Let's face it, forensics be jammin' a brother up...

 

[Johnnybravo300]

There is no profit when transferring gold to fiat. Gold is constitutional money so you only are converting to a weakened reserve note, as the gold retains the same values.

If anyone here has read the tax code they would know there's nothing in it about finding gold and that income is defined as corporate profits, not hourly income. There's no profit in a man trading his time for an hourly wage. Dont be in such a hurry to give away what you have out of unfounded fear and look through the propaganda. It's not hard.

 

[MiddenMonster]

There is no profit when transferring gold to fiat. Gold is constitutional money so you only are converting to a weakened reserve note, as the gold retains the same values.

Well now, that all depends on the gold, doesn't it? There is value by weight, face value and there is also numismatic value. If you find a cache of 20 1oz. gold coins you can exchange them for cash in weight, based on the current price of gold. Or you could exchange them for their face value, which may be $20/coin, depending on when they were struck. And finally, you could exchange them for their numismatic value, which could be hundreds or thousands of times their value in weight or face value. Which exchange do you think the IRS is going to try to hook you for? If you said their numismatic value, go to the head of the class. It would be the same thing if you inherited the coins. The only way to get out of paying the higher tax would be if you had a receipt for the transaction to prove to the IRS how much you actually received in exchange for the coins.

If anyone here has read the tax code they would know there's nothing in it about finding gold and that income is defined as corporate profits, not hourly income. There's no profit in a man trading his time for an hourly wage. Dont be in such a hurry to give away what you have out of unfounded fear and look through the propaganda. It's not hard.

People have said that for years, but prisons are littered with people who went to court to test that belief. Since the income tax was first implemented you can probably count on one hand the people who have prevailed against the government when they whipped that argument out in front of a judge. And you would still have enough fingers available to pick an apple up off the table. The only people getting away with trying that are those the IRS hasn't yet caught. Once they get their hooks into them the jig is up.

EDIT: Here's the key part of the tax code:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/61
26 U.S. Code § 61 - Gross income defined
(a) General definition Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, gross income means all income from whatever source derived, including (but not limited to) the following items:

(1) Compensation for services, including fees, commissions, fringe benefits, and similar items;
(2) Gross income derived from business;
(3) Gains derived from dealings in property;
<cut>
(14) Income in respect of a decedent; and
(15) Income from an interest in an estate or trust.

Good luck convincing the IRS that you don't owe taxes on your hourly wage or for cashing in your found gold.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

The prisons are littered? Where? That's another big misbelief people have and the biggest source of the fear mongering.....they lock you up!
I've already dealt with all this many years ago so I'm just trying to help out with some truths. No sweat off my teeth, it ain't my money haha.
It's amazing what a guy can do for himself within the confines of the law, just as the founders wanted it.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Although, I am posting this from Alcatraz. They give me internet access when I take my meds like a good boy haha. Ok gotta shower now, Bubba is waiting.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

I do like to kid but in all seriousness, never pick a battle with them unless you know you can win.
Knowing the answers to all your questions, the laws and your rights and supreme court rulings of course.
Jail might be easier than the hassles they can cause (cant really say for sure since I've never been a criminal), but anything worth doing takes some work in life and I'd do it again.

If nothing else, stop at your local IRS office and ask them for a copy of the law that says you have to pay income taxes hehe. Surely they'd have that?
That's always a fun way to start the conversation.

It's about the most effective way I can serve my country and uphold my oath as a veteran and concerned peace loving, law abiding citizen, which I am.

If I can plant a seed in someone's head then I feel like I did a good thing....everyone has their own choices to make.

 

[Roger Mn.]

Here is what you can do with the gold coins.
https://www.pjstar.com/news/20181128/gold-coin-donor-strikes-again-for-salvation-army-in-canton

 

[MiddenMonster]

I do like to kid but in all seriousness, never pick a battle with them unless you know you can win.

You mean like the way Irwin Schiff won? Oh, wait! He died in prison...doing yet another stretch for...wait for it...TAX EVASION! And he was the undisputed master of all the tax protester arguments and schemes about the income tax being voluntary, only applying to corporate profits, that Old No. 16 was improperly ratified, etc. It's absurd to think that after all the shenanigans the Congress has pulled over the last 100 years that they wouldn't add one more to the list by fixing what you mistakenly believe about the tax code. They update it every year, and somehow fixing the Grand Loophole that means the end of income tax revenue for them never makes it into the discussion? How absurd! That logic ranks up there with the people who insist they don't need to have a driver's license because they are "free inhabitants" and therefore don't have to follow the law.

If nothing else, stop at your local IRS office and ask them for a copy of the law that says you have to pay income taxes hehe. Surely they'd have that?
That's always a fun way to start the conversation.

And by "start the conversation" you mean "put yourself on their radar", right? I don't like taxes any more than most people. But I also have no problem paying them. If I found a suitcase full of modern money I probably wouldn't mention it to anyone, and not report it as income. But if I found a cache of old money, gold coins, priceless artifacts or some other treasure that had to be converted into--as you call it--"fiat", I wouldn't hesitate to report that transaction on my tax return. The freedom--both literally and figuratively that buys is priceless.

 

[opee]

Looks like crackers to me! Say no more and delete.

 

[Msbeepbeep]

Coin collections i don't believe are viewed as income. But verify that.

 

[MiddenMonster]

Coin collections i don't believe are viewed as income. But verify that.

From a tax perspective it might be more complicated than that. If you inherited a coin collection, it might come down to whether or not it was declared as part of the estate and subject to the inheritance tax. Not including it in the valuation of the estate and then selling it for a boatload of money later might get you on the hook for avoiding the inheritance tax. If you developed the coin collection over several years and then sold it there might be a capital gains tax liability, if it had appreciated in value. To that end, it is probably wise to keep all the receipts accrued to offset any appreciation. Of course, if you can claim that you "found" the coins in a Coinstar bucket or while metal detecting you could probably avoid the inheritance tax, but since the capital gains tax is likely to be less than the income tax you might have a choice to make. And since we all know that income is what someone else declares to the government that they paid you, a private sale to an individual for cash doesn't leave a paper trail. But good luck finding a private collector willing to pay you $500K in cash and who doesn't want some kind of paperwork for their own protection. Fortunately, that's why we have filthy rich Japanese business men who like to collect things and hate public documentation of what they collect. That's how I plan to unload the Lost Aztec Gold if I find it...

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Not for the weak at heart haha. They can be jerks about it but it works.

 

[rcb187]

simply don't tell anyone, pack the car, stuff them under a bag and move across the country.

 

[KANACKI]

I refuse to comment, I know none of these posters, or person(s) who may have found the cache. I live on a small UN-named island in the south Pacific and i died last year.

hmmm That sounds like me?

Kanacki

 

[Nitric]

From a tax perspective it might be more complicated than that. If you inherited a coin collection, it might come down to whether or not it was declared as part of the estate and subject to the inheritance tax. Not including it in the valuation of the estate and then selling it for a boatload of money later might get you on the hook for avoiding the inheritance tax. If you developed the coin collection over several years and then sold it there might be a capital gains tax liability, if it had appreciated in value. To that end, it is probably wise to keep all the receipts accrued to offset any appreciation. Of course, if you can claim that you "found" the coins in a Coinstar bucket or while metal detecting you could probably avoid the inheritance tax, but since the capital gains tax is likely to be less than the income tax you might have a choice to make. And since we all know that income is what someone else declares to the government that they paid you, a private sale to an individual for cash doesn't leave a paper trail. But good luck finding a private collector willing to pay you $500K in cash and who doesn't want some kind of paperwork for their own protection. Fortunately, that's why we have filthy rich Japanese business men who like to collect things and hate public documentation of what they collect. That's how I plan to unload the Lost Aztec Gold if I find it...

I know this is an old topic...I read the first post then jumped to the last page.....Finding a buyer wouldn't be as hard as you think. I get all the tax points and understand what what your saying....But what Terry showed in that first post could be moved fairly fast for cash. How you spent it? That would be the concern, and you can't just shove that in the bank.

For the original question.....I like these topics and hope to one day run into this problem!!! I could move that. It would take a little research. If I was the finder? It would depend on what I needed it for. Just some extra cash and maybe a nice used vehicle? Then I'd just sell a couple tubes and keep the rest in gold form until I needed it. I'm also not a huge material person, I value security more than a new truck, big bass boat, giant house, flashy clothes.....etc. Just having that stashed would kill all financial worries in the world. The peace of mind would be the value for me. "monster boxes" which that probably is, I didn't count the tubes. Are bought and sold everyday. There are plenty of guys out there that have the cash and are willing to spend it if it's a better price than they can buy anywhere else.

Even if you paid the income tax? Not too bad for just finding it. I wouldn't have a problem with that either, I'm not that greedy. There are a ton of routes this could be taken. The guy that thinks he's going to sell it, dump the money in the bank, then go on a spending spree living the high life? Probably wouldn't make it far. haha

 

[MiddenMonster]

I know this is an old topic...I read the first post then jumped to the last page.....Finding a buyer wouldn't be as hard as you think. I get all the tax points and understand what what your saying....But what Terry showed in that first post could be moved fairly fast for cash. How you spent it? That would be the concern, and you can't just shove that in the bank.

I hear you. I was once the guardian for an elderly lady who had a key to a safety deposit box at a bank. Turned out the box rental had terminated many years before, but in tracking this down I asked the lady at the bank if it was common in situations like this for a safety deposit box to have a lot of cash in it. With a deadpan look she told me straight up that it was against their policy for someone to put cash in a safety deposit box. I asked her where people were supposed to stash large amounts of cash, and she told me straight up that you were supposed to deposit it in the bank. Buzzkill.

For the original question.....I like these topics and hope to one day run into this problem!!! I could move that. It would take a little research. If I was the finder? It would depend on what I needed it for. Just some extra cash and maybe a nice used vehicle? Then I'd just sell a couple tubes and keep the rest in gold form until I needed it. I'm also not a huge material person, I value security more than a new truck, big bass boat, giant house, flashy clothes.....etc. Just having that stashed would kill all financial worries in the world. The peace of mind would be the value for me. "monster boxes" which that probably is, I didn't count the tubes. Are bought and sold everyday. There are plenty of guys out there that have the cash and are willing to spend it if it's a better price than they can buy anywhere else.

Even if you paid the income tax? Not too bad for just finding it. I wouldn't have a problem with that either, I'm not that greedy. There are a ton of routes this could be taken. The guy that thinks he's going to sell it, dump the money in the bank, then go on a spending spree living the high life? Probably wouldn't make it far. haha

You and I are pretty much on the same wavelength here. I think I'm one of those people who could win a billion dollars in the lottery and it wouldn't change me that much. My lifestyle wouldn't be much different if I had $10 million or $100 billion. I don't want a lot of material things and the peace of mind that comes with financial security would be what I liked best. The original poster makes it easier in using a cache of 1oz. gold coins as the example. They could be stashed and liquidated a couple at a time for a few lifetimes. But if the cache was in gold bars, old paper money, diamonds or other big bulk material that would in and of itself attract attention when liquidating, it becomes much more difficult. I wouldn't have the first idea as to where to go to liquidate it, and would have a hard time trusting anyone I did find who could do it. The main thing to do with gold coins would be to keep your freakin' mouth shut, keep cool and chive on.

 

[seahorse]

Hope there was no hidden cameras also change your name buy another car and get out of dodge

 

[Nitric]

I hear you. I was once the guardian for an elderly lady who had a key to a safety deposit box at a bank. Turned out the box rental had terminated many years before, but in tracking this down I asked the lady at the bank if it was common in situations like this for a safety deposit box to have a lot of cash in it. With a deadpan look she told me straight up that it was against their policy for someone to put cash in a safety deposit box. I asked her where people were supposed to stash large amounts of cash, and she told me straight up that you were supposed to deposit it in the bank. Buzzkill.



You and I are pretty much on the same wavelength here. I think I'm one of those people who could win a billion dollars in the lottery and it wouldn't change me that much. My lifestyle wouldn't be much different if I had $10 million or $100 billion. I don't want a lot of material things and the peace of mind that comes with financial security would be what I liked best. The original poster makes it easier in using a cache of 1oz. gold coins as the example. They could be stashed and liquidated a couple at a time for a few lifetimes. But if the cache was in gold bars, old paper money, diamonds or other big bulk material that would in and of itself attract attention when liquidating, it becomes much more difficult. I wouldn't have the first idea as to where to go to liquidate it, and would have a hard time trusting anyone I did find who could do it. The main thing to do with gold coins would be to keep your freakin' mouth shut, keep cool and chive on.

I agree! I would love to run into the problem though!!

I can tell you, and I've mentioned this before in the threads. I was helping liquidate an estate.. Things stashed every where. Within some boxes I pulled out an old box, looked like one of the old piano player roll boxes. It had 5 or 6 of those tubes in it, I shut the lid real quick....and had to think about it for a few minutes.......I did give it to the owners wife. So..I know what I'd do in that type situation. That was years ago, and I think about that often. Like....Dang, that would have changed my life, and didn't matter all that much to that family, they had millions. Still glad I did the right thing....Still makes you think though...What if I would have taken them? It wouldn't have hurt them one bit, would have changed my life., and no one would have known. hahaha But That is why I had the reputation that I did. I was very trusted and sometimes that's worth more than the Gold.

 

[rcb187]

I agree! I would love to run into the problem though!!

I can tell you, and I've mentioned this before in the threads. I was helping liquidate an estate.. Things stashed every where. Within some boxes I pulled out an old box, looked like one of the old piano player roll boxes. It had 5 or 6 of those tubes in it, I shut the lid real quick....and had to think about it for a few minutes.......I did give it to the owners wife. So..I know what I'd do in that type situation. That was years ago, and I think about that often. Like....Dang, that would have changed my life, and didn't matter all that much to that family, they had millions. Still glad I did the right thing....Still makes you think though...What if I would have taken them? It wouldn't have hurt them one bit, would have changed my life., and no one would have known. hahaha But That is why I had the reputation that I did. I was very trusted and sometimes that's worth more than the Gold.

ooof! the universe has not presented me with such an opportunity. if the people of the estate sale were very kind and courteous, and seemingly hard up for money, i would 100% give it back. but on the other hand if they were already wealthy and had a mercdez benz + bmw, perfume u can smell 2 miles away, and gaudy jewelry, u better belive that is coming home with me and ill share it with my poor friends. ...