Stonewall Jackson

[Monty]

I am reading the first of a series of 3 Civil War chronicles by Shelby Foote. I won the first volume at a club hunt and my wife bought me the other two for my birthday. It is very good reading and gives most of the political ramifications leading up to various battles. He really makes Stonewall Jackson look like a nincompoop! From his description of Jackson's actions he appears to be experiencing dementia. He does things like laying down under a tree and taking a 3 hr. nap when he is supposed to be moving his troops into place for a battle, etc. So far in my reading he has caused the Confederate Army to lose two battles because he was goofing off somewhere when he was supposed to be engaging the enemy. Has anyone else read up on Stonewall and is this the opinion expressed by other authors? Monty

[buscadero]

Monty, I hav'nt read the books, but I would hate to think that one of my heros was incompetent. He's been listed as the 4th best Conf. Gen. behind Forrest, R.E. Lee, & Cleburne. Keep reading, maybe he redeems himself. Did you know he had a cousin, Maj. Gen. William L. Jackson nicknamed "Mudwall". Don't know why tho.

[Michelle]

"Mudwall" (EASY GOING, COWARDLY,NOT STRONG) "Stonewall" (STRONG, UNMOVED, STRAIGHTFORWARD,)

[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

Monty,

not really a Stonewall buff,

But I have heard many comments that he was not all
that many make him out to be.

Death is one way to achieve immortality.
http://ca.geocities.com/onccwrtable@...m/octobr97.htm

have a good un............

[buscadero]

Michelle: You never fail to amaze me W/ your wit & knowledge. By the way, Happy 1K Posts!

Monty: The only detrimental things I can find are, He was a hypochondriac, frequently fell into a trance-like state, & was prone to talk to himself.


Keep us informed as you read.

Joe

[Kentucky Kache]

I guess if I were shot by my own men, I wouldn't be
in any hurry to lead them into battle either.

[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

Michelle: You never fail to amaze me W/ your wit & knowledge. By the way, Happy 1K Posts!

Monty: The only detrimental things I can find are, He was a hypochondriac, frequently fell into a trance-like state, & was prone to talk to himself.


Keep us informed as you read.

Joe

Sounds like he would have been a metal detectorist if
they had been invented at that time

For sure, would have been on T Net

all have a good un...........

[Gribnitz]

From what I read, he was pretty much a religous zealot. Really put his trust in faith when riding the battle field and directing his men, which is one reason he has the reputation he has. He feared nothing. Jackson was really an eccentric fellow, but a lot of the great generals were.

[Monty]

The author says one of his peers reportedly gave him the name "Stonewall" when he went into one of his trances and just stood there when he was supposed to be reinforcing his flank. He reportedly said, "Where the hell is Jackson's troops? He is just standing there like a stonewall!" Don't know if that's fact, but that's what the author reports. At this point early in the war, Lee is pretty put out with him. When Lee had MCclellen cornered Jackson failed to show and cut off his flank allowing McClellen and the Army of the Potomac to escape. Lee reports to Jefferson Davis that he could have captured the Northern capital if his generals would obey orders. As it was McClellen and his army escaped to a river where their retreat was covered by several gunboats and nearly 6,000 confederate soldiers were killed. The Union troops lost about 4600 troops but had over a hudred thousand to begin with. Lee only had around 60,000 but still ran him nealy all the way back to Washington D.C. Lincoln is put out with McClellen for turning tail and not standing and fighting and is about to relieve him of command. Thus far in the book, that's where we are. Monty

[Michelle]

"Monty: The only detrimental things I can find are, He was a hypochondriac, frequently fell into a trance-like state, & was prone to talk to himself."
So, that's why he stood like a STONEWALL.....? And yes his own men shot him because....HE FINALLY MOVED....!!!

[buscadero]

Monty: The only shortcomings I've been able to research were Stonewalls conduct @ The 7 Days Battles ,which I believe you were alluding to.
Apparently, He was frequently late, seemed lethargic, & missed a grand opportunity to change the outcome of the war.


I personally feel that his leadership & tactical brilliance at 1st & 2d Bull Run & Fredricksburg more than made up for these brief periods of slackness.,

[Michelle]

Michelle: You never fail to amaze me W/ your wit & knowledge. By the way, Happy 1K Posts!

Really cool.....Thank you do I get an award now? 8)

[Mighty AP]

I am reading the first of a series of 3 Civil War chronicles by Shelby Foote. I won the first volume at a club hunt and my wife bought me the other two for my birthday. It is very good reading and gives most of the political ramifications leading up to various battles. He really makes Stonewall Jackson look like a nincompoop! From his description of Jackson's actions he appears to be experiencing dementia. He does things like laying down under a tree and taking a 3 hr. nap when he is supposed to be moving his troops into place for a battle, etc. So far in my reading he has caused the Confederate Army to lose two battles because he was goofing off somewhere when he was supposed to be engaging the enemy. Has anyone else read up on Stonewall and is this the opinion expressed by other authors? Monty

"Monty: The only detrimental things I can find are, He was a hypochondriac, frequently fell into a trance-like state, & was prone to talk to himself."
So, that's why he stood like a STONEWALL.....? And yes his own men shot him because....HE FINALLY MOVED....!!!

Maybe I am Stonewall re-encarnated..........I seem to experience dementia from time to time, Im always on TN goofing off or takin a 3 hour nap when I should be "moving the troops" or mowing the lawn, I frequently fall into a trance like state (usually after a couple 12 packs!) & I talk to myself all the time! Could it be

[PBK]

It's interesting how the pendulum swings between extremes of historical revision. An individual glorified by one generation is vilified by the next, often solely on the basis of personal bias or sheer conjecture in both cases. We seem willing to accept our presidents, generals, and other leaders only as mythic heroes or miserable villains— never as ordinary people very much like ourselves. As Don Wyclif has written, "Heroes are only human. Their noble deeds inspire, as they should. Their ignoble deeds make clear that even the greatest human is no god." General Jackson was no deity incarnate... but he wasn't the village idiot, either.

[buscadero]

AP: If you're anywhere near any wooded area & hear the words, "Halt! Who goes there"? Better duck then. Deja Vous?

[Mighty AP]

DONT SHOOT, DONT SHOOT! WE'RE ON THE SAME DAMN SIDE!

[Heavy Chevy]

Hello Gang,

While i am sure that Stonewall Jackson wasn't perfect, as i understand he was a teacher at West Point when the war started. Seems he must have had some smarts about him. And if Lee respected him and his abilities, that is more than good enough for me.

Take Care,

Just my 2 confederate cents,

Mike in SC

[MichaelB]

I think Lee's actions and words help shed some light on this subject:

As Lee took over command in Virginia he sent Gen Jackson to Harpers Ferry which was considered the most dangerous post. Most of Jackson's troops had no guns.

Lee gave Jackson reinforcements after the battle at Kernstown. Jackson then attacked Gen Banks at Front Royal and Winchester sending the Union lines in full retreat. Lee knew this could be a decisive battle.

Lee asked Jackson to lead the flank attack on Gen Hooker at Chancellorsville. Lee was a proficient writer of letters to family and friends. It is obvious from his correspondence that he trusted and admired Jackson. On the flank march most of the men had not eatenand many fell from shear weakness. Dr. Humer McGuire, saw Jackson that day and wrote " Never can I forget the eagerness and intensity of Jackson on that March......His face was pale, his eyes flashing. Out from his thin lips came the terse command: Press Forward, Press forward!".

As Lee is told of Jackson injuries from friendly fire it is described as follows:

Lee shook his head, groaning a little. :"Ah Captain(Wilbourn)" he said. "any victory is dearly bought that takes General Jackson from us, even for a short while".

In a dispatch to Lee after learning that Jacksons arm had been amputated (fyi a stone in a field still marks where the arm wasburied), he wrote:

General:_ I have just received your note, informing me that you were wounded. I cannot express my regret at the occurrence. Could I have directed events, I would have chosen for the good of the country to be disabled in your stead.

After Jackson death on May 11, Lee wrote to his wife ".....you will see we have to mourn the loss of the great and good Jackson. Any victory would be dear at such a price.....I know not how to replace him. God's will be done...".

The name Stonewall came from South Carolina Gen Bee right before he fell in battle.He pointed to Jackson and said "There stands Jackson like a Stonewall!" Jackson had refused to retreat and rallied the CS troops during the battle.

Lee knew who he could trust and who he couldn't. I think his words and actions give us a much better understanding of Stonewall Jackson. Who else (past or present)was in a better position to judge?

MichaelB

[buscadero]

Well Done Mike! You seem to have done a little reading too. Is there any subject more interesting than the CW? Not counting TH'ing, of course.

[gldhntr]

continuous 40-50 mile marches without much sleep and very little food will have a tendency to make a person lethargic...throw in the worries of conducting your troops to everyones high expectations, all the while wondering when some yank is going to step out of behind a tree and shoot at you......the hypochondria and talking to himself most likely the result of sucking lemons.....battle studies show jackson, on almost all accounts to have been a brilliant tactician..he failed a couple times to live up to expectations same as lee...lee was a defensive expert, but failed on offensive battles like gettysburg, which if handled differently could have ended in a great victory........either jackson or lee though seemed quite ready and willing to take on twice their number or more in battle with no qualm, and most often not only defeated their foe, but ran them from the field.......balls and brains i think were the main cause of many of the victories for the south, as they were outnumbered most of the time, often by armies twice their size or larger...........gldhntr