Death Traps??

[Tom_in_CA]

.....

Possibly when you track the old trails you may see giant Birds, turtles, hearts, knives, diamonds, rabbits and faces.
Once I say a woman carrying a water jug--wearing a diamond earing, over 50 feet tall. I even saw a mythical
"thunderbird" with a wing span of over 600 feet!

Yet if you do not believe me about the traps and the underground tunnels there is no reason anyone would believe me
about the giant hearts, giant snakes, giant hammers and knives, eagles, turtles and ancient trails.

Barton

Surely you're not serious ? This sort of reminds me of my cache-hunting trip to Mexico in the early 1990s. Seems that superstition reigns supreme down there . And everyone's convinced that there's a "treasure in every cave", and a "treasure in every ruin", etc.... And when you ask them "why do you suspect that?", it's always smoke they saw coming from a hole, or sparkles they saw in the night, or a vision they had, or a funny symbol on a nearby rock, etc... Eventually I came to realize they are all the function of over-active imaginations. Sorry to be a kill-joy

 

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[elh]

Beer drinking is not language it's an action. Nothing wrong with beer drinking. Excessive drinking or alcoholism would be a bad thing. Jason wasn't wound too tight he was speaking the truth. Maybe you're wound too tight

Man take drink, drink take drink, drink take man. Civil, IF you are a police officer you should know this more so than others.

 

[Blak bart]

Well ive searched and searched. There is no shortage of pictures of modern day booby traps and death traps. Seems a pot grower in new york decapitated himself after driving his 4 wheeler into a wire trap he had strung up to protect his crop.saw lots of pitfalls and bungee pits, also ieds and grenade traps.as for ancient traps it seems they definitely were used just not viable after hundreds of years.i saw 2 exceptions.one was in ankor watt. It seems some stones were moved to set up a budda statue and a massive slide of sand was unleashed and swept away the budda and crumbled a good part of this particular temple. The trap had been set hundreds of years before.no one was hurt and since then the budda has been set back up.the other example was the red queen of palaneque. seems when the archeologists dug there way through a rockfall in the tomb that they found the tomb and artifacts/treasure were coated with red cinnabar. they were very worried about disturbing it or breathing it or getting any on them.seems it was deliberately put there to poisen intruders. I never new cinnabar was poison. I guess it aint the same as cinnamon lol. No doudt they existed but seems like 99.9 percent are not viable after hundreds of years. HAte to be the guy that finds the trap that falls into that .1 percent. watch out for those hidden pot crops on your way to the treasure spots, they could definatly beset up with traps.a keys man 2 years ago was decapitated by a wire strung across a road in North carolina.he was in a dispute with a neighbor about road access.the neighbors strung a wire across the road and he drove his 4 wheeler right into it. IT hit him in the torso and almost cut him in half .his young son was on the back and was not hurt.but had to watch his father die. THe neighbor is in jail now. There is a cool pic of the red queens skull and coins all covered in red cinnabar online.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Well ive searched and searched. There is no shortage of pictures of modern day booby traps and death traps. Seems a pot grower in new york decapitated himself after driving his 4 wheeler into a wire trap he had strung up to protect his crop.saw lots of pitfalls and bungee pits, also ieds and grenade traps.as for ancient traps it seems they definitely were used just not viable after hundreds of years.i saw 2 exceptions.one was in ankor watt. It seems some stones were moved to set up a budda statue and a massive slide of sand was unleashed and swept away the budda and crumbled a good part of this particular temple. The trap had been set hundreds of years before.no one was hurt and since then the budda has been set back up.the other example was the red queen of palaneque. seems when the archeologists dug there way through a rockfall in the tomb that they found the tomb and artifacts/treasure were coated with red cinnabar. they were very worried about disturbing it or breathing it or getting any on them.seems it was deliberately put there to poisen intruders. I never new cinnabar was poison. I guess it aint the same as cinnamon lol. No doudt they existed but seems like 99.9 percent are not viable after hundreds of years. HAte to be the guy that finds the trap that falls into that .1 percent. watch out for those hidden pot crops on your way to the treasure spots, they could definatly beset up with traps.a keys man 2 years ago was decapitated by a wire strung across a road in North carolina.he was in a dispute with a neighbor about road access.the neighbors strung a wire across the road and he drove his 4 wheeler right into it. IT hit him in the torso and almost cut him in half .his young son was on the back and was not hurt.but had to watch his father die. THe neighbor is in jail now. There is a cool pic of the red queens skull and coins all covered in red cinnabar online.

Ok blak-bart, I'll bite. Let's examine your post:

1) What does booby-traps set up by a pot-grower have to do with metal detecting and treasure ? I mean, sure, if we're talking about "treasure hunting for drugs", then perhaps this would apply ? Perhaps we can all agree that pot-growers "set up booby traps" ? But this is not the subject of this forum. This is "Treasure net", not "drug net".

2) And I bet that the story you speak of, where a booby-trap set by a pot-grower hurt someone, can be found on the net, right ? Eg.: a google news hit, or whatever. Right ?

3) Ok then, can the booby traps from the Buddha booby trap, or the "red queen of palaneque" be found on-line, in the same fashion as the pot-grower booby trap can be found on line ?

And not just "naturally occurring" booby traps that some persons here have alluded to . Like un-safe mine timbers, naturally occurring fumes, normally occurring snakes or critters out in the desert, etc... But actual purposeful set booby-traps ?

 

[Blak bart]

Why yes they can be found with the same search.i searched booby traps protecting treasure.all those stories popped up except the one about the keys man.there was also the top ten booby trapped treasures that popped up, it was all the ones we all know and love oak island, the pyramids , the terracotta warrior's in china etc. the only reason I mentioned the pot growers is because treasure hunters have been known to track far into the bush in search of caches. ALl I said was be careful on your quest.it is not out of the realm of possibility for a good honest md'r to accidently stumble accross a booby trapped pot field and be maimed on his treasure quest . especially guys in California. you know what I mean humboldt co. could probaly be dangerous.i do see your point sorry for getting off subject a bit.

 

[civil_war22]

Man take drink, drink take drink, drink take man. Civil, IF you are a police officer you should know this more so than others.

Someone please explain to this computer genius that on an open forum speaking about beer saying the word beer or even mentioning it is not against the rules. Why bring DUI,DWI, or the consequences drinking irresponsibly out to play. We are talking about having a beer and chilling the heck out. Not going and having a few beers getting in your car and driving around because your mad at someone on treasurenet cause they hurt your feelings. NOW THAT WOULD BE INSANE

 

[Blak bart]

Amidtheruins.com for red queen story
The ankor watt story is in that search too
Im good at getting off subject sorry

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Why yes they can be found with the same search.i searched booby traps protecting treasure.all those stories popped up ...

Blak bart, ok, sorry, let me be more specific : Not just "can the subject [of supposed incidents] pop up on a google word search", but actual news articles (from reputable sources, and not stuff like the national enquirer).

Because, SURE: If you or I google "treasure" + "death traps" or + "booby traps", yes, I have no doubt we'll get many hits. SO TOO can I get "many hits" if I google "Big foot" or "U.F.O.'s" or "alien lizard people" etc..... But those aren't the type google hits I'm speaking of. Any such hits can merely be conjecture on fanciful articles of "it has been said that" or "he said / she said", etc.... type websites.

Instead I'm referring to citations (aka "hits") of documented occurrences. And by "documented", I don't mean like if such hits merely pointed back to archived forum pages like this, where someone says "a guy came to my campfire and told me about such & such" blah blah. But actual news articles, or actual pictures of a treasure booby trap ready to spring, etc...

 

[Blak bart]

Yes Tom you are oh so right. I can not say what I read was fact or legend. There is a lot of info on the red queen out there. The tomb was excavated by Alonso Gonzalez (hope I got that right) an archeological expert in Myan culture. I'm more inclined to believe that the cinnobar was used for decorative purposes but some say it was a poison trap of sorts. One thing is for sure the red queens tomb is awsome. Straight out of the movies. Complete with skeleton and silver objects covered in poison cinnabar dust. Check it out there are a lot of pics and info on it. Thanks for being polite and civil in our conversation. I appreciate that. On the lighter side of things Angelina jolee was just plain hot in " tomb raider"someone sold a lot of push up bras after that movie. Man I hope I don't see an alien lizard alien with a metal detector out there when I'm treasure hunting. Lol.

 

[Barton]

Magnum PI----Post # 1 THE QUESTION WAS:Death Traps??

"Has anyone ever come across a death trap protecting a cache, or evidence of one that was "sprung" and the cache long gone?

It would be great to see some pictures of real Death traps in situ!!"

I answered the question ( and even gave examples of stories I have been told by other other prospectors and trackers.)
To some individuals they will be stories or tall tails--to the trackers and prospectors with experience they will know the
truth when they hear it. Often they will have encountered something similar or even experienced what I speak of.



I have come across DEATH TRAPS protecting a cache site. Traps that have already been tripped--and fully operational ones.
The best book with operational diagrams of them--and this book is excellent is by Charles Kenworthy
In one of my book's--TRACKING WITH ANGELS are photos of a few of the traps ( in situ ) I took a photo of.
There is no trap--diagramed by Kenworthy ( in my opinion ) that he did not personally encounter while out in the field.
Once you are out in the field you will encounter--or at least I do--many of the traps he has diagramed the operation of--and a number
of designs--not in any of his books.

The key concept of the operation--operational principal --of most of the traps--is greed and gravity --plus a understanding of human
behavior.

I usually do not put out photos of ANY STONE MARKERS--of Ancient times as then they do not have the impact to my readers--Oh I have seen that before,
or he stole that photo, or I saw that photo on the internet--the photos in my books--are original--and have never been published before--at least I want
that to be the case. In spite of that I have seen my photos on the internet and even in others peoples books used with out my permission.

Another legal consideration a tracker must always keep in mine is the laws of the country he is tracking in.
There are some things you DXX Well better not photograph if you have any common sense.
As the saying goes--some people have common sense--but often times common sense is mighty uncommon.

When KVM published photos of a "Cave of GOLD"--with the gold bars going back as far as the eye can see--
he had numerous threats on his and his families life--including them burning down his building /store--Examino
He also had every ASSET of his seized by the US federal government--even his house and bank accounts were seized
when he returned home--there were new pad locks on his house and notices by the US govt that it was property seized by
the government of the United States.

When Frank Fish published photos of gold and coins he found--he was murdered and his display cases containing gold
and silver were all robbed.

When Charles Garette displayed numerous silver coins--and the photos were published--his coin collections were also stolen

I could go on--but it is a fact of life--some governments and some people --operate with a sense of what is fair and right--
they have dignity , honor and integrity as my best friend Dan used to often say--and in some--the quality's of
dignity, honor and integrity are lacking.

Barton

​

 

[Jason in Enid]

I have a very hard time believing that the "red queen" was any form of a "death trap". Cinnabar is the raw ore form of mercury. Yes, mercury is dangerous but its nothing immediately lethal. Even long term exposure takes a really long time to become fatal. Its impossible to know why it was used, especially since this was the only spot it was used. I would hazard a guess that it was some form of attempted mummification by acting as an antimicrobial.

 

[MiddenMonster]

I have a very hard time believing that the "red queen" was any form of a "death trap". Cinnabar is the raw ore form of mercury. Yes, mercury is dangerous but its nothing immediately lethal. Even long term exposure takes a really long time to become fatal. Its impossible to know why it was used, especially since this was the only spot it was used. I would hazard a guess that it was some form of attempted mummification by acting as an antimicrobial.

Cinnabar is used like red ochre, for decorative purposes:

Cinnabar
Cinnabar has been used for its color since antiquity in the Near East, including as a rouge-type cosmetic, in the New World since the Olmec culture, and in China since as early as the Song dynasty, where it was used in coloring lacquerware.

Cinnabar's use as a color in the New World, since the Olmec culture, is exemplified by its use in royal burial chambers during the peak of Maya civilization, most dramatically in the Tomb of the Red Queen in Palenque (600–700 AD), where the remains of a noble woman and objects belonging to her in her sarcophagus were completely covered with bright red powder made from cinnabar.

It wasn't used as a poison or in a death trap.

 

[MiddenMonster]

I have come across DEATH TRAPS protecting a cache site. Traps that have already been tripped--and fully operational ones.

Finding a "fully operational" death trap strongly implies that the treasure it was protecting is still there and waiting to be found. Did you disarm the death trap and earn your riches, or did you promptly leave the area, wisely abandoning the unknown treasure and escaping certain death?

In one of my book's--TRACKING WITH ANGELS are photos of a few of the traps ( in situ ) I took a photo of.

Since they are your pictures, you own the rights to the. Why not post a couple?

When KVM published photos of a "Cave of GOLD"--with the gold bars going back as far as the eye can see--
he had numerous threats on his and his families life--including them burning down his building /store--Examino
He also had every ASSET of his seized by the US federal government--even his house and bank accounts were seized
when he returned home--there were new pad locks on his house and notices by the US govt that it was property seized by
the government of the United States.

When Frank Fish published photos of gold and coins he found--he was murdered and his display cases containing gold
and silver were all robbed.

When Charles Garette displayed numerous silver coins--and the photos were published--his coin collections were also stolen

On this I think we will all agree. Flapping jaws may be the most dangerous death trap out there. Second to that is flaunting your bling, also known as the Kardashian effect.

 

[MiddenMonster]

It seems some stones were moved to set up a budda statue and a massive slide of sand was unleashed and swept away the budda and crumbled a good part of this particular temple. The trap had been set hundreds of years before.no one was hurt and since then the budda has been set back up.

How do we know this was a death trap, and not some failure of engineering in the temple or the way they were setting up the Buddha? We've all seen pictures of the idiot who cuts down a large tree that falls on his house, or some other engineering mistake that results in a structure toppling. I'm also skeptical that moving "some stones" could set off such a "massive slide of sand", while leaving those stones in place could hold back the sand. Ancient Egyptians used to stand their tall obelisks up by constructing a massive box made of stones, then filling it with sand and building a ramp up to one side of the box. They would drag the obelisk up the ramp, laying on its side and use mathematical calculations to position the base end. Then they would pull a stone from the box to let the sand pour out. As the sand drained the obelisk would begin to slowly tilt downward on to a pedestal until a corner of its base rested in a stabilizing groove in the pedestal, when it could then be pulled the last few degrees into its final, vertical position. What I am getting at is that if you have enoug weight in rocks to hold back a quantity of sand, removing a few rock isn't going to unleash that quantity of sand all at once. It's going to come spilling out of the opening left by the removed rocks like sand in an hourglass. Whether it's sand pouring out of an opening in rocks or liquid through a hose, no matter how much pressure you put behind it only so much material can fit through a fixed opening in a given time.

 

[Blak bart]

I agree with you midden monster. as I stated in my post I believe it was used in a decorative manor. Others belive it was more sinister in its liberal application inside the tomb covering all the artifacts and tomb not just the body. As for not being an immediate threat to health im not so sure.the maximum life span of prisoners serving in the mines was about 3 years.thats handling it in its mineral form, not the finally pulverized form found in the red queens tomb. I sure wouldnt want to stir up a dust cloud and breathe it. Neither did arnoldo gonzalez cruz whos name I got wrong in my previous post.as for ankor watt poor engineering and bad construction seems more plausible to me.others believe that these temples were made to collapse when desecrated. They will say that there was no reason to place sand at the top of a 50 meter high temple. But it could br there for stone placement like the obelisks of egypt.either way the temple went from 50 to 34 meters in height while people were, well, desecrateing it.dont no when the collapse occured but budda was restored in 1960. Again for the record I believe that the red cinnabar was a sign of nobility and used for decorative purpose. I believe that the temple at baophor collapsed because some one pulled on the wrong load bearing stones.but im not 100% sure or an expert by any means.just wanted to show both sides of the coin and why people believed that these were booby traps.any way I wish someone could show us even a tripped one.ive really enjoyed reading about death traps.cool topic magnum.hope to see a pic soon. Come on barton show us 1 little pic.

 

[Blak bart]

You know what ..... im gonna by your book barton. Real or not I want to see for myself. Cant hurt to help a fellow t-net member

 

[Blak bart]

I can direct you to one left by the Spanish its near the Grayson Reservoir in Kentucky. I posted this and a pic on another t hunting site and the idiots banned me! I had only been there for the one posting...the moderator thought I was trying to get someone killed--by letting them believe in death traps?! haha what an idiot... they do exist and these old ones are pretty clever and don't use metal so no rusty springs or metal mechanisms. Just rock and maybe a locust post. This one has a rock the size of a Volkswagen ready to drop on someone messing around in the mine. The mechanism is other rocks that were stacked on a locust post...which if moved makes the big rock slide down on the entrance. If you want directions or a picture PM me.

Hey curtis please post your pic. I remember seeing it.

 

[MiddenMonster]

as for ankor watt poor engineering and bad construction seems more plausible to me.others believe that these temples were made to collapse when desecrated. They will say that there was no reason to place sand at the top of a 50 meter high temple. But it could br there for stone placement like the obelisks of egypt.either way the temple went from 50 to 34 meters in height while people were, well, desecrateing it.

Wikipedia has some interesting information that sheds light on both the sand placement and tangentially, "death traps" surviving for several centuries:

Central structure
"The tower above the central shrine rises 43 m (141 ft) to a height of 65 m (213 ft) above the ground; unlike those of previous temple mountains, the central tower is raised above the surrounding four. The shrine itself, originally occupied by a statue of Vishnu and open on each side, was walled in when the temple was converted to Theravada Buddhism, the new walls featuring standing Buddhas. In 1934, the conservator George Trouvé excavated the pit beneath the central shrine: filled with sand and water it had already been robbed of its treasure, but he did find a sacred foundation deposit of gold leaf two metres above ground level."

Restoration and conservation
"As with most other ancient temples in Cambodia, Angkor Wat has faced extensive damage and deterioration by a combination of plant overgrowth, fungi, ground movements, war damage and theft."

The first quote from Wikipedia provides some evidence that you may be correct in the use of sand. The sand could have been used as support for the central shrine while it was being built, and then as much sand as possible was drained after it was in place to create the opening. Sure beats trying to lift it over the existing construction after it's been built next to the temple.

The second quote provides a good illustration of what the elements do to man made structures, even if they are made of stone.

 

[smokeythecat]

Hey! I ain't going in no cave, nowhere, nohow. Not worth the normal icky things there. Let alone traps.

 

[Barton]

Blak bart--Post 76

I should warn you---my books are MOSTLY ABOUT TWO TEENAGE GIRLS WHOM TALK AND WORK WITH ANGLES--SO MOSTLY
MY BOOKS ARE STORIES OF ANGELS.

The spanish markers are shown as they relate to the adventures the two girls had while TRACKING WITH ANGELS.
The books are available through Amazon as a book or if your counting your pennies you can save 75% buying a e-book
If you have trouble ordering a book--just let me know--and I will try and help

I think you will enjoy "72 Hours in the Sonoran Desert"--in the book Tracking With Angels
Alot can happen in the desert in 72 hours.

Should you really like the book in another book: Justice of the Angles is another story that takes place
in both New Mexico and Arizona--"500 Dollars in Gold" is one of my favorite stories about how a
teenage girl hires three men and pays each of them $ 500 in gold as she promised them.
This too takes place in the Sonoran Desert of Southern Arizona down near the border with Mexico
and this story is based upon a real treasure circle.
I should tell every one here though--there is only one photo of a Spanish Marker in that book and only
one photo of old gold coins. So if your looking for photos of Spanish Markers this is not the book for
you--these are mostly stories of people and their encounters with Angels. All my books are about
an old Lakota Indian and his teaching some teenage girls how to track--and the numerous Angels they encounter.

Then your welcome to tell everyone here on TreasureNet what you think of them.

Should you order any book from me they are $ 20 and I will cover all the shipping
Barton Thom
P. O. Box 603
Abiquiu, NM 87510