Death Traps??

[Crosse De Sign]

I suspect if we pitted and weighted the "end results" of those who subscribe to the legends, death traps and treasure rooms conspiracies, versus the "end results" of mine, that you'd be at the loosing end of those scales.

Ie.: how many treasures (gold and silver coins) have you found with your death-traps/treasure rooms notions and theories ?

But alas, I realize you guys could not be forthcoming with any "finds" for show & tell. Because, alas, you fear the IRS (taxes), claim-jumpers, and thieves that would target your house. Right ? And besides, those "death traps" kept you from getting into the treasure rooms. Or laws that forbid extraction of the treasure from the federal or state land (but rest assured you narrowed it down to a certain canyon or lake bottom or cave or whatever).

This has been my experience with anyone touting ... uh ... "un-conventional" TH'ing means/theories. If/when you ever come down the "proof in the pudding" test, there is never any put forth (or... at least not that simply had "more plausible explanations"). The "un-conventional" will immediately have 6 or 7 pat reasons why there is no treasure/finds for them to show. But ... rest assured .... they're finding big ticket treasures . Hmmmm.

Tom, hit a little nerve eh?

Remember the specific thread title & subject:DEATH TRAPS...
Just because you can talk about your reales, that you were fortunate to find
& enjoy bragging on, doesn't mean ye know everythin' 'bout TH'ing, does it ?
Since you know all the answers, I strongly suspect that ye may know alots
more than yer talking about. Only said have seen death traps, the subject...
You don't have to get so snippy about it, ok your right, no traps near you
Really?
...

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[Tom_in_CA]

... doesn't mean ye know everythin' 'bout TH'ing, does it ?
....

Ok, admit I lumped "legends" and "crytograms" and all such Raiders of the Lost Ark stuff in with the notion of "death traps".

So let's take a count of death traps that you can refer me to as examples ?

But alas, ANY impediment that comes into play to stop/thwart you from getting to what/where you think a treasure is, will ... by definition ... be a trap.

For example: The clowns that look for Oak Island treasure. After going xxx feet down into the ground, they bump into various impediments. Eg.: flooding tunnels, sides that cave in, solid rock, etc... To any one else, those are just normal impediments you could expect to bump into ANYWHERE on earth, if you dug that deep so close to the ocean. But for the TH'rs : Nnnneeooohh, they are "traps" that were purposefully designed to thwart would-be TH'Rs 300+ yrs. later. Right ?

Or how about the guys in the Phillipines who find a clue (funny squiggles on rocks, or etched arrows, or a map they bought on the street corner in Manilla, etc...). They dig to insane depths, only to ultimately find nothing at all. Well to the average person this would mean that the clue was actually just random scribbles/marks. Or a map that was made up and fake. And would conclude "there's no treasure here".

But TO THE FAITHFUL: No amount of failure means the treasure's not there. It's simply deeper, eh ? Then if the hole caves in or fills with water, then the faithful decipher that to be cleverly devised traps that Yamashita purposefully put in there.

Or if they FINALLY CONCLUDE that there is TRULY NO TREASURE THERE, then you WOULD THINK that would cause them to have doubt on the whole enterprise, right ? But no. It just gets them all-the-more excited. Because that merely means the squiggle on rocks the say, or the map they bought, was merely a purposeful decoy map to "throw you off-track" to dig in the wrong place. very ingenious .

See how that works ? NOTHING can be seen as random or treasure-not-being there. EVERYTHING is seen in the light of Booby traps and decoy markers.

My buddy and I just got back from So. CA and NV desert hunting. We got stuck with his 4wd out in the middle of nowhwere, and we had to spend 1 hr. hand-shoveling ourselves out of the soft sand. Was that just random dudes "getting stuck" ? Or was that some devious plans of the gold-buriers to keep us away from the prize. Cleverly foreknown to happen in 1850 yrs, eh ? BTW: We got seateds, barbers, and an 1844 1 reale on this trip. Never bumped into a single "trap". Oh .... wait .... was getting his 4wd jeep stuck in the sand a cleverly devised trap attempt ? Amazing they'd know we'd be passing that exact spot 150 yrs. later. Lucky for us it didn't contain poison darts. Phhheeww

 

[relic lover]

Raiders of the Lost Ark really happened dammit

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Raiders of the Lost Ark really happened dammit

And the reason it got classified as "fiction" was a purposeful decoy to throw would be treasure hunters off the right path. The reality is: We need to take it a true and non-fiction. Employ and expect all such impediments. If we *really* want to be serious and find treasures.

swashbuckling warriors with swords on camels to chase us around. Poisonous snakes. Poison darts . Cryptograms cipher clues, coded squiggles on rocks, gravity traps, men in trench coats spying on your, etc.... All such ingredients are for the *serious* treasure hunter.

 

[DiamondDan]

Guys, guys... please be civil. Let's just settle this the old-fasioned-way: Photo Dowsing!

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Guys, guys... please be civil. Let's just settle this the old-fasioned-way: Photo Dowsing!

Even better, Aura Capturing...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Guys, guys... please be civil. Let's just settle this the old-fasioned-way: Photo Dowsing!

Even better, Aura Capturing...

You guys are both wrong. The only totally legit way to do it: Is reading bird entrails.

It's totally scientific. Albeit as yet "un-discovered" science . Just like they once though the earth was flat, therefore no one can doubt my entrails-reading method. And I bet I can find someone with "personal testimony" of how it helped them find treasure. After all, you have to "harness the power of the mind". You don't want to be a "Debbie-downer".

 

[Maverick1]

Sorry to interrupt,…but is photo-dowsing just as good as dodo-phowsing?
I must say, I don’t know much about either, but that bird thing, man…that, I gots to try.
Oh,…and how do you really…”capture” an au-aura? …does the thing, fight back?
…who Debbie?

 

[ancient_ghost2004]

I suspect if we pitted and weighted the "end results" of those who subscribe to the legends, death traps and treasure rooms conspiracies, versus the "end results" of mine, that you'd be at the loosing end of those scales.

Ie.: how many treasures (gold and silver coins) have you found with your death-traps/treasure rooms notions and theories ?

But alas, I realize you guys could not be forthcoming with any "finds" for show & tell. Because, alas, you fear the IRS (taxes), claim-jumpers, and thieves that would target your house. Right ? And besides, those "death traps" kept you from getting into the treasure rooms. Or laws that forbid extraction of the treasure from the federal or state land (but rest assured you narrowed it down to a certain canyon or lake bottom or cave or whatever).

This has been my experience with anyone touting ... uh ... "un-conventional" TH'ing means/theories. If/when you ever come down the "proof in the pudding" test, there is never any put forth (or... at least not that simply had "more plausible explanations"). The "un-conventional" will immediately have 6 or 7 pat reasons why there is no treasure/finds for them to show. But ... rest assured .... they're finding big ticket treasures . Hmmmm.

lmao so treasures don't exist? what you call theories and hogwash really isn't accurate at all, I have a treasure site so I would know. and what you continue to post is so far from the truth. I could take and show you a real treasure site, but wait you might step on my toes and say it didn't exist if you were looking at it with your own eyes. you and other people who post in this forum are what's wrong with this world! keep trolling my friend

 

[DiamondDan]

lmao so treasures don't exist? what you call theories and hogwash really isn't accurate at all, I have a treasure site so I would know. and what you continue to post is so far from the truth. I could take and show you a real treasure site, but wait you might step on my toes and say it didn't exist if you were looking at it with your own eyes. you and other people who post in this forum are what's wrong with this world! keep trolling my friend

And I have a winged Pegasus in my barn. What's that? Offer some sort of tangible evidence, you say? I will tell you now, sir, that people cannot be trusted and therefore, you will just have to believe me.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... I have a treasure site so I would know..... I could take and show you a real treasure site, but wait you might step on my toes and say it didn't exist....

When you scroll the "today's finds" section of T'net, or other forums, you will see some mighty nice stuff from time to time. Right ? Even some VALUABLE stuff posted for show & tell, right ? And if you scroll the news of general news sources, you will see various found-treasures every year show up in the news (shipwrecks with gold/silver found, caches found in England, CA couple stumbled onto containers of gold coins on their land, blah blah). It's never ending. Why are these people (who used standard detectors, standard evidences, etc...) not afraid to post their show & tell ?

Yet when you ask those who subscribe to unconventional TH'ing methods (who claim to have found treasure rooms, etc...) to "show us", ... it never happens. REST ASSURED their magic wands and death trap cryptogram squiggle marker methods do indeed result in treasures. Right ? But show you/me ? Nope. Ain't gonna happen. As Diamond-Dan also observed.

You can't show anyone because :

a) they wouldn't believe anyhow.

b) afraid of the IRS

c) afraid of claim-jumpers

d) afraid of thieves that would target your house.

e) after all, anyone who take a skeptical look at unconventional means, is "merely a troll".

But rest assured: Treasure rooms are being found by the adherents of these formulas. Just have to take their word for it.

 

[HappyTrails55]

It's very interesting thread going on here, both pro and con, I certainly am enjoying it from both sides I've been working on a Spanish Mine/Treasure site for quite a few years now which just happens to be on my mining claim (a corporate claim with some other friends, but they poo-poo it. so it's up to me ). See, I'm a old guy now (with a little bit of history for this stuff), so about the only major tools I have is my wits and understanding what certain signs might be conveying. I believe I have a good chance of finding this, although I wish I had a 2 box detector or even better yet a OKM GPR. Sure wish I had a 2 box

 

[Tom_in_CA]

happy-trails-55 : Is it possible that those could just be randomly occurring natural rock formations ? And even if seeming to be "un-canny" sometimes in shape: So too if you study any random landscape, you'll eventually find something heart shaped, or a smiley face or triangle, etc....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

There's a state park in Hawaii, that ....... if you're standing on one of the roads, at a certain pull-out sight-seeing vantage point, and look down in a certain valley at a certain time of day: You can see the face of John F. Kennedy in the lava-flow rock formations :

Fragments of an Earlier World - Profile of John F. Kennedy

Ok, let's take a show of hands:

A) random uncanny coincidence ? Or

B) purposed design ?

 

[HappyTrails55]

Oh I have a lot I'm not showing, I have some documentation as well....here's a tidbit that you as well can research...Father Antonio Luis Martinez was the main Padre of San Luis Obispo Mission from 1796 to 1830. He had to retire because the Mexican's Rule kicked him and the other Padres out of California (except for Santa Barbara). So for 34 years he was the head Padre in San Luis Obispo...He also was responsible for the main building of the Assentcia of Santa Margarita (Sub Mission) and the overland route over the La Panza Mountain Range and into the Carissa Plain....The southern route was south of San Luis Obispo up and over the Cuyama and just south of the Machesna (Wilderness) known as the 1. The Horse Thief Trail, 2. The Spanish Trail....Both North and South Trails connected to the Old Veijo Camino that skirted the edge of the Temblor Mountain Range of San Juaoqin Valley....(wish I could spell)....There's a lot to this Padre, believe me, follow the research...Anyhow, so in 1830 he retires and sails back home to Spain, upon his arrival he is promptly Arrested for having over $100,000.00 in Gold in his possession...Of course he doesn't explain it very well to the authorities and is jailed....That is a matter of Historical Record....There's more, but I not going to write a book here. I know the La Panza's very, very well, was raised here in the Paso Robles area and also Cowboy'd out in the Cholame/Bitterwater Country. I know all of the Old Families, am related to many of them and blah, blah, blah, hee,hee...I'm out of a old Ranching Family and my brothers and sisters know every cattleman, rancher, old pioneering families in this area. That north trail out of the old sub mission in Santa Margarita, the Assentcia, travels east to Pozo, then climbs the northside of Pine Mountain (San Jose), drops down into the headwaters of the creek drainage of the Navajo, it divides there, one branch becomes Placer Creek on the east side draining into the San Juan, which is part of the Old La Panza Ranch that once was owned by Drury Woodson James, Uncle of Jesse & Frank James. Drury Woodson James Founded the Town of Paso Robles...The Navajo continues from the division of the branches and flows north........This is the Old Spanish Royal Trail.....The Old Caravan Trail took the Cuyama Trail to the Carissa, then turned north following the San Juan River up to where the La Panza Ranch now resides at close to it's junction with the San Juan. The trail is convienantly marked by a Pyramid Shaped Hill on the Ranch. This is now at the Junction of Hwy 58 & Pozo Road....I believe that Pyramid Shaped Hill is a Ancient Pyramid....It's not a old Volcano, or a Cinder Cone, there is no evidence geologically of any volcanic rocks or hills in the area, but there is of LIMESTONE. (See Pic)...Anyhow, this is where the Caravans with their herds of sheep and cattle would come into and then further on up the canyon to a point of where they would stop and camp and wait for the Spanish miners to come down and parley for their beef and mutton. Documented in History Books of this area, the Padres would also hold Mass in this area as well...I could go on forever it seems like....So, do you have a 2 box ?....Darrell

 

[HappyTrails55]

My finger got stuck on a few pic's here, sorry

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... in 1830 he retires and sails back home to Spain, upon his arrival he is promptly Arrested for having over $100,000.00 in Gold in his possession...Of course he doesn't explain it very well to the authorities and is jailed....That is a matter of Historical Record......

I would have to see this "historical record". Do you have any link ? Or if you have it only in printed form: What is the title of the material or book or source ?

This hits VERY CLOSE TO HOME for me. I'm 1.5 hrs. north of you, in Salinas, CA. I can assure you Happy-trails, IF this clergy showed up somewhere on earth with $100,000 in gold: He did NOT get it from the CA missions.

I have hunted many of the places you talk about. I am a mission docent. I have over 100 reales and over 100 phoenix buttons. Some of them found quite close to you. I've pulled 100+ silver from your downtown park years back. I've found 15 gold coins so far in my 43-ish year career. Although my gold coins are all American (1830s and onward), yet I've hunted side-by-side of those who've found earlier Mexican and Spanish Escudos here in CA. So I feel quite qualified to speak to the subject. And I've found some of the gold coins in the context of sites where, at the same time, we had reales dating back to LOSS/CIRCULATION times of late 1700's onwards. Yet the gold coins were not the earlier mission times losses/dates you speak of.

Let's cut to the chase: People are fumble fingers. Right ? They can loose their prized diamond ring, right ? (as evidenced by beach hunters show & tell forums). They can loose gold coins, right ? (as evidenced by coin/relic hunters show & tell forums). And if they purposefully hide/stash something, it/they sometimes get found, right ? (as evidenced by the show & tell cache story finds). Ok, with that all that in mind:

Tell me of how many escudos (of the pre 1830 date that you speak of) that have been found in CA ? I bet you can't cite a single one. Yet I can cite HUNDREDS of silver reales that have been found between me and my cohorts. And we're talking of places that would make your toes curl and archies roll over in their graves. Dates on coins going back to the mid 1750s. Hence touching on the earliest mission toe-holds in our part of CA all the way through the Mexican period and on to state-hood. Where's all the gold ?

I can cite thousands of yards of soil sifted by archaeologists in the most "holy of holy" sacred ground zero mission archie digs. Yet.... at best ... they come up with some silver reales. And jewelry (medallions, crucifixes, etc... ) are copper and brass. Not gold . So where's all this gold you're talking about ?

All refined metals in this part of the world had to reach here by ship or overland. They were NOT minting coins here. And any natural gold or silver (ie. mining/refining) in Alta CA ended up not being profitable. It was very meager. We were on the remotest ends of the earth. In fact, Spain even wanted , for a time, to discontinue the colonial mission effort here. Why ? BECAUSE OF [supposed] LACK OF RESOURCES [minerals, gold, etc...]. Of course, little did they know what laid in the Sierra Nevada's to be discovered later. BUT IN THE MISSION TIMES, these missions that you speak of were NOT bathing in gold. You've been watching one-too-many Hollywood spaghetti western movie. Sorry.

You can go mission to mission to mission here in CA (all 21 of them) . And view their "dug artifacts" sections of their museum wings . And you will see little to no gold. Yet you'll see all sorts of silver reales, copper trinkets, etc... All of which had to come north for the mission founding effort (trade items, soldier pay, etc...). NO GOLD. Carmel mission, for example, was extensively dug in the 1920s to 1940s . Thanx to the efforts of Harry Downie during the restoration of the quadrangle wings. All the soil that was moved prior to the patio and walls and such, was meticulously sifted/screened. Resulting in dozens of coins, medallions, beads, buttons, blah blah blah. Where's the gold ? Bear in mind Carmel was the capitol of the other 21 missions during Serra's time and afterwards. And Monterey, at the time, was one of the main ocean ports.

You might say: " Well ... they just didn't happen to loose the gold coins. " Ok, then ask yourself: Why the other type coins found ? It's only human nature that there will be a REPRESENTATIVE sampling of the types-goods people carry, in the "midden" of their habitations. You simply can not say it's random coincidence that ...... the missions were bedazzled with gold. Yet.... durnit ... they never lost any of those. Only the copper/silver. In the same way you can't say that if you go beach hunting long enough: You'll only find silver rings. Not gold rings . Because, by golly ... people take better care of their gold rings. HOGWASH: People loose gold rings all the time.

So again I ask you: What is the source of the $100,000 story you cite ? I'll bet you dollars to donuts there's some other "more plausible explanation" at play.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

View attachment 1558188 View attachment 1558188 View attachment 1558190 It's View attachment 1558170 very interesting thread going on here, both pro and con, I certainly am enjoying it from both sides View attachment 1558172 I've been working on a Spanish Mine/Treasure site for quite a few years now which just happens to be on my mining claim (a corporate claim with some other friends, but they poo-poo it. so it's up to me ). See, I'm a old guy now (with a little bit of history for this stuff), so about the only major tools I have is my wits and understanding what certain signs might be conveying. I believe I have a good chance of finding this, although I wish I had a 2 box detector or even better yet a OKM GPR. View attachment 1558180 View attachment 1558181 View attachment 1558182 View attachment 1558183 View attachment 1558184 View attachment 1558185 View attachment 1558186 View attachment 1558187 View attachment 1558187 Sure wish I had a 2 box View attachment 1558192 View attachment 1558188

Happy Trails55,
Hey there's some really nice stuff you're sharing,
Good Luck, & I know you'll watch on them death
traps if you have any. I'd be glad to share my 2 box
with you. You guys are in a very cool place, some of the
best turtles, hearts, etc., I've ever seen. Take care & enjoy.
Thanks for sharing, 2 big thumbs up!
...

~:Crosse:~

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Oh I have a lot I'm not showing, I have some documentation as well....here's a tidbit that you as well can research...Father Antonio Luis Martinez was the main Padre of San Luis Obispo Mission from 1796 to 1830. He had to retire because the Mexican's Rule kicked him and the other Padres out of California (except for Santa Barbara). So for 34 years he was the head Padre in San Luis Obispo...He also was responsible for the main building of the Assentcia of Santa Margarita (Sub Mission) and the overland route over the La Panza Mountain Range and into the Carissa Plain....The southern route was south of San Luis Obispo up and over the Cuyama and just south of the Machesna (Wilderness) known as the 1. The Horse Thief Trail, 2. The Spanish Trail....Both North and South Trails connected to the Old Veijo Camino that skirted the edge of the Temblor Mountain Range of San Juaoqin Valley....(wish I could spell)....There's a lot to this Padre, believe me, follow the research...Anyhow, so in 1830 he retires and sails back home to Spain, upon his arrival he is promptly Arrested for having over $100,000.00 in Gold in his possession...Of course he doesn't explain it very well to the authorities and is jailed....That is a matter of Historical Record....There's more, but I not going to write a book here. I know the La Panza's very, very well, was raised here in the Paso Robles area and also Cowboy'd out in the Cholame/Bitterwater Country. I know all of the Old Families, am related to many of them and blah, blah, blah, hee,hee...I'm out of a old Ranching Family and my brothers and sisters know every cattleman, rancher, old pioneering families in this area. That north trail out of the old sub mission in Santa Margarita, the Assentcia, travels east to Pozo, then climbs the northside of Pine Mountain (San Jose), drops down into the headwaters of the creek drainage of the Navajo, it divides there, one branch becomes Placer Creek on the east side draining into the San Juan, which is part of the Old La Panza Ranch that once was owned by Drury Woodson James, Uncle of Jesse & Frank James. Drury Woodson James Founded the Town of Paso Robles...The Navajo continues from the division of the branches and flows north........This is the Old Spanish Royal Trail.....The Old Caravan Trail took the Cuyama Trail to the Carissa, then turned north following the San Juan River up to where the La Panza Ranch now resides at close to it's junction with the San Juan. The trail is convienantly marked by a Pyramid Shaped Hill on the Ranch. This is now at the Junction of Hwy 58 & Pozo Road....I believe that Pyramid Shaped Hill is a Ancient Pyramid....It's not a old Volcano, or a Cinder Cone, there is no evidence geologically of any volcanic rocks or hills in the area, but there is of LIMESTONE. (See Pic)...Anyhow, this is where the Caravans with their herds of sheep and cattle would come into and then further on up the canyon to a point of where they would stop and camp and wait for the Spanish miners to come down and parley for their beef and mutton. Documented in History Books of this area, the Padres would also hold Mass in this area as well...I could go on forever it seems like....So, do you have a 2 box ?....Darrell View attachment 1558261 View attachment 1558262 View attachment 1558263 View attachment 1558263 View attachment 1558264 View attachment 1558264 View attachment 1558264 View attachment 1558264 View attachment 1558264 View attachment 1558265 View attachment 1558266 View attachment 1558267 View attachment 1558268 View attachment 1558269 View attachment 1558270

Again, some really cool stuff.
Sorry to say, wasting time trying to
enlighten Tom, doubt it would ever happen.
Thanks again for sharing, very Generous, real nice!
...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... wasting time trying to
enlighten Tom....

Enlighten me that any random object that resembles a "turtle" or a "heart" means "certain treasure" ? You ought to come over to my block in Monterey, CA. Or my work/job location in Salinas, CA. There must be treasures there. Because I bet I can walk a block in any direction and .... with enough imagination, can find things that resemble turtle shape or heart shape. And all sorts of other un-canny shapes.