Second Seminole War! No Seminole war category so this goes in civil war :)

[Guest 1551]

These are several artifacts i've dug up on my property over the past year and a half that date to the Second Seminole War. I've already recovered 1,500 artifacts and still have much more area to dig up. There was most likely a soldier encampment on my property during the SSW.

 

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[GatorBoy]

 

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[Guest 1551]

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Very interesting!

 

[GatorBoy]

Definitely Second Seminole War. Many forts surrounded the area where i live. I found the pipe face and two tavern pipe stem fragments. no bowls yet. i dont have ant military buttons yet but all the artifacts i've found date in the time period for the SSW. Not to mention all the artifacts i've found in a very small area suggest an army encampment. I along with every other expert who has seen my collection or pieces of the collection is person strongly agree with the theory of a SSW campsite. Btw i see all those stems in the background of your photo! Dang thats a heck of alot of pipe fragments! you lucky dog!

I just want to point out a few things... I know you said you have spoken with experts.. but you are sorta speaking to one now...
I agree some of the items (pewter undergarment buttons,musket balls and a coin) date to the period but nothing is military.
You said you found a privy as well as loads of nails..you also said you have found 1500 artifacts...not one military related??...sounds like a homestead to me not a military camp.

 

[Guest 1551]

I just want to point out a few things... I know you said you have spoken with experts.. but you are sorta speaking to one now...
I agree some of the items (pewter undergarment buttons,musket balls and a coin) date to the period but nothing is military.
You said you found a privy as well as loads of nails..you also said you have found 1500 artifacts...not one military related??...sounds like a homestead to me not a military camp.

800 are nails. Probably closer to 1200 artifacts in all. Im scrunched between a 10-12 mile radius of three SSW forts. There were not many settlements/homesteads in the area in 1840. You have to remember that I found a very nice gold gilted button made by Scovils between 1827-1840 (I'm sure you know all about Scovils) I highly doubt anyone in the Tally area had money to afford a button like this back then. Though it does not have a design I believe it may have fallen off a officers coat (not one issued by the government but his regular clothing. A button of this beauty would have shown wealth which as said before, there wasn't much here then.) I'm gonna go dig. I'll let you know if I find anything plus remember I found a flippin sword fragment. Tell me that's not military!

 

[GatorBoy]

The Scoville button... flat brass no? civilian right?
Best of luck to you..
I'm not trying to bust your chops at all.. I'm just going by what you have shown here.. and giving you my honest assessment based on my experience.

 

[Guest 1551]

The Scoville button... flat brass no?
Best of luck to you..
I'm not trying to bust your chops at all.. I'm just going by what you have shown here.. and giving you my honest assessment based on my experience.

No, it's definitely gold. I've found three brass buttons. I know which are brass and this is gold

 

[GatorBoy]

What does the other side look like?
Have you I.D.'d the botton?

 

[Guest 1551]

What does the other side look like?
Have you I.D.'d the botton?

Yes it's been ID'd it was made by Scovil between 1827-1840. Another perfect date for the SSW. Look in my album. There are pictures of more artifacts and the front of the button.

 

[GatorBoy]

That's a very nice button.
I hope you find some great artifacts on that site.. hopefully some military.
The button is the most diagnostic so far..and its civilian.
There's no doubt in my mind these are all period items.. just not thinking military.
I hope so..if that's what you think.
Look forward to seeing what else you find.

 

[Guest 1551]

Being Seminole War doesn't necessarily mean it would have had lots of military grade artifacts. It could have been 5-10 guys who were stationed in the area who wore regular clothing because it was much more sensible. One historian who i'm personal friends with told me about one officer who ditched his uniform and military gun for his own clothing and gun. So if an officer did, why not countless privates? Did I mention i've found two pieces of hardtack? Should have said that earlier. That's military food! I've never heard of civilians eating that crap. Not saying there weren't, but i've never heard of it.

 

[Guest 1551]

I've only excavated maybe a 1/20 of the area on my own property i want to dig. Plus there is the neighbors property who sometime i shall hopefully ask for permission. And I do know the location of a fort so hopefully i'll be digging there also this winter and turning up military buttons. I also found a fired percussion cap if that matters.

 

[GatorBoy]

In case you don't already know..
Gold gilt was designated for artillery and silver for infantry.
... on military buttons that is...
I suppose one could imagine any military member deciding to wear civilian clothing.... that leaves alot to the imagination and I tend to look at fact.
I looked at your posts in the "friendly" forum also... I can tell you want it to be military pretty badly .. but they are nice artifacts regardless.
.. And yes the percussion cap does matter.. It would date that site In the period of the Third Seminole War.
Like Fort Meade.

 

[GatorBoy]

Here are some items from that fort.
In the bottom row of buttons there are gold "plated" gilt buttons.

 

[Guest 1551]

the internet says percussion caps were invented circa 1825. so they could have been used in the SSW correct? ill say more later, have to run right now.

 

[Lester Olive]

These are several artifacts i've dug up on my property over the past year and a half that date to the Second Seminole War. I've already recovered 1,500 artifacts and still have much more area to dig up. There was most likely a soldier encampment on my property during the SSW.

What town do you live in ?

 

[GatorBoy]

Every second Seminole war site I've been on they were using Flint.
The soldiers didn't really buy into the idea of percussion caps at that time..they were far too likely to loose them as compared to a trusty Flint in the cock.



But By the time the Third Seminole War came around.. that really wasn't a war, just a time of high tension and threat that came about after some attacks on homesteaders the main one being in Fort Pierce.. you see alot of percussion caps.

 

[Guest 1551]

I just realized that two white buttons of mine that my dad and I assumed to be plastic are actually porcelain buttons! I assume to be from underware, correct?

 

[Guest 1551]

Anyways man, you're the only one who has ever even suggested this is not an SSW site. I have shown the artifacts to people who have written books on the SSW, conservators, self-made experts, detectorists and historians. I'm still utterly convinced its SSW, if you were here and saw maps of where I live and the surrounding area you would probably change your mind. Eventually I'll find something that will change your mind Why would a civilian have a sword and hardtack? Not to mention all the artifacts I've dated all fall into place for the SSW.

 

[GatorBoy]

I just realized that two white buttons of mine that my dad and I assumed to be plastic are actually porcelain buttons! I assume to be from underware, correct?

This is what the undergarment buttons looked like.
Pewter.
You have no idea the age of the blade.. That could have easily been a family heirloom From the war of 1812.
I guess I will be the only one out on a limb Since so many experts already agree with you.. That's fine I've done my research.
You have items that date to the period.. None of them can be tied to any military Connection at this point... and the button you just mentioned is civillian also.
I just see what I see.

 

[Guest 1551]

oh im not saying it was a military button, i was just saying im pleased i've added two more buttons to the collection, i know the government didnt issue the underwear there are such things though as porcelain undergarment/underwear buttons. Its possible the sword could was a heirloom, but the fact that its broken doesn't suggest it was treated as such. This is a heavy duty piece of metal we're talking about, not easily broken unless by severe force. Also, as previously said, what about the hardtack?