Plumbers strike gold, but who keeps it?

[$CUERVOJ]

Below is a story of a relative from a small ranch town in South Texas. To understand why someone would hide so much of these coins youde have to researh Archie Parr and his evil reign. Lyndon B. Johnson presidental election as well. Anyway, pretty interesting. Cuervoj







Plumbers strike gold, but who keeps it?

Pair, homeowners, builder's kin suing over ownership of old coins

02/02/2003

By SCOTT WILLIAMS / Special Contributor to The Dallas Morning News



SAN DIEGO, Texas - A plumber and his assistant in this South Texas town unearthed more than they bargained for when they began digging beneath a San Diego home last year. Buried in the dirt: more than 400 gold and silver coins worth about $500,000.

But this is no case of finders keepers, at least for now. The plumber and his assistant find themselves in a legal battle over who owns the coins - they, the home's owners or the daughter of the doctor who built the dwelling almost a century ago.

The dispute began in October when a San Diego plumber, Serafin Trevino, and his girlfriend, Connie Moseley, were hired to repair a drainage line under the house owned by Alejandro Lopez Jr. and his wife, Angelica.

While digging, Mr. Trevino and Ms. Moseley found what they have described as eight rolls of gold coins buried a half-foot under the ground. The trove, which later was found to include silver coins, has been described as having "ancient vintage" coins dating to the 1840s.


The discovery is the talk of San Diego, a community of almost 5,000 people, 54 miles west of Corpus Christi, and has led to a lawsuit among the three parties claiming ownership. A court-appointed receiver has taken control of the coins and secured them in a San Diego safe deposit box.


GEORGE GONGORA / Corpus Christi Caller-Times
Serafin Trevino and Connie Moseley say that the coins they found are lost property and belong to them. The homeowners say the plumbers were digging in the wrong place. And the builder's daughter says the coins belonged to her father.


The parties in the dispute and their attorneys are no longer commenting on the case, for which no trial date has been set.

In their suit, filed in state district court in November, Mr. Trevino and Ms. Moseley claim that the coins are lost property and therefore belong to them. They also allege that Mr. Lopez used "misrepresentations, fraud and illegal threats" to force them to return the coins several days later.

In his response, Mr. Lopez says Mr. Trevino was hired to install a PVC line above an existing cast-iron drainage line and was specifically ordered not to dig out the existing line. He says Mr. Trevino, instead, dug several holes under his house that were not near the drainage line and that his "prospecting efforts" were unrelated to the work for which he was hired.

The dispute seemed simple enough. And then a third party joined the fray in December.

Gloria Garcia Lopez, a resident in nearby Alice, filed documents with the court claiming that her father, a San Diego physician who built the house, placed the coins there.

In her pleading, Ms. Garcia Lopez, a distant relative to Mr. Lopez, said that her father built his home and office in 1912 in the house now occupied by the couple.

She said her father later remodeled the home and added a built-in safe, two kitchens and an enclosed area with a trap door access under his office and kitchens.

The area under the house, she said, was used to store archives, personal valuables and money that, until at least 1933, consisted exclusively of gold and silver coins. It was from that area that Mr. Trevino removed the coins.

Her father married in 1924 and moved out of the house, giving it to his two unmarried sisters, she said. The doctor left valuables, gold coins and other personal belongings in the house and restricted its occupancy and ownership to immediate family members.

Ms. Garcia Lopez said in the filing that the house eventually fell into her hands when the last of her father's immediate family members died. She and her husband sold it in the 1970s to Mr. and Mrs. Lopez.

She said the house was sold to Mr. Lopez (her husband's godson and son of a first cousin) because the couple thought they could trust him until they could remove the coins. As a condition of the sale, she said, she was granted permission to return to the home to search for and take items from the doctor's safe and the enclosed area under the floor.

Legal doctrines


In most states, but not Texas, legal experts say the "treasure trove doctrine" might apply. It involves discovery of buried treasures hidden by explorers, pirates and others.


Under the treasure trove doctrine, "the people who find these buried treasures could keep it as opposed to the person who buried it in the first place," said James Curtis, an attorney and correspondent for Court TV.

But Texas recognizes the "mislaid-property doctrine," said Ron Welsh, an attorney for Vinson and Elkins in Houston, who said most cases such as this don't go to trial because the finder keeps quiet about the discovery.

"When a property is mislaid, it is presumed to be left in the custody of the next property owner," Mr. Welsh said. "The next property owner is entitled to the mislaid property against all others in the world - except the so-called rightful owner."

That's where the doctor's daughter, Ms. Garcia Lopez, may have a case.

"That must be her position, that the coins were mislaid and she is the rightful owner ... and that the husband's godson [Alejandro Lopez Jr.] is presumed to be custodian of that property for the rightful owner," Mr. Welsh said. "She can claim that she stands in her father's shoes and just because he died doesn't mean there are no more claimants."

Unlikely outcome


Mr. Curtis said the only way Mr. Trevino and Ms. Moseley would end up with the coins is if the court ruled that the coins were lost rather than misplaced - an unlikely outcome, he and Mr. Welsh believe.


If the court says the treasure was misplaced, Mr. Curtis said, it becomes a matter of deciding whether the current homeowners or the daughter of the doctor who built the house should receive the coins.

"It may turn into a wills and trusts question. ... The problem I see is this: How can you pass along something that you don't even know exists?" Mr. Curtis said.

Mr. Curtis said the claim by Ms. Garcia Lopez and her husband that they sold the house to Alejandro Lopez Jr. and his wife provided they could retrieve the doctor's possessions is valid only if it's in writing.

Mr. Welsh said the doctor's daughter must convince the court that her father buried the coins and forgot about them. Some might find that notion unlikely. How could anyone forget he had hidden more than 400 gold and silver coins?

"It happens more often than you'd think," said Janet Warford-Perry, managing editor of Lost Treasure magazine, a monthly publication devoted to treasure hunting.

She said people often lose valuables they've buried because they use landmarks to guide them back to the location and those guideposts change over time. The second most common reason they don't return for their valuables is because they forget they buried them in the first place.

Ms. Warford-Perry said some people, particularly Great Depression survivors, in tough times avoid banks and resort to hiding money at home.

"They will get anxiety in hard economic times and pull it [money] out and bury it or stash it in their homes."

She said women tend to bury money near the house, while men prefer barns and other buildings. The problem is that once they've hidden it they can't find it again.

"It is really not unusual when hunting around old homesteads," she said, "to find things stuffed everywhere."

Scott Williams is a Corpus Christi free-lance writer.

[jimmatt_43]

Great story,
I am a long way from being an expert,but I would think it would be the legal owner of the property who has legal claim to the coins.

[ericwt]

Sounds like the attorneys struck gold!

Keep your mouth shut if you find something big.

[jeff of pa]

Sounds like the attorneys struck gold!

That is for sure.

The longer they Drag it out in Court,
the more they will Make out.

[blurr]

Great story,
I am a long way from being an expert,but I would think it would be the legal owner of the property who has legal claim to the coins.

I agree with you.

The plumbers were contracted to do a job. If they removed an item not pertaining to the job contracted, it is theft. Unless specified in the property deed, all items (known and unknown) are transferred to the new owner.

It will be interesting to see how the Court rules on this.

There was no theft involved swr. If it were theft, only the plumbers would have known about it

John

[blurr]

I agree with you.

The plumbers were contracted to do a job. If they removed an item not pertaining to the job contracted, it is theft. Unless specified in the property deed, all items (known and unknown) are transferred to the new owner.

It will be interesting to see how the Court rules on this.

Hello?

Hello? Don't be such an old grouch. Just trying to make a joke. Lighten up swr, life is too short

John

[jeff of pa]

Serafin Trevino and Connie Moseley say that the coins they found are lost property and belong to them. The homeowners say the plumbers were digging in the wrong place. And the builder's daughter says the coins belonged to her father.



In their suit, filed in state district court in November, Mr. Trevino and Ms. Moseley claim that the coins are lost property and therefore belong to them. They also allege that Mr. Lopez used "misrepresentations, fraud and illegal threats" to force them to return the coins several days later.

Mr. Lopez Knew they had them ? How ?
Did he let them take them, then chang his mind ?
Did he know they were there & Check later ?
Did somone Brag to the Wrong People ?

IF he said take them, & then changed his mind,
No Theft Involved

.

In his response, Mr. Lopez says Mr. Trevino was hired to install a PVC line above an existing cast-iron drainage line and was specifically ordered not to dig out the existing line. He says Mr. Trevino, instead, dug several holes under his house that were not near the drainage line and that his "prospecting efforts" were unrelated to the work for which he was hired.

Sounds like he Knew they were there, and if True
some illegal or at least unscrupleous behavior involved.

She said the house was sold to Mr. Lopez (her husband's godson and son of a first cousin) because the couple thought they could trust him until they could remove the coins. As a condition of the sale, she said, she was granted permission to return to the home to search for and take items from the doctor's safe and the enclosed area under the floor.

also IF true, it would belong to her
not the Home Owner Or the Plumber.


Tuff call

My guess non will get it.
it will stay where it is.

[blurr]

In their suit, filed in state district court in November, Mr. Trevino and Ms. Moseley claim that the coins are lost property and therefore belong to them. They also allege that Mr. Lopez used "misrepresentations, fraud and illegal threats" to force them to return the coins several days later.

OK.

By the way, the Plumbers did remove the coins from the property. If they are licensed and bonded, they run the risk of losing their bond and having their license suspended.

If everyone knows about it, they must have told the landowner. Don't you think so? If they took them and bragged about it at the bar, then they are in trouble I would think. Either way, my guess is that the current landowner will get the booty. The plumbers should get some kind of finders fee, if I was the judge

John

[jeff of pa]

My guess non will get it.
it will stay where it is.

The article is from 2003...further research and a followup is due.

Thanks !
I forgot to let that sink in

I'll see If I can Find anything

[jeff of pa]

looks like maybe since 2002

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/799014/posts

[blurr]

looks like maybe since 2002

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/799014/posts

Well that article paints a little different picture than the other one.

John

[jeff of pa]

I tried several different Searches can't find anything
new. A few Spanish PDF Files,
But I can't open PDF to check them.

My guess the Money has been sold on EBay
by the Court :P

[pickaway]

I agree shut up & move on...

[Kneo]

The daughter of the doctor (who sold the house to the current owner) won the case against the new homeowner and the plumber.

Cliffnotes: The doctor who built the house told his daughter about the gold coins in the basement of the house. They tried for years to find it (with detector and shovels), but never did. She was to use the gold for her brother who required lifetime care. She sold the house in 1970 with a stipulation about the gold. New owners claim the gold was given to them and so they burried it. Plumber finds gold, sneaks it out of the house and takes it home. He sells a few coins. Owner checks on cache and discovers it is missing 10 days later, arrives at plumbers at midnight. Plumber claims his life was threatened, and returns gold. Case goes to court.

The case of "Joe the plumber finds gold" is closed. Keeper's wins versus finders.

http://www.4thcoa.courts.state.tx.us...pinionId=19039

[GringoStarr]

From the circumstances involved in the case, it appears the judge rendered the correct verdict. "in my opinion."

[GrayCloud]

Kneo, If all is as you described, I agree the judge called it right. The new homeowner is the bad boy here, as he knowingly tried to pull a scam.

[bama20a]

Now that just sucks,What happen to the Texas Trove law ,This was a case of who had the most money to start with.
so now it will all wind up going to Obama, ,Sure hope their ol' plumbing lines leak
By the way my comment was meant as a joke,,,,,,,,

[GrayCloud]

Hey Bama, I am with you as for sending money to the White House muslim.
From a Louisiana Boy, Sorry about last night.

[Skrimpy]

Another case of keep your stupid mouth shut, you big oaf.

[TheHarleyMan2]

What I don't get is "IF" the "LEGAL HIER" ("KNEW") about the gold and it being hidden in the house or property, "WHY SELL THE HOUSE TO BEGIN WITH?", ("IF"), the gold is there and "NOT" been found? That is ONE QUESTION I would CERTAINLY ASK and FIGHT!!!!!

If "MY FATHER" told me about some gold and silver hidden in the house and "I KNEW WHERE IT WAS" I CERTAINLY WOULD RECOVER IT, "OR", "IF" I couldn't remember where it was located I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T SELL THE HOUSE, UNTIL IT WAS FOUND! AND, if it wasn't found I would certainly KEEP SEARCHING. So my opinion is finders keepers split the coins with the "NEW HOME OWNERS"!

I am sorry but logic is reality here, WHY WOULD SOMEONE CLAIMED there father forgot about it, OR, my father told me about it and to use it to take care of a disabled half sibling and leave the coins there for the house to be sold later to someone else? I am sorry I am NOT buying either claim!

We ALL here want to find treasures and caches and we ALL KNOW what SOME would do and what OTHERS would do and especially what WE ALL WOULD DO if OUR parents or relatives told us about a cache of coins, etc, was buried and certainly NONE of us would sell the property KNOWING it is there and it was NOT found without finding it first!