Buried Gold in California

[cudamark]

Please continue!

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Cry Of The Eagle: History And Legends Of The Cherokee Indians And Their Buried Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[Tom_in_CA]

Hi Mark. I'm a docent at Carmel mission (lead 4th grader tours, etc...). I'm one of their token Protestant docents. So I have nothing philosphically or theologically at stake here (ie.: bias, etc...), since I'm not even a Catholic. I just signed up d/t I love history. (And it's gotten me into some great hunt sites, doh!).

But when this flap got in the news starting a year or two ago, it just broke my heart to hear these things. Even though I have nothing personally vested, it just felt like more of an attack on any sort of Christian faith from the git-go. Because notice a lot of the accusations, although centered around Serra himself, invariably end up being simply an attack on either a) the mission system or the missionaries IN GENERAL (ie.: how DARE you step foot on our shores, and how DARE you think to set up a church here , blah blah). or b) the church in general. As if, anyone, therefore, who associates himself with said-church, is therefore culpable, evil, stupid for attending, and all their leaders now (even though 200+ yrs. removed) are all equally evil, hypocrites, etc...

I know they don't come right out and say those things, but you know full-well, that it's more than just an attack on a singular character/person. He is only a lightening rod for indian sympathizers. So, ok, sure, maybe all of us evil white man should never had set foot on the shores here, eh? Let's all go back to Europe, eh ? But it's quite another thing to take pot-shots that need MUCH MORE historical scrutiny, than the "sound-bites" they shoot at this subject .

Sorry for the rant, but I just hate the "take-away" that this "missions were evil slavery institutions". I wrote an article for our mission docent archives on the subject. I'll see if I can post the PDF link of it here. However, this thread was never started for that reason. Nor has the bfloyd responded (despite my pm'ing him to alert him that I'd posted a reply to his).

 

[sjvalleyhunter]

Hey Tom, this is a bit off topic but I figured if anyone knows the answer, you will. This past weekend my wife and I went to dinner at Mission Ranch in Carmel which is located just behind the Carmel mission. With such a historic past, I started wondering if the mission grounds have ever been detected.

It's been a while since I've been there, but if I recall correctly there is also a large grassy area in front of the mission at San Juan Bautista. I would assume that this area along with other areas around the missions may hold some history that could be found.

Yes, yes, I fully realize that these are historic landmarks and there are a plethora of laws / rules / regulations against such activities, and I'm certainly not advocating anyone do a covert midnight hunt. Some even consider it blasphemy to detect church grounds. BUT, I was wondering if, perhaps even with the mission’s approval, there have ever been any attempts by detectorists to unearth any of the artifacts that may be on these properties. If so, what of significance was found?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...With such a historic past, I started wondering if the mission grounds have ever been detected....

Yes, they have been hunted before. I have hunted them (a certain specific zone only, in just a singular garden area that was about to under-go renovation/dirt movement). Through my docent connections I got permission for myself and 7 or 8 md'ing buddies. We got a phoenix button, a reale, a seated, a period medallion , green copper, various nicknacks, and modern junk. The period items were all donated to the mission.

I also got underneath the Crespi Hall, with permission (it's got a crawl space underneath) and found a reale under there. So that's a total of 2 reales I've found at Carmel mission. Not sure where my stuff ended up after I gave it to them.

Other than that time, I know of a fellow who, back in the 1980s at some point, was personal friends (golfing buddies) with the priest on-duty at that time. He got the go-ahead to md, and found a reale, some buttons, etc....

And I know of someone else who got in to hunt back in the '80s or '90s there. And they got at least 1 reale, but I don't know what all else. Some reales & period buttons have been found in the surrounding area. Like for example in the little-league field park 1/2 block to the east. And a phoenix button got found very close to the mission ranch Inn (@ the dirt road that leads back to the carmel river bottom land back there).

....It's been a while since I've been there, but if I recall correctly there is also a large grassy area in front of the mission at San Juan Bautista. I would assume that this area along with other areas around the missions may hold some history that could be found. ...

That grass in front of mission SJB is all modern fill. The actual ground level is a foot or more down. So there's no way anyone's ever gonna get any mission period coins from there, unless they doze off with heavy equipment

They did scrape off the grass once, about 25 yrs. ago. Just for purposes of re-sodding with new turf. I got in on that with "high expectations". But that's when I found out it was all modern grass. No mission period targets forthcoming. And at one point, for some target, I had dug 10 or 12" down, and hit the REAL level. That's when I realized that it was all fill. HOWEVER, that grass/fill dates to the 1950s (or '40s?), so I did find something like 15 silver coins (mercs, roosies, washington, a franklin half, etc..), and scores of wheaties. Because there's been legions of people who picnic on that grass, so you can imagine how much coins get in that. But alas, all modern silver at the oldest.

There are other areas in SJB environs (that I'm not at liberty to disclose) that gave up some 7 or more gold coins (2 of them to me ), lots of reales and early seateds, old foreign coins from the 1700s, lots of phoenix buttons, etc.... But those spots got worked to smithereens by now.

.......Yes, yes, I fully realize that these are historic landmarks and there are a plethora of laws / rules / regulations against such activities...

Depends on which mission you're talking about. And what exact area around the mission. With the exception of La Purisima, they are all church property. So the mission personnel can do whatever the heck they want with them (allow an md'r there, etc....). I know of many instances of person's getting permission to detect them (whether that went through the highest-up channels of approval, versus some lowling granting permission for that which he didn't fully understand, I can not comment )

At SJB, there are some portions of that one (the grass quad in front, for example) that is state owned historic park. Thus for that, I suppose you're correct (if you asked enough questions of enough archies).

And also you've got to "think outside the box" when it comes to detecting them: The human easy instinct is to think you need/have to get up close to the mission walls, structure, church, etc...., right ? In which case, sure, you bump into the property ownership issues. Sure. However, you have to remember that the missions, at their zenith, could have had hundreds, and in some cases up to thousands of resident indians. Hence they were like small towns almost. The indians would live in rancherias either in their ancestral ways, or some even had housing units (adobe huts or whatever), that could have stretched out up-to-blocks away from the mission remains that you see now. And so the population of indians (who would have received trade items, coins, trinkets, buttons, etc.... ) could have been a block, or two, or 3 away. And so what might be a seemingly innocuous innocent vacant lot, or lettuce field, or cow pasture, or someone's back yard, etc... might hold mission period artifacts.

So it pays to study where other ancillary buildings, hunts, dwellings, etc... were adjacent to the church. The church itself is the "eye-magnet" now, of course, since that's all that survives. But back "in the day", the compounds and population were spread about in various directions, concentrations, etc....

You owe me $20 for that. I take paypal

 

[sjvalleyhunter]

Wow, that information was worth $20. Unfortunately I spent all my money on that darned dinner at Mission Ranch. [emoji16]

I do appreciate the info though. For some reason I was under the impression that the missions themselves were state owned. It makes sense that period artifacts can be found a good distance away from the churches, considering the sheer number of dwellings, etc, that were established the area back in the late 1700s when the missions were started. Again, thank you for the info.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

SJvalley-hunter, next time you do dinner at the mission ranch inn, holler at me. My wife & I will meet you over there (that's her favorite place to dine), and I'll take you through the mission museums (docents can bring folk through for free). The I can point out to you where targets were found.

There's also a great display of "dug artifacts" in one of the museum rooms (the "Downie museum"). Coins, buttons, medallions, etc.... that were mostly found during the construction of the parochial school during the late '40s or early '50s when that was built. There's old photographs showing that they sifted all (or sample portions anyhow), of the dirt that was removed from the ground, prior to the building of the school. It was built on the exact footprint of the original mission quadrangle buildings. Thank goodness they had the presence of mind to sift for items at that time. I can only imagine how much a person would have found, if he could go back in time with a metal detector during that process. Doh!

 

[sjvalleyhunter]

I will definitely take you up on that offer. We get over to Carmel typically a couple of times a year, and when we do we enjoy eating at Mission Ranch. The early history of California has always fascinated me so I would love to see some artifacts from its early days. Thanks!