Death Traps??

[Backwoodsbob]

I haven't heard no one on here talk about some of the other signs of death traps. The lightning bolt is not the only sign. If you see an eagle in attack mode it from above. Cave in. What about the dog? They tell you everything to those who can read it. They will have stones that will show how the cave is laid out. Even where traps are. Look for a priest with his hand out or pointing. It will be a small picture among other thing. Look for a stick figure who looks like it falling. Floor trap.. a mine is one thing a vault is another.. a vault will be heavily built and traps will be used. Who know the vault symbol? A jesuit vault symbol.a

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[Livinglegend6]

There's a YouTuber that goes by xhunter. Idk if it's legit but he finds all kinds of gold cache sites and death traps and what not.

 

[Livinglegend6]

He wears a mask and whatnot so seems legit to me.

 

[Clueman]

Has anyone ever come across a death trap protecting a cache, or evidence of one that was "sprung" and the cache long gone?

It would be great to see some pictures of real Death traps in situ!!

 

[Clueman]

Has anyone ever come across a death trap protecting a cache, or evidence of one that was "sprung" and the cache long gone?

It would be great to see some pictures of real Death traps in situ!!

How about finding one with a hand arrestra inside a back filled spring made cave. I opened first 33 feet following carvings. Lightning bolts, and treasure carvings. TRIANGLE PENETRATING TRIANGLE. also UCA LQ
Q. 4 divided by V5 and g54 and Spermy snakes like in lou Layton book. Also church references
All on private land.
Layout like they read Kenworthys death traps book.
Have been trying to get legal access for over 20 yrs.
Ready to give up and publish story .
However I suck at writing.

I believe over 25 mil value.
IN ARKANSAS
Maybe I should tell Warren G. And the FBI.

But Death traps are REAL.

 

[Jeff H]

My wife's giant sized pocketbook is a death trap. I won't stick my hand in it. I am pretty sure she has a few rabid wolverines somewhere in there.

 

[MiddenMonster]

I opened first 33 feet following carvings. Lightning bolts, and treasure carvings. TRIANGLE PENETRATING TRIANGLE. also UCA LQ
Q. 4 divided by V5 and g54 and Spermy snakes like in lou Layton book. Also church references
All on private land.

Have been trying to get legal access for over 20 yrs.

You'd think that after 33' the "legal access" jazz would be a moot point. Why not shoot for 40'? Or 50'? Like they say, in for a penny, in for a pound...

 

[Clueman]

You'd think that after 33' the "legal access" jazz would be a moot point. Why not shoot for 40'? Or 50'? Like they say, in for a penny, in for a pound...

Exploration and dig efforts at the site were legal in the beginning. Property was owned by a family collectively. Various members died and dig was halted. Numerous efforts including extravagant cash outlays for legal access and offers to purchase were repeatedly rejected. But this thread is supposed to be about death traps and they are real one is at this site internally in the cave system , just passed the arrestra. Another death message was given in the form of a coffin shaped Rock the size of a human coffin that had to be removed to enter.

 

[MiddenMonster]

Exploration and dig efforts at the site were legal in the beginning. Property was owned by a family collectively. Various members died and dig was halted. Numerous efforts including extravagant cash outlays for legal access and offers to purchase were repeatedly rejected. But this thread is supposed to be about death traps and they are real one is at this site internally in the cave system , just passed the arrestra. Another death message was given in the form of a coffin shaped Rock the size of a human coffin that had to be removed to enter.

My first question would be why don't the surviving members of the family excavate this cave? It's no secret that I don't believe there are any functioning death traps out there from several centuries ago. I believe they existed, but metal rusts, wood rots and the Earth never sits still. So as I see it, all of them are now defunctified. But given what you've described, what kind of treasure do you think is there? That's an incredibly elaborate and complex setup you describe. For someone to go to that much trouble it would almost have to be the jackpot of all caches ever found in the United States.

But I am also skeptical by nature when it comes to treasure. If you are not, you can go down the rabbit hole pretty quickly if the bug gets you. A couple of years ago a guy posted here about a treasure he just knew was buried under his house. He dug a vertical shaft under his house that went down 50' or so, and he planned to keep digging for several more feet. He justified it scripturally via "Seek and ye shall find". But he couldn't logically explain why someone would dig so deep to bury what he appeared to believe was KGC gold. Bottom line is that the elaborateness of hiding a treasure is directly proportional to how valuable that treasure is. You wouldn't hide a hundred dollar bill behind several hidden doors and protect it with traps and misdirection. So what kind of treasure do you think is in this cave that would justify the measures you describe to hide it?

 

[Clueman]

My first question would be why don't the surviving members of the family excavate this cave? It's no secret that I don't believe there are any functioning death traps out there from several centuries ago. I believe they existed, but metal rusts, wood rots and the Earth never sits still. So as I see it, all of them are now defunctified. But given what you've described, what kind of treasure do you think is there? That's an incredibly elaborate and complex setup you describe. For someone to go to that much trouble it would almost have to be the jackpot of all caches ever found in the United States.

But I am also skeptical by nature when it comes to treasure. If you are not, you can go down the rabbit hole pretty quickly if the bug gets you. A couple of years ago a guy posted here about a treasure he just knew was buried under his house. He dug a vertical shaft under his house that went down 50' or so, and he planned to keep digging for several more feet. He justified it scripturally via "Seek and ye shall find". But he couldn't logically explain why someone would dig so deep to bury what he appeared to believe was KGC gold. Bottom line is that the elaborateness of hiding a treasure is directly proportional to how valuable that treasure is. You wouldn't hide a hundred dollar bill behind several hidden doors and protect it with traps and misdirection. So what kind of treasure do you think is in this cave that would justify the measures you describe to hide it?

The carvings and glyphs show symbols for gold , silver, copper as well as church property.

Quantities based on carvings exceed 400 lbs gold ore. Don't know silver quantity. Symbols also show 54 little bars of gold (separate location)
Biggest mystery is why recovery not occurring. At one point they were offered 1000 / day for contract to complete. Why stop? I have no answer. I may offer book with all signs, sketches, pics, and summary of dig history with GPS, and owners contact info.

 

[MiddenMonster]

Quantities based on carvings exceed 400 lbs gold ore. Don't know silver quantity. Symbols also show 54 little bars of gold (separate location)

Why would anyone wanting to hide treasure provide an inventory list available to anyone? Are there really people out there who would see the carvings and say, "Crap, only 400 lbs of gold? Nope. I'm going to keep looking for the 800 lb stash..."

Kind of defeats the purpose of hiding treasure, doesn't it? It's one thing to mark where a treasure is hidden. But itemizing it for all the world to see? Why?

Biggest mystery is why recovery not occurring. At one point they were offered 1000 / day for contract to complete. Why stop? I have no answer. I may offer book with all signs, sketches, pics, and summary of dig history with GPS, and owners contact info.

Hmmm...turning down $1,000/day for a chance to get a cut of 400 lbs of gold and 54 little bars of gold. I'm going out on a limb here, but my guess is that they don't believe it exists.

 

[Clueman]

Why would anyone wanting to hide treasure provide an inventory list available to anyone? Are there really people out there who would see the carvings and say, "Crap, only 400 lbs of gold? Nope. I'm going to keep looking for the 800 lb stash..."

Kind of defeats the purpose of hiding treasure, doesn't it? It's one thing to mark where a treasure is hidden. But itemizing it for all the world to see? Why?



Hmmm...turning down $1,000/day for a chance to get a cut of 400 lbs of gold and 54 little bars of gold. I'm going out on a limb here, but my guess is that they don't believe it exists.

If they didn't believe there was a goodie there, or multiple Rewards, then what's the risk in taking $1,000 a day to let someone else check it out if they looked for 30 days and found nothing you'd be 30,000 ahead with zero risk.

 

[MiddenMonster]

If they didn't believe there was a goodie there, or multiple Rewards, then what's the risk in taking $1,000 a day to let someone else check it out if they looked for 30 days and found nothing you'd be 30,000 ahead with zero risk.

Two reasons. One is that they didn't want people rummaging around on their property. There would have to be some pretty solid indemnification going on to protect them from any lawsuits. I know that would be my concern, and I would be very hesitant to let anyone do that on my property. $30,000 could be soaked up pretty quickly by lawyers, and those that are paying it out could also use it as leverage to keep from paying in the event of injury or death. Legal risk is just as much risk as anything else. The second reason would be that they believe there is treasure there, and are searching for it themselves. To some extent there could also be a third reason: They believe they are being conned. While most people are quick to jump at easy money, others become suspicious, believing that anything that seems too good to be true probably is. That's where words like "roper","stall","inside man" and "blow off" come into play. Country folk tend to fall into that second category.

 

[Clueman]

Two reasons. One is that they didn't want people rummaging around on their property. There would have to be some pretty solid indemnification going on to protect them from any lawsuits. I know that would be my concern, and I would be very hesitant to let anyone do that on my property. $30,000 could be soaked up pretty quickly by lawyers, and those that are paying it out could also use it as leverage to keep from paying in the event of injury or death. Legal risk is just as much risk as anything else. The second reason would be that they believe there is treasure there, and are searching for it themselves. To some extent there could also be a third reason: They believe they are being conned. While most people are quick to jump at easy money, others become suspicious, believing that anything that seems too good to be true probably is. That's where words like "roper","stall","inside man" and "blow off" come into play. Country folk tend to fall into that second category.

 

[Clueman]

I appreciate your thoughts, although possible , they are not applicable in this case. One of the family members saw the evidence and was a believer. (now deceased) Upon his passing, inheritor said she would honor the tradition, and has repeatedly denied legal access. They live 30 miles away. Many have tried to purchase site, to no avail.
A truly professional hunter believed owners being compensated to prevent completion. I don't know.
The whole ordeal is bizarre. Site contains the only Hand arrastra I found, or heard of in my 40 years of treasure hunting experience.
It remains a Treasure Mystery of the Ozarks.

 

[DizzyDigger]

What is a "hand arrastra"?

 

[MiddenMonster]

One of the family members saw the evidence and was a believer. (now deceased) Upon his passing, inheritor said she would honor the tradition, and has repeatedly denied legal access. They live 30 miles away. Many have tried to purchase site, to no avail.
A truly professional hunter believed owners being compensated to prevent completion.

Sounds like the heir is the one who doesn't believe there is treasure there. And who would be paying off the heir to "prevent completion"? Things don't just happen for no reason. Why would someone refuse money from someone who is searching for treasure, but accept money from someone trying to prevent it? And what does the person compensating the owner have to gain?

What is a "hand arrastra"?

Arrastra

 

[Clueman]

Sounds like the heir is the one who doesn't believe there is treasure there. And who would be paying off the heir to "prevent completion"? Things don't just happen for no reason. Why would someone refuse money from someone who is searching for treasure, but accept money from someone trying to prevent it? And what does the person compensating the owner have to gain?



Arrastra

As noted in Kenworthys book, Death Traps to Treasure ( details about Spanish and Mexican symbols and methodology), a hand arrastra is a small arrastra, used only in the mining of visible gold deposits. A worker could sit on the edge and break up ore in the bowl shaped area. As ore gets beaten , any gold would , aided by water flowing, drop down the sides of the bowl and accumulate in the sunken cup in the center of the bowl. A cup on a rod could be removed from the center gold hole, and emptied, then put back for more to be gathered.

 

[Clueman]

Two reasons. One is that they didn't want people rummaging around on their property. There would have to be some pretty solid indemnification going on to protect them from any lawsuits. I know that would be my concern, and I would be very hesitant to let anyone do that on my property. $30,000 could be soaked up pretty quickly by lawyers, and those that are paying it out could also use it as leverage to keep from paying in the event of injury or death. Legal risk is just as much risk as anything else. The second reason would be that they believe there is treasure there, and are searching for it themselves. To some extent there could also be a third reason: They believe they are being conned. While most people are quick to jump at easy money, others become suspicious, believing that anything that seems too good to be true probably is. That's where words like "roper","stall","inside man" and "blow off" come into play. Country folk tend to fall into that second category.

In this state, owners are indemnified by law from damages sought by those entering a cave on their property. Arkansas is enter at your own risk. Source was research from my dearly departed wife who was both criminal lawyer, and for 3 yrs Prosecutor. (Possible exception of owners gross negligence causing whatever litigated suit for damage) It may be different in Mo., I don't know.

Remember in the beginning of this adventure, owner sent people to get me to decipher symbols he'd seen while following up on stories he'd heard about a Spanish, as well as a German treasure story. Members of owners family were aware of possible treasure secreted long before my involvement. Current owners father was a believer in the treasure, although he thought it was about 1/8 of a mile away from what I'd found.
The family members have been city folks for three generations. Or are you saying I'm the country blow off guy?

The Mystery of The Treasure near Eureka Springs persists.

 

[MiddenMonster]

The family members have been city folks for three generations. Or are you saying I'm the country blow off guy?

No. In this analogy, if the family is running a long con you would be the "mark". The "blow off" would be the person who cools you down after they complete the con so you just move on and don't try to track them down. The "roper" would be the person who got you interested in the first place. The "stall" would be the person who is holding things up now to keep/increase your interest and/or get you to commit more resources. The "inside man" would be the person who set it all up and manages the whole thing. Rockford Files, man! It should be required viewing for everyone.