Cache hunting vs. archaeologists

[coinshooter]

Found this article in a recent "Coin WOrld" magazine and thought it was a good one to throw out here.
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Hidden Caches

I have a comment about Robert Duncan?s ?Travesty, Tragedy? Guest Commentary
in the May 23 Issue of Coin World.
Mr. Duncan has obviously fallen for the archaeologists? misrepresentations of what value ?lost items? are.
We cannot learn anything about the history of any place because of ?where? some individual hid a ?cache? of coins 200 years ago!
The most a cache can tell you is where one person thought would be a good hiding place for his money!
Mr. Duncan has erroneously tried to relate biblical artifacts in situ with ruins of old historical sites with a non-historical person?s hidden cache.
These are entirely different things. The travesty and national tragedy is how the archaeologists try to convince people like him that it is a crime to find anything lost by someone in the past!
Would mr. Duncan turn over a $10 bill, found tangled in a bush beside an ?old? pathway, to an archaeologist so the scientist can ?study? what historical significance the money might have?
Archaeologists also have this ingenious statement they like to use: ?The artifacts must be left in the ground so everyone can enjoy them?! You can imagine what might be buried there even if nothing is there! It has to come out of the ground to be ?enjoyed?!
They just want you to stay away from the things they want to find!
I know of one site from 20 years ago where over 5000 artifacts were found.
A museum display of this great discovery had 12 items on display with no significant comments!
The other 5000 artifacts were still in the archaeologist?s possession!

R. Davidson
Address withheld.

 

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[MiddenMonster]

Mr. Duncan has obviously fallen for the archaeologists? misrepresentations of what value ?lost items? are.
We cannot learn anything about the history of any place because of ?where? some individual hid a ?cache? of coins 200 years ago!
The most a cache can tell you is where one person thought would be a good hiding place for his money!
Mr. Duncan has erroneously tried to relate biblical artifacts in situ with ruins of old historical sites with a non-historical person?s hidden cache.

Well, a cache can also tell you what kind of wealth was in the area at the time, the type of coins can tell you who was in the area at the time, and a cache of coins found in a site with other signs of habitation can tell you about the people there. But with that out of the way I say "tough sh!t" to the archeologists. Had the Elgin Marbles not been stolen by the Brits they would have been lost to history as Greece bounced between war and their Third World existence. Compare their condition to the condition of virtually any monument still in Greece. Some of the best finds are probably in private collections around the world, where they are being cared for by someone who values them personally and monetarily. These private collectors no doubt sell and trade these items among themselves. The only point the archeologists have is that they aren't available for everyone to "enjoy". Again, tough sh!t. If everyone should enjoy them then a museum can pay the market price for whatever artifacts they want to purchase. By the way, ever notice how the vast majority of a museum's holdings are locked away where no one can see them, and even the curators of the museum have no idea what they have? Unless you find human remains I still say sift, shovel and SHUT UP!. There's always a way to convert a valuable item into cash. It just takes patience and a bit of thinking. Have a cache of 200+ coins you want to sell? Hey, it's been passed down in your family for years. I once heard a financial planner railing against stamp and coin collections as investments. He said they're great investments--for the heirs. Most people with a collection never sell it. They die and the heirs take possession of it, but have no interest in it so they cash it in. If I found a cache of coins I'd probably use that cover story if I sold the collection. The older you are the better the "been in the family for generations" story works.

 

[coinshooter]

Right on Midden Monster.
I generally agree with everything you said.
I posted this because of this link:

http://www.newsok.com/video/1555052/

It just get's up my gall. Our stupid gov't needs a severe kick in the butt.

The last sentence makes no sense.
"The army corp of engineers says they don't want anyone digging there because someone might accidentally dig up indian artifacts"

Well, if they issued permits or had someone with them to watch over them than this wouldn't happen would it?
How about the idea that others might actually like to see what was dug up?

 

[stoney56]

CS, I know that the Corp of Engineers doesn't really say anything about people picking up the artifacts along the shoreline below the dam. There are several items of interest above the dam though that they get a case of PMS about. One is a fenced off No Trespassing-haul off and throw away the key about if caught. It contains the remains of an old French fort that was in existance well before 1750 that Archies have dug twice that I'm aware of. You can find a little info about it in a book by Steve Wilson called "Oklahoma Treasures and Treasure Tales" pages 12-14. It is now fenced and gates locked and patroled. The brush and stuff is so tall now that a 2-story house will literally disappear in there. Another reason is that when the lake was built, there were some small towns that were bought up, people moved, and the land flooded. This part started in 1968 and the lake was filled in the early mid 1970's. They claimed that the cemetaries were dug and remains removed to other cemetaries nearby. I know for a fact that they left some because when the lake floods and goes down, there were bones and casket parts scattered along the shoreline and you could look up and see some of the casket remains sticking out of the bank and were stacked 2 and 3 high in places.
BTW, I'm glad you enjoyed the news link. I was up at 6AM and saw it on the tv, watched it, and jumped on their webpage to se if it was available yet. Take care and HH

 

[labato]

rchaeologists are but the ungrateful children of the treasure hunter. The head of the museum of Fort Sill, Okla. told a group I was with the story of two men in the museum looking for a given map and he surmised they were treasure hunters so he told them that the museum didn't have such a map though he knew better he just didn't want to help any treasure hunters. Keep this in mind whenever you are seeking information in a strange place.

 

[Capt. Buzzkill]

I agree as well. Don't ever turn your back on these government supported grave robbers. It is all about their hidden personal agenda. Promotions, grants, and glory....and at your expense. The arrogance of these people amaze even me. So...keep the gold and turn over any artifacts to the museum of YOUR choice..and anonymously. Keep digging... 8)

 

[coinshooter]

I suppose you could find someone who was in the Army Corp of Engineers and had access to the land. Then you just recruit them to help you or let you know when it was "safe" to search. Detectors don't find bones anyway. 8)

 

[Darren in NC]

Truth is they need us. Many archaeological sites were initially found by treasure hunters. Then they get chased away afterwards since they are not "experts."

And we need them, too. Who wants to destroy valuable pottery/artifacts while ramming a shovel in the ground to get to the gold? It's done everyday in South America around burial mounds. We need to find a way to work together. So ask around. I have been in contact with many archies who don't mind working together. There are still a few Robert Marx's around

 

[coinshooter]

Do you really believe some archy is going to let you walk off with anything you find while working with them?
Hah! That's a good joke!

 

[Darren in NC]

Yes, CS, I do. Not all archies work for a university or museum. Some do it as a hobby and love thunting, too. These are the ones I will be working with. I know two, male and female, who would be willing to go with me. I tend to agree with you overall if you're talking about archaeology as a profession. They have certain interests and agendas to uphold. But I look for creative ways to bypass those arenas and accomplish the same thing.

 

[lenin1946]

Found this article in a recent "Coin WOrld" magazine and thought it was a good one to throw out here.
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Ah the archeologists! They just don't want to change history. They have even said that there is no gold or silver in Arkansas. Yeah right! I have found played out silver mines, flake gold in several creeks! Then they tell me no Spanish were ever in Northern Arkansas. Its really a shame they dislike treasure hunters so much that they will not give correct info.

 

[day dreamer]

I think ther needs to be a law passed that would help us all with our passion for metal detecting endeavors .Being coin shoting, releck hunting ,gold prospecting,or what ever. That will give us the right as the same as any educated archeologist.After all we are also archeologist our selfs . we just dont have a college degree saying so.I say we should start our own group and membership of archeologist an detectorsist society of america.To me we bring forth the old finds more than the educated hunters do.

 

[tallpaul]

if it wasent for us detectorists the archies would have little to go on,,, over here in england its us detectorists who find something,, report to the museum to see if they want to buy,,, then the archies are in,, and the site is scheduled, then nobody can detect that land untill they have cleaned it out,, and even the museums dont put it all on display,, and i dont know if alot know this, but some stuff they put on show isent the reall mc,coy the real stuff is in the vault and what you see is a replica it sucks,, archies can kiss my a**ssssssss, id never work with em,, ive said this before and i'll say it again,, archies are jealous that we get the value they dont,, its in there contract, they get paid little this is why they try to get us kept away,, and as for robbinson over here on time team and aston,, of which robbinson on national tv said us detectorists were the thieves of the land, he can go suck eggs,,,....

 

[Darren in NC]

As usual, there is good and bad in all camps. I know some treasure hunters I'd never work with and I just met another maritime archaeologist who I'd love to work with. His first major project was with the Atocha years ago and now he's a state archaeologist - great guy. Never say never...

 

[tallpaul]

we all have are own views, and personnel reasons why we say certain things,, there are a couple of detectorists i now i wouldent hunt with too,, but thats a personal thing,, but like i say archies never, you'll never get ya gold workin with an archie, that i do know,, well here in england anyway, i cant speak for the states,, hell archies may be so much better than they are here,,.

 

[Larry KS]

A few years ago, I sat across the table for a full day from an archie that had once been the head archie for the USFS and still held a high position. I was trying to convince him of allowing us to adapt the same idea that was used in the U. K. He said that the reason the British archies changed their M.O. was because there was almost NO public land in England, all of it was private property. Consequently, they had no way to get their grubby little hands on the artifacts unless they allowed the detectorists to dig them and hand them over. Over here, we have almost a half billion acres that they can control so why bother letting us have anything.

 

[Surrender the Booty]

Do not even get involved with the Army Corps. of Engineers. They violate the rules and do whatever they want with no forthought.
In New York State Waterways they are in the process of dredging a major waterway to find about $6,000,000.00 in Silver Bullion that was lost in 1903 in the Kill Van Kull that was imported from Mexico by the Guggenheim's and was being taken to a smelter in Jersey City on a barge that was being pulled by the Tugboat Canoga owned by the Lehigh Valley Railroad. New York has refused Permits to various companies to search for this lost silver. Environmental groups have also stopped some companies from being granted permits due to Extremely HIGH Concentrations of Carcinogens and other TOXIC CHEMICALS on the bottom that would disrupt the whole area around New York City, New Jersey, The Raritan Bay, Hudson River and Long Island. The Army Corp DOES NOT CARE and is dredging under the guise of improving the shipping lanes. This is a total lie. It's just to override the ploy that has been used for years to stop people/companies from retrieving the SILVER. NOW they are retrieving it themselves but have no concern whatsoever in stirring up the sediment and doing irreparable ecological damage to the environment. Typical Govt. disregard for the people and everything else except what they want to do.
Check this out yourself don't take my word for it. It's public information. Look up Newspaper Article Staten Island Register Nov/17/1983 "Silver Miner Face Opposition" & The New York Times Sat. Oct. 17, 1903 "Fished in Secret for $100,000.00 Treasure". Also contact Mr. Lou Figurelli, Pres. of NATURAL RESOURCES PROTECTIVE ASSOCIATION. Again your GOVT. in action!

 

[Honest Samuel]

While this is a old forum, I feel a need to response. I believe that Archaeologists are really treasure hunters. I believe, we, treasure hunters are entitle to find water and buried treasures, and share with the owners, and pay our income taxes, and support our families, and enjoy the hunt.

 

[TroutBumDave]

Old thread, but I still run into this crap on a daily basis. How many of you people *****ing about archaeologists have a degree in archeaology or anthropology? None of you? Shocking. I put you in the same category of people who think that vaccinations cause autism. Is it possible that the people who go to school for 4 to 6, even 10 years probably know more about things than you do? The world isn't against your TH'ing. We all want the same thing, which is why we do what we do. Educate yourselves instead of just crying about it. 9/11 wasn't an inside job, the Boston Marathon was not a false flag, Sandy Hook wasn't a bunch of actors, and archeaologist's aren't out to F you over.

</rant>

 

[Honest Samuel]

Old thread, but I still run into this crap on a daily basis. How many of you people *****ing about archaeologists have a degree in archeaology or anthropology? None of you? Shocking. I put you in the same category of people who think that vaccinations cause autism. Is it possible that the people who go to school for 4 to 6, even 10 years probably know more about things than you do? The world isn't against your TH'ing. We all want the same thing, which is why we do what we do. Educate yourselves instead of just crying about it. 9/11 wasn't an inside job, the Boston Marathon was not a false flag, Sandy Hook wasn't a bunch of actors, and archeaologist's aren't out to F you over.

</rant>

Nobody has written comments for many years on this forum. That is why I wrote my comments, which I stand by. While the world is not out to F treasure hunters, it seem that archaeologist does. I have been a treasure hunter since 1964, and research more history books then you ever did. Do not insult me about Sandy Hook, because the story is true and I live in Connecticut. I have no need for archaeologists, but I do share my information with town and city libraries and history associations. I support my family with my finds, pay state and federal income taxes, and share with the poor. Tell us all what you and your friends do with the treasures that you all find. I take all the vaccinations that my doctors order. I cry over 9/11, and Sandy Hook victims, but not over your kind.